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NYC rock

As usual, you dance around the original question and situation...WHY ARE MORE HISPANIC FORMATS POPPING UP WHEN THESE SO CALLED PEOPLES YOU SAY ARE ENGLISH FLUENT AND ACCEPT AMERICAN WAYS, then they should accept English formats instead of full time Hispanic, but they never will they just want their language.

BigA suggested you delve into sociology to understand what is going on around you. That is good advice.

In broad strokes, first generation immigrants do not lose the ability to speak their first language. They may acquire an ability to speak a second language, and some even become fully bilingual.

Remember, being bilingual is not just being able to speak, even with some proficiency, a second language. Being truly bilingual means being able to think in that language and speak it without translating from the dominant language to the second tongue. Most people we think of as "bilingual" are not, in the truest sense, bilinguals.

Language acquisition skills decline at around the time of puberty... in late childhood. By full adulthood, the ability to become fully bilingual is very much reduced. So immigrants, who arrive most commonly at between 18 and 30 years of age, have vastly reduced abilities to learn English. So whether it be Mandarin or Tagalog or Farsi or Spanish, few ever become truly bilingual.

Music tastes generally are formed in early adolescence. So those arriving as late teens or young adults will not for the most part suddenly start liking music forms that are far removed from their formative years. A person from Colombia who grew up on cumbia and vallenato and salsa is not going to like most forms of rock, particularly those that were not well exposed in their homeland; alternative rock is one of those "foreign" types of music.

So the person who gets here at age 19 or 20 will keep their language dominance forever. If that person is Hispanic, Speaking Spanish will always be easier than speaking English, even if they become relatively proficient. The exceptions would be with persons who were exposed in school and at home to English and other languages... usually persons from the upper and upper-middle class income levels. But those are the least likely to emigrate from the homeland as they will be better off where they were born than in the US unless political upheavals give no choice.

And people's musical tastes will perhaps modify a bit over time, but they will not totally change, no matter how much they culturally assimilate into American life.

But the second generation is a bridge... they like some of the old ways, and speak Spanish when appropriate. But most lean towards English and English language music and radio. Nielsen gives us tons of information that proves this every single month.

You either are bull headed or just don't get it. You stated the other European ethnics converted to English so there unique formats went away,

Individuals did not "convert". The original first generation immigrants did not change. The second generation was the bridge, and by third generation, nearly all became English dominant in most aspects of culture including language and musical preferences. Other things, like food and art and such may continue to be an influence for more generations.

THEN WHY THE HELL ISN'T(sic) THE HISPANIC FORMATS GOING AWAY INSTEAD OF BECOMING MORE RELEVANT(sic) ON THE DIAL,

I already stated: the first generation immigrants of any cultural group will retain language and music preferences for their entire lifetime. So those roughly 25 million to 30 million first generation Hispanic immigrants will continue to like Spanish language media and music for decades to come... until they all die. And if there are more Hispanic immigrants in years to come, they will replenish the group who looks for Spanish language radio formats.

A clarification: there are plenty of "Hispanic formats" that are not in Spanish. Just look at the major stations that have 50% or more Hispanic listening yet broadcast in English. Power 96 in Miami. KIIS and Power 106 in LA. The Beat in San Antonio, Kiss in Albuquerque. KTEX in McAllen. And on and on and on.

there were never as many Italian or German stations like there are Hispanic, there may of been 10 at most compared to over 10,000 Hispanic do your research and the number increases every day.

There are not 10,000 Spanish language stations. It's more like 1,000. Out of a total of 15,000 stations. Your figures are way off.

There ceased to be a need for German language stations around 1930... about 50 to 60 years after the big migrations of Germans ended. And in 1930, there were less than 1000 stations, and in most markets barely enough for a Red, Blue and Columbia affiliate. No room and no stations for a minority of native German speakers that was pretty much either dead or in their senior years.

The large centers of Italian population did get stations or major numbers of hours for the language in the 40's and 50's. Just look at the hundreds of stations with Italian programming in the foreign language programming section of the Broadcasting Yearbook from the post-War 40's to the early 60's. But by the late 50's, the first generation Italians were few and very old and advertisers lost interest. So the stations changed to other formats.

Reason, because what you say is wrong and what I said is correct. I am through with a closed minded individual like you my conclusions speak volumes...

All your statements defy all the available facts about assimilation, language acquisition, musical taste formation and even the numbers of radio stations in the USA. You are just making this stuff up on the fly; you qualify as a troll and the content of your posts makes you eligible for whatever awards trolls give other trolls to recognize their rabble-rousing, inaccurate and biased posts.
 
there were never as many Italian or German stations like there are Hispanic, there may of been 10 at most compared to over 10,000 Hispanic do your research and the number increases every day.

I was just reviewing the Fall, 1930 issue of the WCFL Chicago magazine. They mention daily programs in 11 different languages. WCFL, as an independent station owned by the Chicago Federation of Labor, tried very hard to reach its members in the language they knew best and understood the best.

But most of those groups they "spoke to" are now several generations removed from their ancestor's language abilities and usages. So there is no need for broadcasts in Hungarian or Latvian or Greek or German or Italian.
 
So even with that influx, that means only 27.5% (55% of 50%) of the market is predominantly Spanish-speaking. Doesn't sound like the crisis "decades40" makes it out to be, so I vote with David on the diagnosis of paranoia.

Here is a good example of this:

Miami 12+ (average of this year's books)

Shares of all Spanish language stations combined: 26%
Percentage of the market that is Hispanic in 12+: 55%

So half of the Hispanics are listening to English language radio.

So I called it within 1.5%? That seems within the standard margin for error. :)
 
As usual, you dance around the original question and situation...WHY ARE MORE HISPANIC FORMATS POPPING UP WHEN THESE SO CALLED PEOPLES YOU SAY ARE ENGLISH FLUENT AND ACCEPT AMERICAN WAYS, then they should accept English formats instead of full time Hispanic, but they never will they just want their language. You either are bull headed or just don't get it. You stated the other European ethnics converted to English so there unique formats went away, THEN WHY THE HELL ISN'T THE HISPANIC FORMATS GOING AWAY INSTEAD OF BECOMING MORE RELEVANT ON THE DIAL, there were never as many Italian or German stations like there are Hispanic, there may of been 10 at most compared to over 10,000 Hispanic do your research and the number increases every day. Reason, because what you say is wrong and what I said is correct. I am through with a closed minded individual like you my conclusions speak volumes...

Sir, your posts are racist in tone.

And you cite facts which are incorrect, and have been proved so.

You have misinterpreted practically everything David has said.

History is proven not to be among your strong suits.

And finally, SHOUTING DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT WHEN YOU ARE SO HORRIBLY WRONG.

Please go away before someone in management makes you go away.
 
Once again, David is spot on. The Hispanic community is ever changing................

And incredibly diverse! A Cuban is not a Mexican. A Puerto Rican is not a Columbian. There are many different Spanish speaking peoples and countries and cultures. All lumped together as "Hispanic" because their basic language is "Spanish".

David knows whereof he speaks. He has been there, done that and lived to tell the story. Each one of us does extremely well to listen and learn from his amazing experiences and knowledge! He freely chooses to share his wealth of radio with us. I can't think of a better blessing! Let's hear him and learn how "real" radio works!

Mr. Gleason, thank you for providing us with a bounty of practical radio "mechanics" and understanding! God bless you and your work!
 
And incredibly diverse! A Cuban is not a Mexican. A Puerto Rican is not a Columbian. There are many different Spanish speaking peoples and countries and cultures. All lumped together as "Hispanic" because their basic language is "Spanish".

David knows whereof he speaks. He has been there, done that and lived to tell the story. Each one of us does extremely well to listen and learn from his amazing experiences and knowledge! He freely chooses to share his wealth of radio with us. I can't think of a better blessing! Let's hear him and learn how "real" radio works!

Mr. Gleason, thank you for providing us with a bounty of practical radio "mechanics" and understanding! God bless you and your work!

And he responds, "I humbly thank you for such kind words".

And a caveat: everything in radio except the laws of physics, the rules of the FCC and the obligation to pay taxes is subject to opinion; there is always more than one "good" way to do things. My opinions, good or bad, are just that... my own perspective.
 
He freely chooses to share his wealth of radio with us. I can't think of a better blessing! Let's hear him and learn how "real" radio works!

I think it is fairly well known that David and I are friends outside of this board ... a friendship which began as a professional respect for each other's knowledge and talents. David is my "go to" source for anything involving programming to Hispanics (of any ethnic/cultural background and of any language fluency) and I reciprocate when I can with my experience in programming top-40 and AC stations in the 1970s and 1980s and my consultancy from then forward.

I consider myself fortunate to be able to call someone with his encyclopedic knowledge both a colleague and a friend, and I hope I never stop learning from him.
 
Genuine question and apologies if this is an obvious answer (I'm new around here!) Do you think there would be much harm in flipping PLJ to a female-leaning alt-rock station (much like 104.5 in Philly). Seems like we're at capacity for CHR/AC/Hot AC in the city. A lot of the playlist these days would overlap (Fall Out Boy, Imagine Dragons, George Ezra, X Ambassadors, Hozier, Of Monsters and Men) while bringing in 90's alt classics (Pearl Jam, Green Day, Foo Fighters, Alanis Morisette, etc.) I also had a similar thought about Fresh 102.7 since they seem to play a similar mix and their holiday concert looks like it could also be a Modern Rock holiday show (Fall Out Boy, George Ezra, Elle King).
 
Genuine question and apologies if this is an obvious answer (I'm new around here!) Do you think there would be much harm in flipping PLJ to a female-leaning alt-rock station (much like 104.5 in Philly). Seems like we're at capacity for CHR/AC/Hot AC in the city. A lot of the playlist these days would overlap (Fall Out Boy, Imagine Dragons, George Ezra, X Ambassadors, Hozier, Of Monsters and Men) while bringing in 90's alt classics (Pearl Jam, Green Day, Foo Fighters, Alanis Morisette, etc.) I also had a similar thought about Fresh 102.7 since they seem to play a similar mix and their holiday concert looks like it could also be a Modern Rock holiday show (Fall Out Boy, George Ezra, Elle King).

First, I question why WRFF would be a model for any other station. Despite about 5 years in the format, it is not even in the top 20 in billings in Philly. While it averages around a 4.2 in 12+ share, it only gets a 1.6 in revenue share.

Second, aside from the difficulty that newer alternative stations have in converting ratings to revenue, there is the issue that New York City is very ethnic... and in ethnic communities alternative under-indexes powerfully. In fact, a Census / ACS study released this week shows that nearly 40% of New York metro household residents don't speak English at home. It's well known that alternative does not do well in Latin America or Asia or other places where most of those immigrants come from.
 


First, I question why WRFF would be a model for any other station. Despite about 5 years in the format, it is not even in the top 20 in billings in Philly. While it averages around a 4.2 in 12+ share, it only gets a 1.6 in revenue share.

Second, aside from the difficulty that newer alternative stations have in converting ratings to revenue, there is the issue that New York City is very ethnic... and in ethnic communities alternative under-indexes powerfully. In fact, a Census / ACS study released this week shows that nearly 40% of New York metro household residents don't speak English at home. It's well known that alternative does not do well in Latin America or Asia or other places where most of those immigrants come from.

And why would it? It's outside the mainstream, for the most part, and there for even less likely to get exposure in other countries. Top forty charts don't look the same the world over...and if Alternative acts are having a hard time getting heard here, they're far less likely to get exposure overseas in non-English speaking countries, unless they are already popular there. As you've posted before, someone coming from Africa is not likely to turn into a country music or rock fan if they weren't exposed to it in the homeland, and already fans.
 
And why would it? It's outside the mainstream, for the most part, and there for even less likely to get exposure in other countries. Top forty charts don't look the same the world over...and if Alternative acts are having a hard time getting heard here, they're far less likely to get exposure overseas in non-English speaking countries, unless they are already popular there. As you've posted before, someone coming from Africa is not likely to turn into a country music or rock fan if they weren't exposed to it in the homeland, and already fans.

Good points... these are the things that the occasional alternative fan that shows up here ignores. The reason New York does not have an alternative station is that there is a small potential audience pool and a market that has not had much radio exposure to the genre. This is unlike LA, where two alternative stations prosper... because the market has decades of alternative heritage and hit-making; even Hispanics use both KROQ and KYSR because of that heritage.
 
David, The only thing I will disagree with you on is that it lacks the ratings potential in NYC. If you remember, Merlin's "New Rock 101.9" stunt got a 2.6 (6+, it was 10th in 18-34) with just four books behind it. Not bad at all for a placeholder. If someone launched a similar format, I think it could get decent ratings. The problem is being able to sell the format, as you say. nobody in their right mind will blow up a station with a decent BCF stream for something that probably won't bill any better. I wouldn't either.

If a "new"station was made available, say by the oft-wished for WBAI to Cumulus, Then alternative would make sense. Before anyone indicts me for being "one of those", I know Pacifica is not selling anytime soon.
 
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The only two possible locations I could see for a rock station are 95.5 or 99.5.
95.5 has been failing, more or less, for a long time, and doesn't offer anything much different than Z 100 or Fresh 102.7, which both do better.
99.5 is a joke of an operation and will probably be sold one day or another.
It doesn't have quite as much of a signal as other stations, but it gets out all right and is right in the middle of the dial.
 
95.5 has been failing, more or less, for a long time, and doesn't offer anything much different than Z 100 or Fresh 102.7, which both do better.

The problem is that a radical format switch means all the existing revenue goes away and it can take a year to 18 months for a new format to hit its stride. So the turn-around could cost $12 to $15 million in losses. Cumulus will simply try to improve the performance as they do have some equity remaining in the station.

99.5 is a joke of an operation and will probably be sold one day or another.
It doesn't have quite as much of a signal as other stations, but it gets out all right and is right in the middle of the dial.

First, WBAI at 4,200 watts on the ESB, has the same power as WBLS... it is definitely a prime piece of radio real estate. It's not a vastly inferior facility such as 105.9 is.

WBAI has been a contentious hotbed or un-harmonious dis-accord for as long as I can remember. It will likely stay that way, and they will continue to pull financial rabbits out of virtual hats to keep it running and broadcasting their version of the truth.
 
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