NYC Urban Wasteland

[davideduardo]

Re: Internet != Terrestrial by any stretch of the imagination

>
> I hate when people talk about how the same can be done over
> the Internet, be it with things like K-Rock2 or WCBS's
> Oldies. \

The context was "pirate stations."

When was the last time you heard of a pirate oldies or standards station? Most are either rock or hip hop if musical, or have some cause if they are not music based. They are not mainstream in 99& of the cases. In many cases, it seems that breaking the law and flouting it is more important than the programming itself.

 

[KlassikKountry]

Re: Sigh

I understand where you are coming from, but you have to agree that Rap and Hip Hop music is more violent, racist and promotes drugs, murder, thug and gang glamor, mistreatment of women and the put down of other races, more than any other breed of music. I cannot understand how this music is allowed on the airwaves, if you just listen to it for any length of time, its not hard to see where its coming from. What happened to the music of long ago about marriage, love, cars, surfing, the earth, et al. For the record, I am not in any way blaming African Americans for this, in reality, its the White executives that are responsible, all they are interested in is their bank account, not the decay in music and society.

 

[Jeffrey]

Re: Sigh

>
>
>
>
> Jeffrey:
>
> Question, What turns so many of today's White youth onto the
> even the most gangsta Rap? Most White kids, especially males
> I've come in contact with listen to rap more than they
> listen to Alternative Rock.
>
> I do see this different than Black/R&B music of the past
> generations. From Jazz up to Disco Whites have embraced
> these types of music. But Hip Hop has the MOST Black sound
> than any other form of popular music.
>
>
> I just don't understand why a White kid whether he's from
> the middle class urban or upper class suburbs consume music
> that reflects the most negative element of the Balck
> community.
>
>

>
Although I'm no expert on the subject it would seem to me that "youth" in general have always supported a rebellious type of music be it rock or hip, hop.
If you think back to the 70's and 80's, the hard rock groups of that time were rebellious in their lyrics as well just as the so called gansta rap is today. Teenagers by nature tend to be at a rebellious age so I don't really think it has anything to do with today's youth being more rebellious or embrassing hip, hop more so because of it's ganster reputation any more so than AC/DC's rebelious lyrics in the 80's.<P ID="signature">______________
Is it 2008 yet?
www.airamericaradio.com
</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by Jeffrey on 11/04/05 04:26 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[Slinky]

Recording Satellite Listening

> Here is a bit from Inside Radio about satellite...
>
> "How is satellite radio doing in the real world - like in
> Pittsburgh?
> Keymarket VP/Programming Frank Bell finds that XM and Sirius
> are mentioned in just 42 of the 3,340 diaries from the
> Summer Arbitron. And in terms of quarter hours - total
> satellite usage (1380 quarter hours out of 242,335 for the
> market) is about 0.5%."
>
> My last count of LA diaries showed even a lower percentage.

Arbitron has basically admitted that the language in the diary does not prompt listeners to record satellite listening, and they're trying to correct that problem.

Why bother citing numbers that Arbitron itself does not consider accurate?

 

[kevinsealy]

Re: Sigh

> What I cannot understand is mostly all Rap music is
> anti-white, female degrading and portrays the white
> population as racist, stupid, scared, weak and out of touch
> with reality. In the days of Soul, Motown, R&B, Jazz and
> Disco this was to a lesser degree. Why would the white
> listener embrace this kind of ridicule and persecution,
> maybe they don't listen to the words or meaning of Rap
> songs, just the beat, beat, beat, is what counts. I for one
> think it all sounds the same, just the words and meaning are
> different. Whereas Country, Rock, Metal and Alternative
> have different scales and music notes, and never are racist
> in content. The other day I saw a young white guy singing
> to a Public Enemy song about kill whitey, rape his women and
> burn his house, doesn't he get it...go figure.
>




Klass/Kountry:

I've worked with youth in the Richmond Hill/Ozone Park areas of Queens for 20 years. And I find it amazing that you would find a White kid who would embrase N.W.A. which stands for N____rs With Attitude and this kid knew what it meant.

There's Heavy Metal/Alternative Rock out there and I don't see too many White youths listening to those groups.

If 50 Cent, Eminem and Jay-Z started making more rap like Aaron Carter's, "Aaron's World" I truly wonder how well would this be accepted.





Thanks,<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Recording Satellite Listening

>
> Arbitron has basically admitted that the language in the
> diary does not prompt listeners to record satellite
> listening, and they're trying to correct that problem.

Not exactly. Arbitron is testing wording to let respondents know that any kind of listening is to be recorded. But they are not doing anything major to change methodology, as they do not say, "whether it is AM or FM" either.
>
> Why bother citing numbers that Arbitron itself does not
> consider accurate?
>

Nowhere does Arbitron say there are inaccuracies. They simply want to have clarity.

If you do the math, you see the current numbers, ranging form a 0.2 to 0.4 share per market as measured is quite accurate.

There are, let's say, about 9 million receivers. Most are on-location, principally in cars. That means that, out of over 200 million 12+ persons, less than 4% have satellite receivers. Since the receivers are predominantly one-location, and mostly in cars, that reduces the potential TSL to roughly 30% of total (4% of people), or just over 1%. Add in that there is a total TSL factor (which requires a lengthy explanation), and you find that the maximum share potential with 9 million recievers is around 0.3 for both services combined. This is what a diary review shows.

 

[Pat2]

Re: Sigh

>
>
> I just don't understand why a White kid whether he's from
> the middle class urban or upper class suburbs consume music
> that reflects the most negative element of the Balck
> community.
>
>
>
AMEN! I don't get it either. I saw a white kid in the store the other day all decked out with the baggy orange pants, silly looking oversize bling bling jewelry and hat on crooked. He looked like a one of those clown posers that you see on that cell phone commercial. I started to yell out "Hey dude, Vanilla Ice called, He wants his outfit back!"

 

[Pat2]

Re: Sigh

I sometimes think that my white brethern have completely lost their mind. I wish we could go back to black (excuse me, "urban") music that sounds cool again by actual musicians playing guitars and horns and not using some dad-blast computer and sampling machine. Even though rap can sometimes have some cool sounding beats, most of the time its a machine or sampler playing and not a real band. I also don't recall Earth Wind and Fire cursing like sailors and grabbing their testicles every 3 minutes.

 

[Pat2]

Re: Sigh

> > Whereas Country, Rock, Metal and Alternative
> > have different scales and music notes, and never are
> racist
> > in content.
>
> Country music may not be racist, but in the past few years
> it has sharply turned "redneck" -- where if you don't have a
> pickup truck, a cowboy hat, and a drinking problem, then
> you're not cool. Obviously this is not something which
> metropolitanized Northeasterners can associate with. I love
> Country music, but I hate all the "redneck" songs which
> Nashville has been churning out recently. In fact many of
> these songs blatantly glorify alcoholism and Western-style
> street justice, the same way that rap/hip-hop tends to
> glorify drug abuse and inner-city crime.
>
Maybe New York should try an Alternative country format. One with some good old fashioned Bush bashers like Steve Earl, Dixie Chicks, Ryan (not Bryan) Williams or any number of the country acts that for some reason can't get played on an country station. Kind of a country version of a college station.

 

[Pat2]

Re: Sigh

I'm curious, when was the last time you heard of a shoot-out at a country station? Not very often. Lets see. "Shots fired at WSM after Garth Brooks' wife was dissed by Vince Gill" Brooks quoted as saying "Gill don't be talkin bout my b*tch like that! I gone pop a cap in his A**

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Sigh

> I'm curious, when was the last time you heard of a shoot-out
> at a country station? Not very often. Lets see. "Shots
> fired at WSM after Garth Brooks' wife was dissed by Vince
> Gill" Brooks quoted as saying "Gill don't be talkin bout my
> b*tch like that! I gone pop a cap in his A**

No, the shootouts just happen at the bars where the statiosn do remotes. Been there, done that.
>

 

[uncamark]

Re: Sigh

> I understand where you are coming from, but you have to
> agree that Rap and Hip Hop music is more violent, racist and
> promotes drugs, murder, thug and gang glamor, mistreatment
> of women and the put down of other races, more than any
> other breed of music. I cannot understand how this music is
> allowed on the airwaves, if you just listen to it for any
> length of time, its not hard to see where its coming from.
> What happened to the music of long ago about marriage, love,
> cars, surfing, the earth, et al. For the record, I am not
> in any way blaming African Americans for this, in reality,
> its the White executives that are responsible, all they are
> interested in is their bank account, not the decay in music
> and society.

Because it pisses off the parents. And that's been the same all throughout the history of recorded music.

Go back to the 20s and you'll see magazine articles calling jazz the music of degradation, immorality and race-mixing. That's jazz, the music that now has its own Lincoln Center-supported home in the headquarters building of a major media conglomerate.

In the 30s, Benny Goodman was considered immoral (didn't help that he had some black guys in his band)--what's now considered the music of "the greatest generation."

I don't even need to mention what the press wrote about Elvis in the 50s.

Even the now-clean cut Beatles were considered suspect in the 60s.

And even as rock and roll became mainstream, there was still a form of rock that the Elvis or Beatles-lover could never warm to.

The kids will always respond to any music that's disconcerting to their elders. And no other music these days is able to push those disconcertion buttons the way hip-hop does.

And it's not just white parents--the black parents who in another era loved (or at least tolerated) Motown or Stax/Volt as much as their kids find hip-hop just as distasteful as white parents, especially if they're middle-class and would like to see their kids not adapting anything that's reminiscent of the ghetto.

You make something forbidden fruit, they'll want it even more. True then, true now, true forever.

 

[kevinsealy]

Re: Sigh

> > I understand where you are coming from, but you have to
> > agree that Rap and Hip Hop music is more violent, racist
> and
> > promotes drugs, murder, thug and gang glamor, mistreatment
>
> > of women and the put down of other races, more than any
> > other breed of music. I cannot understand how this music
> is
> > allowed on the airwaves, if you just listen to it for any
> > length of time, its not hard to see where its coming from.
>
> > What happened to the music of long ago about marriage,
> love,
> > cars, surfing, the earth, et al. For the record, I am not
>
> > in any way blaming African Americans for this, in reality,
>
> > its the White executives that are responsible, all they
> are
> > interested in is their bank account, not the decay in
> music
> > and society.
>
> Because it pisses off the parents. And that's been the same
> all throughout the history of recorded music.
>
> Go back to the 20s and you'll see magazine articles calling
> jazz the music of degradation, immorality and race-mixing.
> That's jazz, the music that now has its own Lincoln
> Center-supported home in the headquarters building of a
> major media conglomerate.
>
> In the 30s, Benny Goodman was considered immoral (didn't
> help that he had some black guys in his band)--what's now
> considered the music of "the greatest generation."
>
> I don't even need to mention what the press wrote about
> Elvis in the 50s.
>
> Even the now-clean cut Beatles were considered suspect in
> the 60s.
>
> And even as rock and roll became mainstream, there was still
> a form of rock that the Elvis or Beatles-lover could never
> warm to.
>
> The kids will always respond to any music that's
> disconcerting to their elders. And no other music these
> days is able to push those disconcertion buttons the way
> hip-hop does.
>
> And it's not just white parents--the black parents who in
> another era loved (or at least tolerated) Motown or
> Stax/Volt as much as their kids find hip-hop just as
> distasteful as white parents, especially if they're
> middle-class and would like to see their kids not adapting
> anything that's reminiscent of the ghetto.
>
> You make something forbidden fruit, they'll want it even
> more. True then, true now, true forever.
>






Uncamark:

Blacks in my age group (I'm 44) who were moving into adulthood when Rap was about to be born with the Sugarhill Gang in 1979 now are more into 60s, 70s & 80s R&B along with Disco. Many of them including myself are turnoffed with today's Hip Hop. You will find those that love Rap.


It is very true that Whites over 40 that listen to Rap is a dime a dozen.



Thanks,
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin L. Sealy</P>

 

[lido1302]

Re: Sigh

What's even worse is that these 'rappers' are kids role models.


> I understand where you are coming from, but you have to
> agree that Rap and Hip Hop music is more violent, racist and
> promotes drugs, murder, thug and gang glamor, mistreatment
> of women and the put down of other races, more than any
> other breed of music. I cannot understand how this music is
> allowed on the airwaves, if you just listen to it for any
> length of time, its not hard to see where its coming from.
> What happened to the music of long ago about marriage, love,
> cars, surfing, the earth, et al. For the record, I am not
> in any way blaming African Americans for this, in reality,
> its the White executives that are responsible, all they are
> interested in is their bank account, not the decay in music
> and society.
>

 

[ontheair247]

> After reading all these posts, it seems the country's
> largest, most historic city, a city that holds the biggest
> Rock, Country and Retro Acts, DOES NOT have one
> Active/Metal, Modern/Alternative, Country or Standards
> station, instead its an urban music wasteland.

After all is said, It's still the same wasteland that misses 95% of the listening public, UNLESS and until someone in position changes it. NYC is a radio programming wasteland. Even decades ago Philly had much better music.

 

[musicloverII]

Re: Sigh

You have to excuse David, he twists, lies and manipulates numbers to appear smarter than he really is. He's off an many of his percentages and I'm way too tired to correct them all.

> > You are very unique. A recent study of iPod owners showed
> > that the average was around 300 songs per device, not the
> > thousands they can handle. Interestingly, 300 is about the
>
> > average playlist size for most 18 to 50 year old targeted
> > radio stations.
> >
> > Boards like these are frequented by an eclectic group of
> > people. Many want to vent their dissatisfaction with radio
>
> > because broadcast radio is not as eclectic as they are.
> Some
> > just want to understand why some of the music they like
> does
> > not get broadcast. And some are nihilists and just want to
>
> > wax bombastic about radio.
> >
> > Whatever the case, the 95% of Americans who use radio each
>
> > week do not want to hear 1000 or 10,000 or 25,000 songs.
> In
> > fact, each generally has several different stations
> > "favorites" and will get the best 300, plus or minues a
> few,
> > of each type of station they cume.
> >
>
> I dont expect to hear 25000 songs on the radio (nor would I
> want to) my point was diffuse your argument about me being
> one-sided or only looking for gains in one genre.
>
>
> > In NY, I see two Black/targeted, mostly hip hop stations,
> > Power and Hot. I see two different flavors of Urban in
> Kiss
> > and WBLS. That is only two choices for each format for
> > younger and older, predominantly African Americans, who
> like
> > that kind of format. This is certainly no more saturated
> > than AC, where we have a range in NY from soft to hot AC
> on
> > a variety of stations.
> >
> > After all, the market is about 20% Black.
>
> There are rather large differences in demographics between
> Urban/R&B and AC/Hot AC so thats a hard analogy. Therefore I
> can't completely agree with you. Besides, Thats 4 under
> Urban/R&B and 2 for AC (LiteFM and WPLJ) (Jack is a story to
> itself. 103.9 and WHUD are Westchester stations)
>
>
> > Actually, it is not. 95% of all Americans still listen to
> > radio each week, and this has been unchanged over the last
>
> > several decades. The average American listens to radio
> about
> > 20:15 hours a week, down only 45 total minutes from the
> > average in 1952 before the TV freeze was lifted!
> >
>
> This I haven't heard of, though I find it hard to believe
> most people average 3 hours a day soley on radio. Whats
> listening too? Leaving the radio on in a room while taking a
> shower? In any case, if that is true, I bet it is more
> office/work penetration then it is home/car. Given the rate
> of sales of 6 CD changers and mp3 player stereo adapters
> sales, radio numbers have to be down in that area. Great
> info though.
>
> >
> > Define "popular." Satellite, all services and all
> channels,
> > can not even "make the book" in rated markets yet, meaning
>
> > it does not get roughly 0.3% of listening.
>
> Of course not. Most satellite radio stations are commercial
> free, so advertising interest would be low. Plus with so
> many channels people rarely stick to one station. It's a
> hard area to rate.
>
> Great Reply
>

 

[davideduardo]

Re: If you are going to accuse, prove it!!

> You have to excuse David, he twists, lies and manipulates
> numbers to appear smarter than he really is. He's off an
> many of his percentages and I'm way too tired to correct
> them all.

Every figure cited is verifiable. Many, such as the listening per person and the total listening to raido is right off the Aribtron site.

The quantification of satellite listening by market is based on Arbitron's Maximiser software, and supported by diary reviews... not just my own, but those of others are reported this last week in Inside Radio.

The profitabilty comments about XM and Sirius are talken from thier own quarterly reports and 10-k filings available free to anyone on line.

Please identify and prove one "lie," and the entire group will get an appology. Otherwise, I expect the same form you. Call a person a liar as opposed to debating with facts is rude, offensive and juvenile.

Let's see some proof!

 

[briancraig]

Re: Wrong math.

> > Country
>
> Not enough people would listen.

David, you know you are being somewhat misleading.

It is not that enough people wouldn't listen, it is that not enough of the "right kind of people" would listen. The "right people" being ones that Madison Avenue finds attractive.

You know that a country station on a good New York FM signal would have more listeners than any format WNEW has put on in the last 15 years, more listeners than WCBS-FM has right now and probably more than WPLJ or WXRK after Stern.

 

[davideduardo]

Re: Wrong math.

> > > Country
> >
> > Not enough people would listen.
>
> David, you know you are being somewhat misleading.
>
> It is not that enough people wouldn't listen, it is that not
> enough of the "right kind of people" would listen. The
> "right people" being ones that Madison Avenue finds
> attractive.

The issue is that country, when and where it works, delivers the "right" kind of people... adults 25-54. Country is the perfect demographic machine, with pretty good male and female balance and delicious core demos.

The problem in NY is that there are not enough contry listeners except at the fringes of the metro. For the campaign that has to sell Manhattan and the Boroughs, NE Jersey, Western LI, it is an underperfoming format.
>
> You know that a country station on a good New York FM signal
> would have more listeners than any format WNEW has put on in
> the last 15 years, more listeners than WCBS-FM has right now
> and probably more than WPLJ or WXRK after Stern.

Actually, several companies have done research about potential formats in NY, and country, in 2005, is not a viable option.
>