OCTOBER NUMBERS

[Raymond]

Urban can't bill. WJJJ and WAMO have proved that beyond any reasonable doubt.

Parttimer, why do you think they can't bill? What exactly is it that they can't make money?

 

[Parttimer]

Urban can't bill. WJJJ and WAMO have proved that beyond any reasonable doubt.

Parttimer, why do you think they can't bill? What exactly is it that they can't make money?

Just looking at history. Both stations went away because they weren't billing. Your guess is as good as mine as to why advertisers didn't want to be there.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Considering that WJAS is even still around with an MOYL/Soft AC hybrid format, I think WLTJ could certainly improve by flipping to a WDUV type format. WSHH with Delilah is just getting too generic and sounds like any other Hot/ Middle of the road AC like Magic 94.9 in Tampa. WDUV shows this can work with an older population and doesn't even need jocks. Of course Bob might not like it cause I'd switch from Bob to a WDUV clone when I'm in Da Burg except when I listen to Frankie Day.

 

[secondchoice]

Urban can't bill. WJJJ and WAMO have proved that beyond any reasonable doubt.

Parttimer, why do you think they can't bill? What exactly is it that they can't make money?

Just looking at history. Both stations went away because they weren't billing. Your guess is as good as mine as to why advertisers didn't want to be there.

IMHO it was the sales team. I was around Atlanta where “V103” was just getting started in the late 1970’s. They hired sales professionals and trained them how to “sell” Radio. The racial make up and gender of this group would surprise a lot people but that is a different thread and it is not PC to mention race. Let’s just say some sales team would never listen to the “V” unless they were checking out a commercial. This crew got results for their customers. They did not sell the “Urban Profession Class” which was very small in Atlanta and the nation at that time. (Affirmative Action, EEO, and common sense, were less than a generation old and had not taken effect.) The local buyers knew that if they ran a flight on V103, some one would show up and buy whatever they were selling. Of course this was before the songs with lyrics the FCC will not let you play on the radio. V103 was “late” to go that direction and Radio One’s urban effort forced them. Urban AC is making Cox a lot of $$ in Atlanta. BTW Cox has two high billing low cost operations WLAR (Urban AC) and WSB-FM (AC). If I had the last place “market covering” FM signal in Pittsburg (there are not that many), I would have to give some thought to an Urban AC or Urban AC / Urban hybrid format. It would be a slow starter billing wise until you get the sales team trained to sell results. Most (local) sponsors really do not care what your audience listens to, they want just was to know they are getting results.

 

[Raymond]

Thanks secondchance, that makes sense. I was thinking that the sales teams of both WAMO and WJJJ were not experienced enough. I did some buying at Clear Channel around WJJJ time and to me, it always seemed that they treated that station as third or fourth tier. No wonder they couldn't sell it.

 

[Boss Radio]

If I had a dime for every, "They didn't know how to sell the format" rant, I could buy a couple of stations.

 

[db59]

Take WLTJ and turn it into a full-blown oldies station playing everything from the mid '50's to the late '70's, like a combination of the old 1250 WTAE-AM and what 3WS used to be. I know I'd listen to that in a heartbeat.

 

[Talk_Dude]

Take WLTJ and turn it into a full-blown oldies station playing everything from the mid '50's to the late '70's, like a combination of the old 1250 WTAE-AM and what 3WS used to be. I know I'd listen to that in a heartbeat.

You, and about 25 other people. And most of them are posting here in the Pittsburgh forum.

 

[Boss Radio]

>>>IMHO it was the sales team. I was around Atlanta where “V103” was just getting started in the late 1970’s. They hired sales professionals and trained them how to “sell” Radio.<<<

How big a factor was the Internet in the late 1970s? It's a completely different world today for media and advertising, so that example has little relevance to today.

 

[cingram]

Take WLTJ and turn it into a full-blown oldies station playing everything from the mid '50's to the late '70's, like a combination of the old 1250 WTAE-AM and what 3WS used to be. I know I'd listen to that in a heartbeat.

You, and about 25 other people. And most of them are posting here in the Pittsburgh forum.

An FM oldies station would have plenty of listeners. They'd all be 50+, though.

C.

 

[Whiplash]

Can't complain about the success of WCBS-FM, Magic in Cleveland, and K-Earth in LA.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Two stations playing "oldies' are one and two in the Tampa-St.Pete PPM's

 

[Talk_Dude]

Two stations playing "oldies' are one and two in the Tampa-St.Pete PPM's

And the Tampa-St Petersburg MSA has one of the oldest populations in the nation. Whenever Pittsburgh's abundance of old people is mentioned, it's often noted that Pittsburgh's population of senior citizens is second only to Tampa-St Petersburgh.

Like Clark Ingrham said, "An FM oldies station would have plenty of listeners. They'd all be 50+, though." You can't make much money selling advertising to old folks.

 

[dB]

Two stations playing "oldies' are one and two in the Tampa-St.Pete PPM's

Like Clark Ingrham said, "An FM oldies station would have plenty of listeners. They'd all be 50+, though." You can't make much money selling advertising to old folks.

I think that's a widespread misconception. True, you won't sell much beer, Jonas Brothers tickets, or GAP ads to Boomers, but many of them have more discretionary income than the much sought after 25-50 audience. The sales force has to target a different set of advertisers: medical care, cruises, investment advice, Paul McCartney concerts, etc.

Seldom mentioned is that we Boomers are the last generation to get their entertainment primarily from radio, and that habit has continued 40 years later. (I don't have an iPod, but I do have XM Radio, for example.)

 

[apostate]

But you won't get agency business, and there's still enough of that out there that it is most stations' bread and butter.

The comment about poor sales staffs was particularly true as it pertained to WAMO, whose staff toward the end couldn't sell any format, not just Urban.

BOB bills fairly well, and the same staff that sells it also sells Q 92.9. Q's ratings, however, make it a dumping ground for bonus spots and other "value-added" stuff for BOB. Steel City has some people who can sell. In Q, however, they don't really have an attractive product.

 

[Talk_Dude]

But you won't get agency business, and there's still enough of that out there that it is most stations' bread and butter.

The comment about poor sales staffs was particularly true as it pertained to WAMO, whose staff toward the end couldn't sell any format, not just Urban.

BOB bills fairly well, and the same staff that sells it also sells Q 92.9. Q's ratings, however, make it a dumping ground for bonus spots and other "value-added" stuff for BOB. Steel City has some people who can sell. In Q, however, they don't really have an attractive product.

Exactly correct! This has been discussed in here often. According to "conventional wisdom", older people might have money to spend, but they also tend to spend it on brands and in stores that they have long decided are their favorites. Since most advertising is intended to convince people to select one store or brand name over another, advertising to young consumers who are willing to try new brands is a better idea than attempting to convince well-to-do old lady from Mount Lebanon to switch to Shop-n-Save from Giant Eagle.

It's not scientific research, but doesn't it seem like rich old guys who buy a new car every two years always go back to the same salesman at the same dealership to buy the newest version of the car they're trading in? What's the point in getting them to hear your ad for a different car brand or dealership?

Understand, I'm not trying to convince anyone that it's true that you can't get rich old people to change brands. I'm only saying that ad agencies appear to work under the assumption that it's true when they pick radio stations to buy spots on.

 

[Whiplash]

It's still the largest demo in Pittsburgh. To say you can't sell to that demo is again simply wrong.

 

[cingram]

I think an AM oldies station with a good signal would do just fine. Renda is probably making money with
brokered-time on WMNY, but if I had 1360, I'd change the call letters to WIXZ and play the appropriate
oldies for the demo. Same thing for 1250, which reportedly is for sale.

C.

 

[Talk_Dude]

It's still the largest demo in Pittsburgh. To say you can't sell to that demo is again simply wrong.

No one said that you cannot sell products to old people. What was said was (by apostate), "you won't get agency business". That's what I agreed with. Whether the professional buyers for agencies are right or wrong in not wanting to target senior citizens is irrelevant. Right or wrong, apostate was right when he said that a radio station with mostly senior citizen listeners won't get agency business.

Now, maybe Clark is right that a station with mostly senior citizens can be profitable and do "just fine", but it would have to do it without agency buys. It would have to keep costs contained to the max, and have a really, really good sales staff beating the local bushes for local ad buys.

 

[PHIL Z]

I think an AM oldies station with a good signal would do just fine. Renda is probably making money with
brokered-time on WMNY, but if I had 1360, I'd change the call letters to WIXZ and play the appropriate
oldies for the demo. Same thing for 1250, which reportedly is for sale.

C.

Listen to Frankie Day He Plays Requests, Most Requested Songs are one's played on WAMO AM 860 in the Late 60s early 70s aka old school soul. WIXZ 1360 would be a Great Station for this. Frankie Day and Glen 6am to 10 am, Ray Edwards 10am to 3pm, Candy and Mike 3pm to 7 pm, Terry Lee 7pm to 12am. Quiet Storm 12am to 6am.[ I can dream]