OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer?

[TedL]

Re: OK! Boys and Girls--KUBA, 1600 (AM) now heard on FM translator K238AV, 95.5

A translator must rebroadcast full powered FM station (commercial or noncommercial) at all times. Period...

That's likely to change as the FCC contemplates whether to allow AM stations to use FM translators. A rulemaking is underway (see below.)

Meantime, through FCC permission, KUBA, 1600, Yuba City, is now also heard on K238AV, 95.5, Yuba City, a 10 watt translator on top of South Butte:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/fmq?list=0&facid=139605

Interesting history on the ownership of the CP for this translator:

Educational Media Foundation (the K-Love and Air One folks in Rocklin) had the original CP granted in late 2004.

EMF agreed to sell it for $5,000 in late 2007 to Chris Kidd's Eastern Sierra Broadcasting in Alameda. The transfer app with the FCC application stated it would re-broadcast Nevada Co. Broadcasters' KNCO-FM, Grass Valley, which also owns KUBA.

EMF finally installed equipment in October, 2007. The tower company required the translator be moved from one tower to another, which delayed program testing and obtaining a license to cover.

While the translator was still owned by EMF (and before its deal with Kidd's company was consummated) EMF filed an application with the FCC for a Special Temporary Authority to rebroadcast KUBA.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/ws...t=25&appn=101216638&formid=911&fac_num=139605

The STA was requested under section 73.1635, pending the outcome of a rules change now going on: MB DOCKET NO. 07-172, RM-11338. That rule-making would allow AM stations to be re-broadcast by FM translators under certain circumstances.

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0046/t.10656.html

http://www.amdaytimers.org/ has links to the proposal and comments. Time for comments has expired.

The basis for the K238AV application was to "allow for more consistent service to KUBA listeners" because of what the application called "loss of portions of the KUBA service area losing reception during the nighttime hours" when KUBA is required to go from 5KW Non-directional to 2.5KW directional. The application says the DA has "two major lobes and deep nulls" resulting in substantial loss of service area.

The STA paved the way for Eastern Sierra and Nevada Co. Broadcasters to consummate a deal selling the translator to NCB for $25,000. That was consummated on April 18, 2008 following FCC approval on Apr. 11.

KUBA believes it's the first US AM station to be granted permission to use an FM translator. The translator is about 7 direct miles from downtown Yuba City, and has a very tight pattern aimed in that direction.

Ted

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer

Ted--

Is that a direct feed from the KUBA studios or is translator retransmitting the over the air reception of KUBA?

 

[newsperson]

Newsperson responds:

I was up in Marysville last week and tuned to 95.5 KUBA while on Highway 20 in Yuba City. It punched through great on my 2004 radio with RDS that says "KUBA". With KUBA'a music format it sounds like KUBA AM & FM except once you go south on 99 and leave Yuba City you loose 95.5 but keep 1600 Khz.

Yes I heard that the tower owner was difficult to work with and delayed the start of the translator.

EMF does not like to sell FM translators (they usually turn in the license if they don't need it) except in this situation they had sucessfully worked with Chris Kidd and Eastern Sierra before so they agreed to this sale. However they included a provision that if the legal fees exceded $ 1,500.00 then buyer would pay the overage. We all know how fast attorney fees can rise so that provision was very smart on EMF's part.

Sometime last year the FCC indicated (somewhere I can't remember) that they would be open to wavier requests until the rule is changed. So KUBA is not the first in the nation, just the first in our region. If your an AM and can find an FM translator that complies with the rules then you can ask for the same waiver.

Oh yes Michael after listening the audio is so clear it must be a microwave.

Now I hear that Tom Huth of KMYC wants a translator too.

Newsperson

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer

Newsperson responds:

I was up in Marysville last week and tuned to 95.5 KUBA while on Highway 20 in Yuba City. It punched through great on my 2004 radio with RDS that says "KUBA". With KUBA'a music format it sounds like KUBA AM & FM except once you go south on 99 and leave Yuba City you loose 95.5 but keep 1600 Khz.

Yes I heard that the tower owner was difficult to work with and delayed the start of the translator.

EMF does not like to sell FM translators (they usually turn in the license if they don't need it) except in this situation they had sucessfully worked with Chris Kidd and Eastern Sierra before so they agreed to this sale. However they included a provision that if the legal fees exceded $ 1,500.00 then buyer would pay the overage. We all know how fast attorney fees can rise so that provision was very smart on EMF's part.

Sometime last year the FCC indicated (somewhere I can't remember) that they would be open to wavier requests until the rule is changed. So KUBA is not the first in the nation, just the first in our region. If your an AM and can find an FM translator that complies with the rules then you can ask for the same waiver.

Oh yes Michael after listening the audio is so clear it must be a microwave.

Now I hear that Tom Huth of KMYC wants a translator too.

Newsperson

Hi Newsperson and Ted,

I do find it interesting that along with waiver there must be a provision to use means other than "retransmitting the parent station off air" such as a microwave feed. It certainly would sound better and may intention of trying to compete on the FM dial. I wonder if KUBA is broadcasting in stereo at 95.5.

 

[newsperson]

Michael,

The alternative delivery method such as a microwave or equalized phone line comes into play for fill-in translators. For an FM translator on a first adjacent channel you can use a alternative delivery method if the translator is truly fill-in only.....that its 60 dbu signal is fully contained within the protected contour of the FM station's 54, 57 or 60 dbu.

The AM proposal will only allow fill-in FM translators for AM stations and the coverage must remain within the 2.0 millivolt contour of the AM station or 25 miles. So for AM stations they will not be allowed to extend coverage as it has happened with FM stations.

Yes it is in stereo and because KUBA is a full-service format they especially benefit with the music sounding much better.

Or the other hand does a straight news or talk format station sound that much better?

Does Rush or Dr. Laura sound better in FM stereo?

Your thoughts.

Newsperson

 

[TedL]

Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer

Newsperson responds:

I was up in Marysville last week and tuned to 95.5 KUBA while on Highway 20 in Yuba City. It punched through great on my 2004 radio with RDS that says "KUBA". With KUBA'a music format it sounds like KUBA AM & FM except once you go south on 99 and leave Yuba City you loose 95.5 but keep 1600 Khz.

Yes I heard that the tower owner was difficult to work with and delayed the start of the translator.

EMF does not like to sell FM translators (they usually turn in the license if they don't need it) except in this situation they had sucessfully worked with Chris Kidd and Eastern Sierra before so they agreed to this sale. However they included a provision that if the legal fees exceded $ 1,500.00 then buyer would pay the overage. We all know how fast attorney fees can rise so that provision was very smart on EMF's part.

Sometime last year the FCC indicated (somewhere I can't remember) that they would be open to wavier requests until the rule is changed. So KUBA is not the first in the nation, just the first in our region. If your an AM and can find an FM translator that complies with the rules then you can ask for the same waiver.

Oh yes Michael after listening the audio is so clear it must be a microwave.

Now I hear that Tom Huth of KMYC wants a translator too.

Newsperson

Hi Newsperson and Ted,

I do find it interesting that along with waiver there must be a provision to use means other than "retransmitting the parent station off air" such as a microwave feed. It certainly would sound better and may intention of trying to compete on the FM dial. I wonder if KUBA is broadcasting in stereo at 95.5.

The audio is a direct feed based on the audio quality, and a direct feed makes sense for some translator locations if the AM's power-drop at night would render the signal at the translator unusable.

I'm listening to the translator now. Stereo light is on, but I'm getting the impression it's a mono signal.

The stop-set at 4:25p is mono... at least on my Yamaha receiver in Marysville with a factory wire dipole. And the music coming out of the stop-set (Love Train) sounds mono... or maybe blended stereo. So does "You've Lost that Lovin' Feelin." Hard to tell.

Popping out to the Explorer later in the day, I didn't hear the stereo separation I'd have expected to hear.

Picked a bad time... in the middle of a candidates' forum, although they broke for 20 minutes and went to music. I was told that the feed to the translator on the Buttes IS stereo, and there's a bypass that will send stereo from the RCS automation to the translator.

The control room still uses a mono, rotary pot LPB board that was there when I returned here to work at KUBA in 1988.

KUBA does have stereo in some studios.

The former KXCL 103.9 control room is stereo.

The production room that doubles as a backup origination point/legal main studio for Salem's 105.5, (Dunnigan, I want to say without looking) is stereo and ties into the RCS hard-drive automation infrastructure that both KUBA and KXCL shared is capable of stereo.

So, there is stereo origination capability via the automation, and if a stereo studio is patched to the translator.

Since the use of FM translators for AM stations is a "new" area for the FCC... I'd wonder whether any rules adopted would NOT allow stereo on the translator unless the AM station was already doing CQuam AM Stereo.

I'd also wonder whether there'd be a requirement to drop the stereo pilot if monaural programming was being aired.

My guess is that the Commission would encourage stereo.

One thing I've notice is that the audio on K238AV doesn't sound "overprocessed." The claps, cymbal hits, and other very sibilant sounds are clean, not what I'd call "smeared" as they sound on a number of corporate stations in Sacramento.

Nice. Clean. Simple. (Interesting that as I write this, Nancy Sinatra's, "Sugar Town" with all the shh, shh, shhh Shhugartown" is playing.)

Ted

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer

Or the other hand does a straight news or talk format station sound that much better?

Does Rush or Dr. Laura sound better in FM stereo?

Your thoughts.

Newsperson

That's an interesting question that has been increasing debated in recent years due to the gradual aging to the AM news/talk audience. It is believed that many younger people you did not grow up listening to AM at all would find the static and interference of AM annoying and would not as a rule tune to AM period. Pair that with the rapid growth of NPR, AM News/Talk stations are slowly dying.

Bonneville has launched AM/FM simulcasts with KSL/ Salt Lake City and WTOP/ Washington DC and seen increases in the 25-54 area.

I hate that this is happening because I myself see this as potentially the end of AM radio and see Dr Laura and Rush on FM as a waste higher fidelity (politics aside ). Times are always changing...

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Re: OK! Boys and Girls: Why have all of you missed this? Anybody have an answer

One thing I've notice is that the audio on K238AV doesn't sound "overprocessed." The claps, cymbal hits, and other very sibilant sounds are clean, not what I'd call "smeared" as they sound on a number of corporate stations in Sacramento.

Nice. Clean. Simple. (Interesting that as I write this, Nancy Sinatra's, "Sugar Town" with all the shh, shh, shhh Shhugartown" is playing.)

Ted

Ah...The debate between Sound Engineer and a Program Director over processing is always enjoyable. Wouldn't you say?

 

[TedL]

Re: KUBA's FM translator-Very good stereo

Just checked K238AV, KUBA's translator and it IS in stereo.

Nice separation on Peter, Paul and Mary's "Leavin' on a Jet Plane," The Animals' "House of the Rising Sun," and the Beach Boys' "Don't Worry, Baby."

I think the clean-ness of the signal makes it more listenable, and that can help TSL. KUBA tries for in-office listening, so that's important.

Ted.