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Oldies=Dead format

Overheard today: Anything but 60's. Our Muzak somehow got turned to the the 50's& 60's channel, which surprised me. I didn't get excited, I knew it wouldn't last. My preference is to have the thing off since the level is barely audible and I find that annoying.

There are people who want nothing more than to push this music away. I heard somebody speak up and say they got the complaint right after a Cher song. I don't know who complained but obviously it was someone with pull in the office. Some of us enjoy this music.

I hate being fed somebody else's idea of music at the office.
 
People who don't want to be forcefed others ideas of what was a hit or playable oldies now have lots of other choices other than radio....I laugh at all this so called research,testing etc... 85% of it is BS...This stuff is simply making something difficult that is not...Radio loves to overthink alot of things.... Take the charts,listener input,someone who knows music like the jocks and sometimes gut feeling and play the darn songs...people usually don't eat the same thing for lunch everyday and they don't want to be able to set their watch by when a station plays a certain song...Oldies listeners are very knowledgeable about music and they response to real variety....Remember too so many things we think you should do or not do in radio the listener could care less about..A good programmer is able to put themselves in a listeners shoes....
 
Allen, I've programmed Oldies (and other formats) in three large markets....and your wrong about research.
It works. Everytime we got fresh research on our library and we adjusted our rotations accordingly - the ratings went up. The highest billing station in the Carolina's is highly researched.

All research is...is asking Oldies (or any format) fans to rate the music. It's simple and it works.
It does need to be local based research.

I always put a particular song in each test twice. It always scores the same.

I always throw in some more obscure, yet formerly highly charting songs in the test. They always score poorly.

There is some room for gut and local knowledge in programming decisons, though. But it's hard to argue with your local Oldies listeners and their opinions on the music.
 
A question about research. A PD I worked for, once commented that when they tested songs by the Beatles that sometimes they tested through the roof and other times tested very badly. Why is this and which one do you believe?

If you play a short list and keep making it shorter it might benefit you in the short run. What about the long run when listener fatigue sets in? Okay so you bring in some hit music that hasn't been heard in awhile but since you haven't played it in so long people are not familiar with it so it doesn't test well. Basically haven't you created your own problem?
 
A question about research. A PD I worked for, once commented that when they tested songs by the Beatles that sometimes they tested through the roof and other times tested very badly. Why is this and which one do you believe?

Could have been bad recruiting. You always want people who listen to Oldies, and probably like many Beatles songs to participate. This is where using a real good research company is smart and expensive. Certain Beatles songs always test high; Twist and Shout, Here Comes the Sun, others are hit and miss. Most diehard Oldies fans do not like the later Sgt Peppers stuff (Hippie music?)

If you play a short list and keep making it shorter it might benefit you in the short run. What about the long run when listener fatigue sets in? Okay so you bring in some hit music that hasn't been heard in awhile but since you haven't played it in so long people are not familiar with it so it doesn't test well. Basically haven't you created your own problem?

The benchmark for tight listed Oldies stations was K-Earth in LA in the 90s. They played about 280 songs a week. But they tested their music four times a year, so it would change slightly every three months.

As a PD, I always want a huge list of really good testing songs, but the typical Oldies listener has their favrorites.

There's only about 500-600 songs that are strong for a more traditional, 60s & 70s, Oldies station.
If you go any deeper than that you alienate anyone under 55.

I believe an Oldies station should have an HD2 channel that plays 3000 Oldies. It wouldn't do well in the ratings, but the Oldies freaks would have their own station. Of course, they'd complain about only 3000 titiles. LOL
 
Also having programmed oldies in a couple of different stations, I can add that there are, actually, two distinct forms of oldies listeners:

The first: the record collectors, who can tell you the B-side title, label and run-time of just about every song, plus the gas milage and history of every classic car they own. And...

The second: the "casual" listeners who consider this music not a lifestyle (as above), but as a musical preference.

The fact is...there's more casual listeners than there are the record collector types (though they never seem to believe that.) And that's why short playlists work better than super big ones...the casual listeners want to hear one of their "favorites" every time they tune in, and they are the bigger of the two audiences.

You can operate successfully an oldies station with a library universe as high as 12-15 hundred songs...but you rotate far less. Most stations are between 300-500 titles, depending upon market size and competitive factors.
 
As one who programmed an AM oldies station with 1300 in the library... and that did well... a lot of the perception of the library's size is how the roatation is handled. A larger library can be used to add some nice "flavor" to the on-air mix or, done wrong,can really make you sound like you're all over the place.
 
All of you have legitimate points...No one is wrong in their opinion....I totally agree that part of the problem is
the library needs massaging often...You can't just let selector or whatever print the list everyday and that's what you play...I also realize there are superfans and casual listeners...I do think most listeners fall somewhere in between....I also think that the musical passion and song recall of the average listener is severely underestimated by most research and that oldies stations would benefit from a WOW catagory a couple of times an hour and maybe one less power per hour that way the music won't burn out so fast...
By the way Bill 102.9/102.3 is a very good station and you do a nice job...I listen often and enjoy it quite a bit......

Allen
 
Thanks Allen. I'm not the PD, haven't been for three years, just PM drive, part-time.
I have another business.

It will be fun to see what WKIX AM 850 does in the ratings, down the road. Good AM signal, big library of
50s thru 80s. Needs a couple live jocks and outside promotion. I enjoy listening to it.
 
Yeah it should be interesting with 850....If they do it right it could carve out a place for itself in Raleigh...Are they streaming audio??? Tough to get in Greenville..Do you think they will spend the money for jocks and proper promotion???? I sure hope so....It would be cool to hear a local full service station...I wouldn't mind a swap shop and the obituary column of the air and lots of time and weather checks and those classic Channel 85 jingles.......

Allen
 
Atticus said:
allenv said:
The oldies audience is alive and well and spending money....
Click to expand...

Clear denial??? The research you're referring to is old, pal. The generation prior to the Baby Boomers WAS pretty stodgy and set in their ways. Many of them lived during the Great Depression. The Baby Boomers, on the other hand, are a generation that doesn't want to get old, so they spend a lot more like the younger generations used to. They're the only ones with discretionary income right now. You see them at concerts, taking big vacations, developing expensive hobbies. Unfortunately, unless you've been living under a rock, you should know that young people are having problems finding jobs and they have NO MONEY. Many of them are moving back in with their Baby Boomer parents. So, manufacturers and other businesses need to get real about who they should be advertising to.
Click to expand...

Clearly you have never seen any recent research - or more likely - no research at all as you clearly are posting your opinion as facts that do not exist. Bottom line, thats why 60's based Oldies Stations no longer exists.
 
WhoDat! said:
Kabrich said:
allenv said:
The oldies audience is alive and well and spending money....
Click to expand...

Sure, they spend money - but only a small percentage of what the under 55 year old spends, as they look at retirement right up ahead. They are also very set in their ways of spending the small percentage of dollars they spend. There is so much information and research on this that anyone that disputes it is just in clear denial.
Click to expand...
this sounds like al gore's argument on "global warming"... discussion over huh? not quite..
this argument about 35-54's is like some kind of "mantra", and those who use it hope if it is said enough times it will be accepted- i guess you heard it enough to make a believer out of YOU.. from someone who has worked in this format for many years Money CAN be made on this MASS APPEAL format.
Click to expand...

I worked with KRTH in Los Angeles for years - and others such as KONO in San Antonio. There is a real reason why those stations and others have shifted their focus to the 70s from the 60s and become Classic Hits stations.

And having built about 15 stations in North Carolina, I do have the credentials to back it up.

Anyone, such as yourself, stating that Oldies is a Mass Appeal format is truly clueless. You must have repeated it to yourself so often that you believe what you are typing.
 
hey randy, its the 1st time this decade i've used Mass Appeal Format in talking about oldies..(call me crazy but family friendly,familier music that everybody knows and can sing along to= mass appeal to me) yet i hear this Mantra daily on this board about shrinking demographics and blah, blah blah... i have no problem with stations in this format moving things up to the 70's .. but as much as you would like to forget john lennon, The Beatles or Elvis[/i] they will outlive both of us, and that part of the 60's is not forgotten by the people who listen to "Oldies'/classic Hits radio. they expect it.."it's an oldies station isn't it?? it would be like going to McDonald's and finding out they don't serve Big Mac's anymore because they're OLD! invented in the 60's...YECCH if they are not there(the audience is not there). i don't think Anybody would call the 70's or 80's the Greatest decades of Rock & Roll.. i lived it, you did too...it Sucked! in comparison. the 70's are fine mixed with some of the monster hits of the 60's. the 80's-90's are another format altogether and don't belong.
 
my thoughts on wkix:

not putting myself up as an expert, but just some thoughts and observations.

1) some of the music is spot on, but some cuts seem out of place. instrmental of "don't be cruel??" too much country (mamas don't let your babies, etc). i'd rather they play more later 60s and early 70s cuts, and less "folk" type (hang down your head tom dooley, etc) also, i heard a few cuts that seemed.. um... like it was the wrong version of the song. i don't mean the wrong artist, but rather a recording by the correct artist that wasn't the one played on-air back in the day. sorry, i can't remember the particular songs.

2) i love hearing those old PAMS jingles. i don't think that it's only old radio guys that enjoy them, especially since they're marketing themselves as a return to their heritage. i'd like to hear more jingles per hour, and i think later jingles (aka drake jingles) would add to the station. personally that's the wkix that i remember.

3) don't know if this is possible but i'd rather have pat patterson than imus.

and maybe they could give tickets to "two-flags over fuquay" does bertha butt still fly for that airline that has a fleet of ford tri-motors?
 
I TOTALLY agreed with Amis!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D
Where is Pat Patterson? Why won't anyone tell us?????? :'(
I just like everyone else smart would love to hear Pat Patterson back on KIX!!!!!!
 
Amos I have noticed a few songs that are re records as well...As for the instrumentals what I heard were actual top 40's hits like Bill Black's Combo version of Don't Be Cruel..I'm ready for some jocks and local info and I live in Winterville..It would just make it sound like a radio station instead of an Ipod on shuffle..I really hope they do this thing the right way...If they do this could be a rebirth of music and community info on AM...If they get a good sales staff and have reasonable rates...the triangle certainly will support it...
 
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