Oldies return to Knoxville

[DoctorJonasVenture]

It would just be easier to flush the money than try to make that cluster a success. It won't be worth tens of millions ever.

You obviously don't understand the valuation of the radio game. It's about much more than just what records they're playing. It's also about reach and real estate values.

Of course nobody would have ever thought that WIVK would be worth 33(+/-) million either. :

 

[Knoxradiolstnr]

1967 was an awesome year for music. Stuff happened that year that changed music forever. That old stuff will never die. Yeah, that cleaners commercial runs me up the wall! I swear, if I hear that thing one more time I will be in a mental hospital for the rest of my life!

I heard something interesting today on 98.7. They had a collection of liners that played right after a commercial break. The first one was that 70's computerized sounding "Sunday" (you know how the stations had a computerized sounding voice that said each day of the week." Then right after that they played the music radio jingle that WLSQ used just didn't play the WLSQ part. I thought that was kinda cool and made me miss WLSQ all over again! Hey....I wonder what happens when Scott Shannon gets sick? ;D Since he's the only one at the station does the whole thing just shut down? The poor guy needs to get off that radio and go to sleep!

 

[BRH]

It would just be easier to flush the money than try to make that cluster a success. It won't be worth tens of millions ever.

I always thought Horne sounded best and had the most success a few years back when they were simulcasting a talk format on both 105.3 and 850 as "Talk Radio AM and FM, WKVL". They had Walker Johnson and Todd in the morning (by far the most entertaining morning show in town at the time), and they also had Neil
Boortz (before 'NOX stole him away), and Sean Hannity. They also had Tonya Stout Brown doing a local afternoon show for awhile too. I guess this was just too much money to spend for Horne, but that was by far the best format they've done on 105.3.

Personally, I think the AAA format on 105.3 right now is going nowhere. If they are going to do AAA then they should drop the "Farragut's independent voice" bit and focus on Knoxville as a whole, since they are now the only AAA station and a lot of Knoxville listeners miss "the River". Or if they must focus on making it a Farragut focused station, then they would be better off ratings and advertising-wise to go with something like classic hits, oldies, AC, or maybe even smooth jazz. Or another good choice might be classic country. It has done really well down the road in Chattanooga, and might pull a few shares even on a rimshot signal like 105.3. (I know we already have "Merle FM", but it isn't an all classic country station and it has a horrible signal. Even worse than 105.3's coverage if you ask me).
Anyway, it just seems like Horne has given up on doing anything productive with their stations. Sure, they are rimshot, suburban signals that are never going to have huge numbers, but if they were actually programmed and researched a little more, I bet they could probably at least pull a 1.5 to 2 share on 105.3 with the right niche format. 105.3 may be spotty downtown and to the north, but it is as strong as any of the other class A signals in the west part of town and that's where the ad money is.

 

[Tibbs4]

It would just be easier to flush the money than try to make that cluster a success. It won't be worth tens of millions ever.

You obviously don't understand the valuation of the radio game. It's about much more than just what records they're playing. It's also about reach and real estate values.

Of course nobody would have ever thought that WIVK would be worth 33(+/-) million either. :

 

[Tibbs4]

It would just be easier to flush the money than try to make that cluster a success. It won't be worth tens of millions ever.

You obviously don't understand the valuation of the radio game. It's about much more than just what records they're playing. It's also about reach and real estate values.

Of course nobody would have ever thought that WIVK would be worth 33(+/-) million either. :

Doctor: I do understand valuation. I don't see how anyone with any logic can justify overpaying by mega-multiples on fringes and/or AM. These
stations, in this market, don't make sense. While I do agree with you that $33M is a bit of a step, the "logic" applied to this scenerio would say these stations are billing 1/3 of what WIVK is. I contend WIVK bills more in a month (or less) than Horne does all year and the upkeep on the facilities is a lot less for WIVK. That being said, corporate money always manages to really not cost anyone one anything, except the blind
shareholders. I do have to admit that I don't know the exact land values. They'd have to have some serious real estate to justify $10M. If I was stupid
enough to pay $10M, wonder if I'd be smart enough to realize how great of a deal $33M is for one of the most consistent top revenue generating stations there is. We all know the rules of engagement for buying and selling. What would you be willing to pay for the cluster if everything was on
a ground lease/tower rental basis (no real estate include?)

 

[DoctorJonasVenture]

What would you be willing to pay for the cluster if everything was on
a ground lease/tower rental basis (no real estate include?)

As they sit I would be willing to pay the actual appraised worth of the real estate included and 3X cash flow for the radio stations.

Then do the work needed and sell them to one of the big hitters not in this market in a couple of years for about 15m and call it a day.

 

[ratman2005]

[/quote]

You obviously don't understand the valuation of the radio game. It's about much more than just what records they're playing. It's also about reach and real estate values.

Of course nobody would have ever thought that WIVK would be worth 33(+/-) million either. :
[/quote]

Not to go off on a tangent, but I'm a little puzzled. I was under the impression that Citadel Broadcasting bought the Dick Broadcasting stations in Birmingham, Nashville, and Knoxville for $300 million dollars cash a few years back. Of those 11 or 12 stations, WIVK was near the top, if not already worth more than any of the Birmingham stations. I would imagine that its individual worth would've been well more than $33 million.

But I may be misunderstanding what you're saying. Are you saying that Horne eventually acquired 850 AM for 33 million?

 

[DoctorJonasVenture]

Not to go off on a tangent, but I'm a little puzzled. I was under the impression that Citadel Broadcasting bought the Dick Broadcasting stations in Birmingham, Nashville, and Knoxville for $300 million dollars cash a few years back. Of those 11 or 12 stations, WIVK was near the top, if not already worth more than any of the Birmingham stations. I would imagine that its individual worth would've been well more than $33 million.

It's been speculated and possibly even reported in the KNS that WIVK was worth/purchased for $33m by Citadel.

 

[Tibbs4]

Doctor:

What would you speculate the multiple to be? 3X.

 

[ARDONAVINDA]

I heard something interesting today on 98.7. They had a collection of liners that played right after a commercial break. The first one was that 70's computerized sounding "Sunday" (you know how the stations had a computerized sounding voice that said each day of the week." Then right after that they played the music radio jingle that WLSQ used just didn't play the WLSQ part. I thought that was kinda cool and made me miss WLSQ all over again! Hey....I wonder what happens when Scott Shannon gets sick? ;D Since he's the only one at the station does the whole thing just shut down? The poor guy needs to get off that radio and go to sleep!

Yea, that computer sounding voice is called a Sonovox. It was invented in the 1940's first heard in the Classic Disney movie "Dumbo" it was the whistle on the train that would talk, It would say, "All aboard, All aboard". it began it's radio debut in the 1960's when the PAMS jingle company bought the patent from the Disney people. It's original concept was done by placing a cylinder style of speaker much like a soup can pressed up against your throat and the decible level of sound was very loud, you had to have a strong driving amp to send it! You would hold it tight against your voice box and open your mouth and quietly move your mouth to sound out what you wanted it to say, vowels being the easiest of course. This meaning you could virtually run any kind of instrument through it and it would reverberate off your vocal chords. PAMS mostly used the Moog synth since it was a new gadget in the mid 60's, hence that more computer sound. I love that thing, I've been looking for a sonovox for years on e-bay but with no luck. I know the JAM jingle co. still has one and they use it for vintage jingle cuts. JAM has all the rights to those old PAMS packages like WLSQ used, I do have some sono cuts in my collection like the Mon, Tue, Wed, & so on, and other words too, like "cool" "far out" stuff like that. I heard 20 years ago Dan Taylor who's now on WCBS FM as their morning man once had one, he would make his own jingles with it when he was on 66 WNBC's "Time Machine" in the late 80's. Don't know if he still has it or not. Some jingle companies use a vocoder, but that has more of a cyborg sound than the throatier sounding sonovox. Just thought I'd share my Sono tone knowledge with you all.

 

[Knoxradiolstnr]

I am glad you did share that with us! That is just fascinating! I love the old technology from that period of time (preferrably the 50's and 60's). In my spare time I like to go to junk stores and stuff and get old stereo equipment and stuff like that and restore it. Here in the room with me is a 1968 Zenith floor model stereo, probably one of the last made with vacuum tubes. The thing has the 3 speed turntable, am/fm radio, cassette player, 8 track player (the only one I've seen with both players) and I have an old reel-to-reel tape player plugged into the auxillary jacks in the back. Got the thing for 10 bucks at a yard sale, replaced a couple of tubes, and it has better sound quality then the high dollar stereo equipment out there today. One of those Sonovox things would be cool to have though. Didn't The Who use a Sonovox on either their "The Who Sell Out" or "Happy Jack" album? Again, thanks for sharing that!

 

[ARDONAVINDA]

Yea, "Sell Out" has some tracks with sono tones, I forgot about that! I havn't played my original Decca version in 18 years. They were taken from The BBC jingle library & those pirate radio stations that were broadcasting on boats out in the water in England. BBC Top 40 radio wasn't as hip as American T-40 was in the 60's until the pirate stations popped up, they started to copy the way the sound and presentation of our T-40 radio was by using those PAMS jingles and Boss Jock talk, only the jocks had English accents. Once Britain's form of FCC started to go on these boats and just smash up or burn these boats and make these pirate jocks shut down there illegal broadcasts, the British listeners had to find another outlet to hear Top 40, so the BBC began to devote some extra time to pop culture by playing more Top 40 and using those jingles, and I believe that's how it ended up being an influence on The Who's 1967 Album. A couple of British legend Boss Jocks are The late Kenny Everett who had a tv show in the 70's and 80's that played here in America called "The Kenny Everett Video Show", and Ian Whittcomb who had a 1965 novelty hit called "Turn On Song" Oldies stations used to play it when the Oldies format was new in the 80's but dropped it in the 90's when most oldies started to decrease there playlists to only feature the same top 20 songs over and over, which is what really crippled the oldies format through the years. It's recently had a resuscitation in life but, for how long know one knows. XM & Sirus go deeper that's why a die hard oldies fan will listen, terrestrial radio is afraid to do that. Wallstreet & Stockholders who basically run radio now won't allow programmers to take risks, got to keep it familliar and safe. Only the independant owner has the luxury to take risks!
BTW cool 1968 Zenith stereo console, never heard of one from that time with cassette & 8 track or with tubes for that matter. Very cool find!

 

[Knoxradiolstnr]

Thanks. Yeah, listening to all these records and stuff I listen to alot of good (well in my opinion, good) songs that the oldies stations should play. People listen to an oldies station and think that Jefferson Airplane had two songs "White Rabbit" and "Somebody To Love." They had a ton of great songs. You'll never hear "Volunteers." Same thing with Steppenwolf. They play two songs and we know what they are ;D. They had several good albums out though. Alot of Jimi Hendrix's stuff would fit in well on the oldies format. So would early Pink Floyd. If they would dig deeper and get some exciting sounding dj's, they could easily get more listeners, even pick up alot of younger listeners. The kids these days are fascinated with this time period and the music and if they could get the chance to hear some of it instead of like you said, 20 songs over and over, they would like it. There was enough stuff recorded between the mid 50's and the mid 70's to play for months with no repeating at all if they wanted.

 

[ARDONAVINDA]

Yes you are correct sir! Corporate does not want to bother with that, they only want to make $. Running Scott Shannon 247 will help to keep the overhead low. May not do much for the ratings though, we'll just have to see. I would LOVE to hear local personality radio on 98.7. Maybe present it in an old Music Radio style.

 

[tk]

Thanks. Yeah, listening to all these records and stuff I listen to alot of good (well in my opinion, good) songs that the oldies stations should play. People listen to an oldies station and think that Jefferson Airplane had two songs "White Rabbit" and "Somebody To Love." They had a ton of great songs. You'll never hear "Volunteers." Same thing with Steppenwolf. They play two songs and we know what they are ;D. They had several good albums out though. Alot of Jimi Hendrix's stuff would fit in well on the oldies format. So would early Pink Floyd. If they would dig deeper and get some exciting sounding dj's, they could easily get more listeners, even pick up alot of younger listeners. The kids these days are fascinated with this time period and the music and if they could get the chance to hear some of it instead of like you said, 20 songs over and over, they would like it. There was enough stuff recorded between the mid 50's and the mid 70's to play for months with no repeating at all if they wanted.

Jimi Hendrix? Pink Floyd? Even Airplane's songs belong more on a rock station than a classic top 40 station. Sounds like you need to talk to IMZ.

TK

 

[ARDONAVINDA]

What's sad is IMZ won't really even play much of those classic artists other cuts anymore. But yea those artists are your typical "classic rock" contenders, songs like Purple Haze, Hey Joe, Foxy Lady, Volunteers by the Airplane, You keep me hanging on by Vanilla Fudge, Hush by Deep Purple, even Floyd's Money or earlier cuts like See Emilly Play, & Arnold Lane all were realesed as well onto the Top 40 chart in their day. I think when programming the music for a sucsessful Classic Top 40 you can make room for those guys, I wouldn't put them into regular rotation, but they would come up now and then as maybe a heavy gold feature, you know give it some sort of spotlight so it remains an "Oh Wow" record and not get burned out to soon. The key really for me is to constantly keep up with your music scheduler, you have to manage it, you have to take things out for a rest, put new gold cuts in to replace the resting cuts. What most MD's or PD's are guilty of doing is getting their music scheduler set up and then just leave it to churn out what it churns out. You've got to maintain it. Maybe not as much as you would if you were a current T-40 but still needs to be worked with. But this is just the oppinions expressed of one man who lives and breathes Classic Top-40.

 

[RMarino]

The "classic rock" format today is not the "classic rock" format of about 15-20 years ago. Back then the music centered around the Woodstock era, going through the '70s and including about one '80s cut an hour. These days, it's about 60% 1980s hair bands and 40% 1970s arena rock bands. Sorry ARDONAVINDA, you won't hear any of those songs on a "modern" classic rock station, except for the Hendrix cuts.

Lately I have been a little impressed with 105.7 The Hog. Once in awhile they sound like a good classic rock station used to. Yeah they do focus on the bigger hits, but they play a lot of artists that WIMZ won't touch.

 

[Knoxradiolstnr]

You're right. They have a heck of alot more variety then WIMZ. I've heard stuff on there that I had never heard on the radio before...period. But today I listened to WIMZ because I couldn't pick up The Hog and heard some deeper cuts on WIMZ that they haven't played in a while. Time Of The Season by The Zombies was one of them that I heard. I had to double check to make sure it was WIMZ and not Oldies. I wish they would do something to freshen up a little bit. I have listened to that station from day one - but over the past decade they have been sickening to listen to. Same songs repeated over and over again. Alice Cooper's show is the only time they play decent stuff anymore. Maybe by WIMZ playing this deeper stuff over the past few days, they are tweaking their playlist to keep people from going to The Hog. But, where I live "The Hog" signal is loud and clear but would it's signal reach us good enough to even be considered competition though.