oldies survey

[w00t]

and by the middle 80s, there were few BM stations remaining.

Ironically now though, there are a lot of stations that remind you of a BM.

Sorry, it had to be said.

 

[XTalker]

A lot of the BM principles apply to today's formats - long music sweeps, fewer commercial breaks, little or no personality, lots of positioning liners, very limited service (news, weather, etc).

From the target audience perspective, there are formats today who's audience is aging out of the money demos.

This has been the problem for "oldies" stations that try to recreate the sixties and do little or nothing to attract a younger listener. Oldies can still command decent cume, but the demos are too old to be a major (ratings based) sales success.

IMHO, to be successful, an oldies station needs a regional flavor, some decent on-air personalities, and a sales staff that understands relationship (rather than ratings) selling! We've had this discussion before - there is a lot of money in the hands of the older demos - problem is finding the product or business who is willing to play to them - that takes real sellers rather than order takers.

 

[KrisAbrams]

Personally I liked Oldies 93 in the late 90's ;D But i may be biased.

Now I spend more time with KOOL-FM/Phoenix. But, again...biased.

Greensboro and Charlotte were great oldies/classic hits markets. WMQX and WWMG knocked down top 5 books year after year. And, similarily, both were killed off while they still were very viable radio stations.

Hi to all my GBO/NC friends - hope everyone is well. Phoenix is great...just a little warm this time of year


Kris Abrams
PD WMQX/Oldies 93 1996-1997
OM KOOL-FM/Phoenix

 

[MaxGM]

HEY.... what about the mid-90's?!?

Mike "Moose" Smith
WMQX PD 1993-1994 & 1998

Personally I liked Oldies 93 in the late 90's ;D But i may be biased.

Now I spend more time with KOOL-FM/Phoenix. But, again...biased.

Greensboro and Charlotte were great oldies/classic hits markets. WMQX and WWMG knocked down top 5 books year after year. And, similarily, both were killed off while they still were very viable radio stations.

Hi to all my GBO/NC friends - hope everyone is well. Phoenix is great...just a little warm this time of year


Kris Abrams
PD WMQX/Oldies 93 1996-1997
OM KOOL-FM/Phoenix

 

[XTalker]

And the Early 90s. I was PD from 1990-1992 - 92-MIX but changed to Oldies. I built the infamous Juke Box trailer!

 

[jmobooku]

Excuuuuuuuse meeeeeeee! X-Talker and all you "oldies experts".....but BM formatics DO NOT APPLY to an Oldies format at all. If all you programming geniuses will recall the daze of WABC, WLS, WKBW,yes, even WKIX...and any OTHER TOP-40 radio GIANT.....it was ALLLLLLL PERSONALITY! Sometimes the music was secondary to the "HUMAN" on the radio. People tuned in to hear their favorite HUMAN....not a musical JUKEBOX. Do you think that Cousin' Brucie or Dick Biondi, Murray the "K"....and oh yes, Rick Dees (on WKIX) could've scored those ratings by just "playing the hits" with nothing in-between???? What the hell are you people smokin'? Give the demos some PERSONALITY (but that of course is impossible, because the cheap b**tards who own stations now won't pay) and you will cause so much talk in the marketplace with your demo that your toupees will curl!)

 

[MaxGM]

What thread are YOU on?!? BM Formatics?!? Not during my time!! I got the job in Greensboro because I did a personality show in Mid-Days at WTRG-Oldies 100.7. The new owners at the time, Max Media(who I still work for) wanted me to to create that type of feel we had at Oldies 100.7 in Raleigh on Oldies 93, which, over time, we did. Jack Armstrong was the morning guy during my second tour there (hired by Kris above and Gary Weiss). I can't speak for X-Talkers time.... although his bosses at the time (in my opinion) didi not have a clue even though X-Talker did! BM formatic?!? BS!

Moose

Excuuuuuuuse meeeeeeee! X-Talker and all you "oldies experts".....but BM formatics DO NOT APPLY to an Oldies format at all. If all you programming geniuses will recall the daze of WABC, WLS, WKBW,yes, even WKIX...and any OTHER TOP-40 radio GIANT.....it was ALLLLLLL PERSONALITY! Sometimes the music was secondary to the "HUMAN" on the radio. People tuned in to hear their favorite HUMAN....not a musical JUKEBOX. Do you think that Cousin' Brucie or Dick Biondi, Murray the "K"....and oh yes, Rick Dees (on WKIX) could've scored those ratings by just "playing the hits" with nothing in-between???? What the hell are you people smokin'? Give the demos some PERSONALITY (but that of course is impossible, because the cheap b**tards who own stations now won't pay) and you will cause so much talk in the marketplace with your demo that your toupees will curl!)

 

[KrisAbrams]

LOL, time flies Moose. And i think you came back in '99...I made a mistake on my sig on my dates. All I know is I never should have left for Milwaukee '98...'99...whenver it was - it all blurs together.

Any way, Moose is on the money. Oldies 93 was a high profile personality driven radio station. Play hits - have fun. And worked. We had a three year run of of top five 25-54 books...even a number one where we beat my good friend Big Paul and TQR. You can have great personality - and play hits. Try it some time.

 

[MaxGM]

You're probably right on that. Damn getting old sucks!

LOL, time flies Moose. And i think you came back in '99...I made a mistake on my sig on my dates. All I know is I never should have left for Milwaukee '98...'99...whenver it was - it all blurs together.

Any way, Moose is on the money. Oldies 93 was a high profile personality driven radio station. Play hits - have fun. And worked. We had a three year run of of top five 25-54 books...even a number one where we beat my good friend Big Paul and TQR. You can have great personality - and play hits. Try it some time.

 

[VODood]

Just for fun, I want to hear some opinions about the best/worst oldies stations, and why one format is better than the rest. Naturally, I have a few candidates in mind......WTHZ has a sensible mix of classics and post-60s rock, at least thats my impression based on my own sporadic listening. WWMY is, of course, the most "pure" oldies outlet, as far as I can tell, and is probably the only such station of relevance, as far as the Triangle goes (just a guess). WPCM is a very odd duck. calls itself "oldies and beach" which apparently means oldies + Chairman of the Board once per hour + some obscure stuff I've never heard of. Obviously, its a niche format, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the one time I actually listened to the station for 20 minutes on a Monday afternoon, I heard what must have been the boss's daughter playing DJ with no formal training whatsoever. Hideous.

So who am I neglecting to mention, besides the River, which I wouldnt really characterize as oldies (but if you want to, i won't try to stop you), and other classic rock leaning formats

The River isn't even "classic hits"....more like classic rock "lite"

WNCT/Greenville NC is a very well done "oldies/pop classic hits" station. Although I'm not a fan of VO Jim Merkel. I prefer Jeff Laurence or Charlie Van Dyke. Even John Driscoll.

And "surf" will take offense to Y102-9 being an "oldies" station, LOL

 

[VODood]

I think 1977 plus or minus one year is where the Oldies format ends. From there on
there were other formats coming on the scene: Album Rock, Progressive, Disco, Black,
the first AC stations. By the late 70s people were dialing to a station that catered more
specifically to them, and on FM. The shared Top 40 radio listening experience began to
end and splinter off.

The next generation Oldies format is Adult Hits as represented by Jack, and Bob, and Simon, and Mike,
and even Jill. Classic Rock has to be considered an Oldies format now.

The "old" oldies parameter was 1956-1979, ending about 2001-02.

Today's "oldies" parameter/era, IMO, is 1963-1980. And of course "You Got It" (1988), "Kokomo" (1988) and "Centerfield" (1985) can be played.

The core being 1968-1980.

With that said I believe theme weekends and specialty shows can be 1956-1979. Depends on your market, market history, median age of the market, etc.


Hell...even classic rock stations are getting long in the tooth and should roll off everything under 1968.

 

[VODood]

In 1978, there were no formats revolving around 20 year old songs.

What? "Oldies" was born at WCBS-FM about 1973 - featuring songs that were 20 years old.

 

[VODood]

IMHO, to be successful, an oldies station needs a regional flavor, some decent on-air personalities, and a sales staff that understands relationship (rather than ratings) selling! We've had this discussion before - there is a lot of money in the hands of the older demos - problem is finding the product or business who is willing to play to them - that takes real sellers rather than order takers.

Agreed. And also, "oldies/pop classic hits' stations need to be CONTENT and PERSONALITY oriented. ENTERTAIN people. Ipods can't provide content and entertain via a talented perfomer, ie on air talent.

Programmers today need to cultivate and coach talent. NOT coach to read a liner card.


RE: K-Earth.

That station is ok.

KOOL/Phoenix is MUCH better.


A great syndicated show is "Into the 60s" with Gary Bryan (KEarth morning host). Really well done show. AS if Charlie Tuna's "70s" program.

One show I can't stand.... "American Hit List" PUKE!

 

[VODood]

HEY.... what about the mid-90's?!?

Mike "Moose" Smith
WMQX PD 1993-1994 & 1998

Personally I liked Oldies 93 in the late 90's ;D But i may be biased.

Now I spend more time with KOOL-FM/Phoenix. But, again...biased.

Greensboro and Charlotte were great oldies/classic hits markets. WMQX and WWMG knocked down top 5 books year after year. And, similarily, both were killed off while they still were very viable radio stations.

Hi to all my GBO/NC friends - hope everyone is well. Phoenix is great...just a little warm this time of year


Kris Abrams
PD WMQX/Oldies 93 1996-1997
OM KOOL-FM/Phoenix

WMJI/Cleveland was the pre-eminent and dominant "oldies" station in America mid 90s to about 2003. Five Marconi awards between 1998-2005. R&R Large Market Station of the Year as well (1998).

I was there 1994-2000. I recall a run of 23 consecutive #1 P25-54 books (which continued for a bit after I left). WMJI had more #1 12 books in the 90s than any other Cleveland station. I believe it was 10.

Now....WMJI sounds like sh*t! About 3-4 dead segs an hour (dead segs should be outlawed. Poor programming), imaging is lack luster and the talent, outside of AM drive is robotic.

PM drive WMJI dropped out of the Top 10 P25-54 Spring book '08 for the first time since 1997. WMJI's AM drive icon John Lanigan is still #1 P25-54.


*After WMJI I went to WTRG/Raleigh NC. Loved it there! We did our best. Sales team sucked.



Side note to Kris Abrams. I have an aircheck, on www.reelradio.com, of you calling in to the 1997 (Oct) WMJI/WIXY Reunion Weekend when Jack Armstrong was doing a Sat night show. Great stuff!



Chuck Matthews
http://chuckmatthews.voices.com

 

[VODood]

Tried to post this in the previous reply... didn't take...

"Oldies/classic hits" is NOT a 25-54 format. It's just not. It's 35-64. The format may do well 25-54 in some markets, but it's still a 35-64 format with a 45-54 core. Of course you won't be getting as much national as you did in the past. And it will continue to drop. But that's what a LOCAL SALES TEAM is there for.

LOTS of $$$ locally 35-64.




And congrats to Kris and KOOL/Phoenix on Spring 2008
allaccess.com 8/11

CBS Classic Hits KOOL rebounded nicely from a few off books.

25-54: CLEAR CHANNEL Hot AC KMXP dips from 2nd to 3rd, tying them with KOOL -- which surges all the way from 16th place -- nearly doubling their winter share.

Ok... i think I'm finally done

 

[Hourly]

I'm glad Chuck checked in with a "sales team sucked" comment. It's always their fault in Chuck's world.

 

[VODood]

I'm glad Chuck checked in with a "sales team sucked" comment. It's always their fault in Chuck's world.

Yes it is when the programming dept does it's job and sales can't generate revenue.

If programming doesn't do it's job, then I'd point a finger there. That wasn't the case @ WTRG. Were you there when I was? If not then you don't know.

At WMJI the Sales team was GREAT! They could sell ice cream to an eskimo. No issues. WMJI has been the #1 revenue station in Cleveland for almost 10 years.

I praise when appropriate and will call out those that need it.

 

[CCAlumni]

Chuck may be right about the sales team when he was at WTRG, but I have to be honest and say the station wasn't all that good from 2001 until it signed off. To me Oldies 100.7 hit its best sound and ratings when Randal C. Bliss and then Andy Holt were there. Maybe the station had better imaging when Chuck was on board but I can't say it was that great. Sorry.

 

[VODood]

Chuck may be right about the sales team when he was at WTRG, but I have to be honest and say the station wasn't all that good from 2001 until it signed off. To me Oldies 100.7 hit its best sound and ratings when Randal C. Bliss and then Andy Holt were there. Maybe the station had better imaging when Chuck was on board but I can't say it was that great. Sorry.

Entitled to your opinion. No harm.

I will say the station went through three different VO's and three PD's between 2000 and sign off November 2004.Charlie Van Dyke was the VO when I arrived May 2000. Then we went to the late Chuck Riley b/c Van Dyke wanted more money. Riley came on Fall 2001 (I think). Then we went to Jeff Laurence spring 2003 to the flip. Of the three I personally prefer Jeff.

Three PD's in the same span; Al Connnors was blown out just before I arrived. Like days before. APD Joe Friday took over for a short time. Was fired a few months later. Dave Solomon came over from WMQX/Greensboro late 2000. He left late 2002. Steve Cannon came in from Memphis Feb 2003 and left Nov 2003 for Tallahassee. Cannon scheduled the music via Tally til May 2004. I did everything else. OM Jon Robbins took over the music roughly June 2004. He axed all theme weekends and features. Instituted "Sunday at the 70s". A good idea...but poorly executed. 70s rock was played; Bowie, Clapton, Wet Willie and more. WRDU fare. We should've played POP 70s. The former sounded out of place on the station. If the P1s tuned in they were like "what the f*@k??". One good thing that happened is that JB&B were finally axed late August 2004.... and numbers actually went UP with a Voicetracked AM show. First it was Dave Mason from San Diego, then it was WXLY's Kain Cameron for the last month or so the station was on the air.

To much change in too short a time. And JB&B were an albatross for a male/female format. Thank you Buddy Scott!

Three different sounds and programming philosophies every 18 months on average. As well as music changes. Tough for the station to "sit still" long enough for listeners to get used to what was happening.

WTRG was live only in middays from November 2003 to the flip. My friend Bill Shannon (now @ WODB/Columbus OH) VT'd via WXLY/Charleston where he was PD at the time. Nights were tracked by WMJI's Dawn Robinson. I tracked nights near the flip... and Sundays and whatever else had to be tracked.

More live weekend dayparts than weekdays. And then the station was saddled by Corporate with John Boy and Billy from summer 2001 to Aug 2004. John Boy and Billy killed the station. Drove away females. Sure WTRG was #1 M25-54, often beating WRDU. But w/o female demos the station withered quickly. Hell, I was the Promotions Director, acting PD, Imaging Director, and voicetracked two shows the last six months the station was on the air. Can only do smoke n mirrors for so long.

 

[w00t]

Of the various 2000-format flip varieties of 100.7, IMO the station sounded the best during the Dave Solomon era. He was a great jock for that station. And only with Charlie Van Dyke... I still think he's a great VO for that format.