Oldies Will be Back In Buffalo

[Mike Sheridan]

Yeah, my nephews ages 18 & 21 have a lot of 60's & 70's on their computers too. They don't even seem to know they are oldies.

Mine know but they don't care. They like what they like and don't want to be told what they should like by clueless CHR programmers. They don't like rap, with the exception of Will Smith. The more current music they listen to is not found on the radio but rather from TV, movies, or friends. I like some of the newer stuff they listen to as well.

I know they aren't the mainstream but they are big music listeners who like me enjoy digging deeper for music they like.

 

[cee]

The Hopeless World of WJJL

JJL would have been an entirely different proposition if they had built out their CP for a power hike, which IIRC was for 5 kW-D, 1 kW-N, DA-2. It was going to throw big lobes over the cities of Niagara Falls and Buffalo and their nearby burbs. They could have actually reached out and served the cities they're trying to reach. And a serious stab at a format like personality gold might have been possible and economically viable.

With all due respect, KB - with a 50KW signal and legendary call letters - tried personality driven gold earlier this decade and didn't do well. I worked at several AM stations in Buffalo & Rochester and miss the good old days of AM music radio - but - for the most part, it's all over. If Entercom had put KB on one of their FM stations they would have drawn a big audience. If JJL could run a half decent Oldies presentation on FM, they would get a big audience. But AM is basically dead. There are the few heritage talkers like WBEN, WGR & WHAM, a few NPR stations -- and the rest is the lowly rated(or not rated at all). Brian Cashdollar did the right thing late last year when he leased WHLD over to an urban gospel group(though thank goodness he's still running Democracy Now). JJL should be a community station, superserving the greater Niagara Falls community.

 

[NeedsMoreCowbell]

What this board seems to always revert back to is: "Well I like this music/this jock/how things used to be," therefore anything that ISN'T what I like is wrong - regardless of the facts. The post I read about jocks under 25 who "won't get it" unless they learn from all the old pros - i.e. the ones posters on this board listened to when they were young - is laughably narrow-minded. How, pray tell, are the radio youth of today going to "study" the mastery of the Bennys, Shannons, and Neaverths of the past? And more importantly, how is that even relevant to anything that is happening in radio today?

Another common theme on this board is how no one listens to radio anymore, satellite radio and iPods are taking over, blah blah blah - but have you seen the massive cume being reported in Houston and Philly for good old fashioned traditional radio, as measured by the PPM? It sure doesn't sound like radio is dead to me, with B101 - sleepy AC station that it is - pulling 2 MILLION listeners at a time.

Time marches on, and whether we think the young turks in charge of radio today are ready, or deserve to be in charge, is entirely irrelevant. They're there, and most of us are not anymore. I, for one, am interested to see what the next decade of radio will bring.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

Move WJJL back to the border...right close to the Rainbow Bridge. There are some former CHSC (AM 1220) staff that would love to do something with that station without having to travel too deep into the States. (and without having to use a car to get there.)

 

[SpareChange]

I think WJJL is sounding better (segues-several tunes not playing at the same time...etc.) since Steve Mitchell is programming the computer and stroking the processing. The signal is what it is, but at least, when the music automation is in play, it moves along more listenably.

Wasn't he responsible for the music on KB? At the suggestion of some on this thread, I've tried to listen to WJJL but it's not very good. It sounds as if it's coming out of a telephone. After getting used to hearing music on FM, music on AM, including CHUM-AM, just doesn't pass muster.

 

[cee]

I've tried to listen to WJJL but it's not very good. It sounds as if it's coming out of a telephone. After getting used to hearing music on FM, music on AM, including CHUM-AM, just doesn't pass muster.

I would agree. There is a string of posts, on another radio-info board, on this very subject: Oldies on AM vs. FM. As much as my heart would like to side with AM, everything sounds better on FM. CHUM is a great oldies station, but the sound quality just doesn't make it. Of course, WJJL is another story. The voice coming out of the little speaker at the Burger King drive in window("would you like fries with that?") sounds better than they do.

BTW, not that I am dumb enough to daydream about buying it, but how much would WJJL(in it's current state) be worth? Anyone care to guess? Just curious.

 

[jim8230]

I would guess WJJL can bring in about $40,000 tops. (Although they seem to think its worth one million dollars!)

 

[Yeziknoradio]

As much as my heart would like to side with AM, everything sounds better on FM. CHUM is a great oldies station, but the sound quality just doesn't make it.

The CRTC in Canada seems to still be in the business of trying to protect AM radio.
It is still illegal for an FM outlet in Canada to go all oldies (excluding FM repeaters in some markets where the AM isn't serving the community of licence well enough.)

Let's forget for a second that the FM dial in Toronto Canada is already "full".
If there were an FM spot on the dial to move 1050 to, the new owners (CTV/BGM group) would not be allowed to maintain the same oldies format due to current FM regs. (I believe it's a pre 81' issue)

I guess then, that there is no demand on the Canadian side for an FM oldies station anyway, since no one out of Buffalo is trying to serve Canada on FM with an oldies based format.

 

[Radknowski]

I would guess WJJL can bring in about $40,000 tops. (Although they seem to think its worth one million dollars!)

It's nice for people to have dreams. Their bankruptcy filing a few years ago placed assets around $87,000. If there's any goodwill, it comes largely from Lenny Rico's Italian show. I'd "guesstimate" market value of this station at $100 thousand. That would be generous.

 

[caveman-97]

The value of a radio station is based more on its POTENTIAL audience than on its present audience. Everyone who buys a station thinks he can take it to number one by improving management. WJJL can be heard by close to a million people. If they were to implement their construction permit, the potential audience would increase. The $1 millon estimate is probably much closer than the $100 K. Very likely there is some fool in the United States who would pay some big bucks to enter the WNY market. On the other hand, there is no telling how much the Phillips folks think WJJL is worth. Would they sell for a million?

 

[ThePickleReport]

The value of a radio station is based more on its POTENTIAL audience than on its present audience. Everyone who buys a station thinks he can take it to number one by improving management. WJJL can be heard by close to a million people. If they were to implement their construction permit, the potential audience would increase. The $1 millon estimate is probably much closer than the $100 K. Very likely there is some fool in the United States who would pay some big bucks to enter the WNY market. On the other hand, there is no telling how much the Phillips folks think WJJL is worth. Would they sell for a million?

I understand your point to a degree. But, any sane individual isn't going to pay for potential for an AM with a marginal signal and that probably needs six-figures worth of repairs/improvements. Again, if we're talking SANE individuals I'd say the ceiling would have to be $200k, and that might be high IMHO.

 

[Mike Sheridan]

A new and improved WJJL even though the station has been on for years would be considered a "start up" operation. I have never seen a start up AM get much in the way of ratings. WBEN and at least one or maybe two others in most markets can still get respectible ratings but they had a strong base to start with for years. Other than those exceptions AM is dead. Lots of reasons for that....man made static on AM is worse than ever everything from LED traffic lights to computer and power line noise goes unchecked. People are now used to the better sound quality of FM. As some of the markets expand the directional AM's can't cover some areas, FM doesn't have this problem.

As a fan of AM it's hard to admit but the days of AM except for the few that are making it now...is over. IF I owned WJJL and someone came along with a million dollars and wanted to buy it I'd jump at it!

 

[Element9]

"Potential?" Not these days. Not for a stand-alone AM daytimer. Nope.

A big-stick FM in a top 25 market might be appraised at "potential" or "projected cash flow" but that formula wouldn't come close to being applied to a station like WJJL. The sale price would be based on "trailing cash flow" and assets such as physical plant, key management personnel, receivables, real estate, goodwill and other positive and negaitive tangibles, such as the station having gone through a bankruptcy proceding and having been fined by the FCC.

As more than a few posters have noted, investing in AM radio is risky. More risky when considering a station such as WJJL. It would make more sense for an operator like Lou Schriver to buy it and bundle it with his existing WXRL. Lou, being the shrewd businessman he is, would likely offer $87,365.27. As with anything, there's the "sticker price" and the actual price. The actual price of WJJL would be much closer to $100K than $1000K (as the Brits say.)

-9-

 

[caveman-97]

When's the last time an AM station in the Buffalo area got sold? What did it go for?

 

[Element9]

When's the last time an AM station in the Buffalo area got sold? What did it go for?

WSPQ, Springville, 1330 kHz, 1kW, fulltime, assets for cash, approximately $110K.


WDOE, Dunkirk, 1410 kHz, 1kW D, 500W N, was sold with WBKX-FM, 96.5 MHz, Fredonia for approximately $1M+ for both properties, largely due to the value of the FM, although it's likely the AM has substantial cash flow on its own merit.

(Compound sentences not withstanding.)

-9-

 

[caveman-97]

Neither of those AM stations has much of a signal in Buffalo. Nothing that compares with that of WJJL, especially if they utilize their construction permit.

 

[SirRoxalot]

There are several stations, like 1400 and 1230, who have a much better signal than WJJL and aren't exactly knocking down big money at this point.

 

[cee]

There are several stations, like 1400 and 1230, who have a much better signal than WJJL and aren't exactly knocking down big money at this point.

Exactly. And once again, if 50,000 Watt KB couldn't make an impact with Danny back in mornings then how could any other low rated AM make it?

Most people don't listen to AM. AM is not a big deal anymore. To quote the great Roy Orbison, "It's Over."

 

[Yeziknoradio]

There are several stations, like 1400 and 1230, who have a much better signal than WJJL and aren't exactly knocking down big money at this point.

Exactly. And once again, if 50,000 Watt KB couldn't make an impact with Danny back in mornings then how could any other low rated AM make it?

Most people don't listen to AM. AM is not a big deal anymore. To quote the great Roy Orbison, "It's Over."

I disagree to a point.
If DAB (digital audio broadcasting) were to catch on in Canada, AM and FM would have been on par. That's what AM may need in Buffalo.
The ability to be on par with FM and the freedom to flick a switch on the radio that makes AM sound AM, or FM if the listener chooses to have either sound for their choice of (mainly classic?) music.

 

[Radknowski]

I disagree to a point.If DAB (digital audio broadcasting) were to catch on in Canada, AM and FM would have been on par. That's what AM may need in Buffalo.
The ability to be on par with FM and the freedom to flick a switch on the radio that makes AM sound AM, or FM if the listener chooses to have either sound for their choice of (mainly classic?) music.

Yezi, there are a lot of folks in the biz in the States who believe the Canadians and CRTC had the right idea by allocating a portion of the AM band to DAB so as not to cause interference with stations on co-channel frequencies near and far.

IMHO, AM will never be on par with FM as far as technical capabities, for any number of reasons, bandwidth and interference being foremost, emerging Internet technologies being the other threats. AM HD or DAB (call it what we will) isn't a panacea, it's a ruse (as I believe FM HD is), which I equate with what happened years ago with AM Stereo.

BTW, there are many engineers who strongly supported the benefits of AM Stereo, but felt strongly that the FCC should have stepped in and decided on ONE particular AM Stereo standard, as it did with FM Stereo many years earlier.

The FCC failed to make a decision as it was concerned about the potential of anti-trust litigation which might have been filed by companies which were not chosen as the "standard." The FCC held the opinion that such litigation would have held up the AM Stereo decision making process and hurt AM broadcasters and as a government agency, did not want to be caught in the middle of such litigation.

As it turned out, broadcasters were left to guess which AM Stero system worked best, and in casino-like fashion, placed their bets on the standard they felt would win the AM Stereo war and the public's preference. As it turned out, this lead to consumer chaos and many companies lost large amounts of money "betting on the wrong" AM Stereo process.

Although iBiquity has been chosen as the standard, I think AM HD is doomed and FM HD isn't far behind. I'm no Luddite, I just feel history can teach us some very important lessons.

Just my buck tree eighty.