On Air Consoles

[TomT]

It does, but it is easy to accidentally disconnect those extra ground wires when you move equipment to clean, etc. (Isn't it always the case, when you have everything pulled out and you are sucking up the dust bunnies, that you get an important phone call?).

 

[Play Freebird]

I once had to deal with the shortcomings of RCA connectors and unbalanced inputs at a station on the 17th floor of an office building about a mile from a TV/FM antenna farm (several megawatts of VHF and UHF ERP in total.) RF came right through the windows and the sync buzz was detected by the transistors in the input stages of a Tascam multitrack production console and tape machine.

We replaced all of the interconnect cables (the cheap consumer-grade type that use leaky spiral-wrapped shields) with homebrew cables made from RG-58 and all-metal Switchcraft RCA plugs. This measure alone reduced the RF noise by over 10 dB. Addition of 3" ground strap from the board to the processing rack got the ground-loop hum under control.

 

[Chuck]

I wouldn't debate the merits of a real balanced input over any unbalanced input. It is obviously superior, but it is fair to point out that a lot of stuff seems to work just fine with unbalanced connections, even with RCA Jacks. For a lot of situations, balancing everything simply is not worth the trouble.

One of the really weak points of the RCA connector becomes quite noticeable if it is plugged and unplugged frequently. It was never designed for that kind of service. Instead, it was intended to be a "set and forget" connector that was only removed for service. If you leave them alone, you are unlikely to have many problems. Something that has always bothered me about the RCA connector is it connects "hot" first then ground. That is not great idea for any connector. Still, they are everywhere, and for most purposes, they really do work OK.

This is especially true if you are using consumer grade source gear including tape decks, CD players and computers. You may not be able to avoid them on the source end of the audio chain, so why bother at the mixer end? There is little point in buying a pair of Jensen transformers for a three foot run, unless upon installation, you discover you have a problem. Once again, 99.99% of the time they work fine.

It is not that I'm a big fan of these connectors. I'm not. In fact, until we started getting inundated by three circuit mini plugs, I thought RCA's were the worst audio connector in the world. That title has been taken over by the mini-plug which seem to be a loose connection waiting for a place to happen.

That said, not everyone is using this equipment in a mission critical role. For many, price and ease of set up is a very big consideration. That's why you find companies like Wheatstone and Arakis selling broadcast consoles with RCA connectors. People will buy them, and they work "good enough."

 

[Duncan Park]

We have a grand mix of consumer (Unbalanced) and professional (Balanced) equipment. The pro stuff wants to see a +4 level while the consumer level is -10. We have to pad some stuff and boost others depending on the connections. Then there's crosstalk everywhere. The on Air computers are equipped with professional sound cards with the balanced ins and outs, then there's a number of production units using the unbalanced on board audio cards often connected to a DA which has to be trimmed way back and/or a significant pad included. It's a nightmare.

 

[Dndsh237]

Yes one of the earlier CD automation systems from the-then Century21 Programjmming folks, did use Pioneer 6 disc CD changers. The model # was PDM600, IIRC. Century21 had an auto-segue box that sit in the same rack as the players. The RCA outs from the Pioneer changers went into the AS box, and the AS box outputs were balanced XLR's.

You can use consumer gear, and it is extremely common. It's cheaper to replace when the equipment dies.

Heck even pro-gear lifespan is becoming shorter. They just don't make 'em like they used to.

Grab some RDL "stick on" balancing boxes and put them next to your consumer gear. Keep your RCA cable runs under three feet. It works.

 

[littlejohn]

While there is at times argument about the creation of the cosmos, there is none about the creation of the Matchbox <tm>. Buy some and correct your unbalance problems.

 

[nightfly61]

???

What's so bad about RCA audio connectors and consumer gear in a broadcast studio? I know of installations that are using consumer gear and it works.

The increased amount of hum and susceptibility to RF are two bad things about unbalanced that I can think of right off the bat. And don't forget the durability factor (RCAs are MUCH less robust than XLRs) and the inherent lower audio quality of consumer gear (because it's built with the cheapest parts available) and that pretty much tells you why pro studios run ONLY balanced connections.

But ya GOTTA have at least one or 2 sets of RCA inputs, especially in a newsroom for MD recorders(very handy for interviews) or if someone happens to bring in an old fashioned...hack, cassette spot that needs dubbed?

 

[OttoM]

But ya GOTTA have at least one or 2 sets of RCA inputs, especially in a newsroom for MD recorders(very handy for interviews) or if someone happens to bring in an old fashioned...hack, cassette spot that needs dubbed?

Absolutely. Having a place to plug in an unbalanced unit or two is a given. As noted above you'd grab a Matchbox (or equivalent) to connect these units to your balanced systems.

But you COULD get a pre-owned Tascam 122 or a minidisc with balanced I/Os...

 

[Dndsh237]

But ya GOTTA have at least one or 2 sets of RCA inputs, especially in a newsroom for MD recorders(very handy for interviews) or if someone happens to bring in an old fashioned...hack, cassette spot that needs dubbed?

Absolutely. Having a place to plug in an unbalanced unit or two is a given. As noted above you'd grab a Matchbox (or equivalent) to connect these units to your balanced systems.

But you COULD get a pre-owned Tascam 122 or a minidisc with balanced I/Os...

Cassettes never should have been in radio to begin with, for anything otther than maybe capturing air-checks and demo tapes. I still cannot believe spots were mailed in via cassettes. Some of them were really poor quality!

 

[Fenway Frank]

???

What's so bad about RCA audio connectors and consumer gear in a broadcast studio? I know of installations that are using consumer gear and it works.

I hope you aren't serious? Why would a station spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on professional broadcast equipment if they could chuck a few domestic CD players into the back of a Numark DJ mixer and use that?

The simple answer to that question is that there are plenty of stations that do not have hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend on professional broadcast equipment. I saw several stations in the 90s, one of which was in a top 50 market, using a commercially marketed form of CD automation (I don't know which company marketed these) that consisted of a couple of racks outfitted with consumer grade Pioneer CD units. Somebody here may be familiar with those. They weren't real good, but they were affordable for stations with small budgets and they worked...most of the time.

Every station would love to be equipped with state of the art, balanced pro quality equipment, but few stations in smaller markets can budget it. I saw a number of stations using cheap consumer grade CD players in the 90s, some of which had the audio fed from the headphone output to the console. The impedence mismatch would scare most people, but the fact is that the average listener couldn't tell the difference between hearing music from one of those $100 consumer CD players and the music on a another station coming from a $1500 Denon CD Cart.

Hey Cat,

I totally understand about stations not having budget. Worked for a couple of stations that went that way. What probably will surprise you is that even the big guys watch how much they spend and how often they spend it. I have been inside of almost every major station east of the Mississippi and while you will see some showplace studios, more often than not you'll be shocked at what these big, legendary stations have in their studios.

In some cases they bought top of the line stuff, but that was 25 years ago. Its kind of like buying a nice car and keeping it til the wheels fall off. Then you just break out the gaffers tape, a coat hanger and some bubble yum. Ahh back in business.

 

[grich]

It does, but it is easy to accidentally disconnect those extra ground wires when you move equipment to clean, etc. (Isn't it always the case, when you have everything pulled out and you are sucking up the dust bunnies, that you get an important phone call?).

Sucking up dust bunnies? Who has time to clean? ;D

 

[Hmmm101]

If you're looking for cost-effective but good quality (and will work very well in an AM RF field), call Dave Strode at Sandies. He picked up the old Dynamax line from LPB and they work great! I've installed 6 of these units and I'm very impressed with them. Solid steel construction, hot-swappable modular faders, remote starts, and 4 busses - 2 stereo, 2 mono. They are extremely simple to hook up and operate. No weird electronic logic controls, just mechanical switches. The faders are VCA controlled, so no scratchy pots. And repairs are fairly cheap compared to most of the other manufacturers. And it will accept balanced or unbalanced audio inputs.

http://www.sandies.com

Check it out.

 

[Dndsh237]

If you're looking for cost-effective but good quality (and will work very well in an AM RF field), call Dave Strode at Sandies. He picked up the old Dynamax line from LPB and they work great! I've installed 6 of these units and I'm very impressed with them. Solid steel construction, hot-swappable modular faders, remote starts, and 4 busses - 2 stereo, 2 mono. They are extremely simple to hook up and operate. No weird electronic logic controls, just mechanical switches. The faders are VCA controlled, so no scratchy pots. And repairs are fairly cheap compared to most of the other manufacturers. And it will accept balanced or unbalanced audio inputs.

http://www.sandies.com

Check it out.

Is your Rolodex out of date? That link brings me to a page of food!

 

[Doctor_Technical]

http://www.sandiesusa.com/

 

[RadioMan203]

I know the Arrakis ARC series consoles were brought up in this thread before, but in case you'd like more background info you can read my review just published in Radio World:

http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0051/t.15025.html

 

[grich]

If you're looking for cost-effective but good quality (and will work very well in an AM RF field), call Dave Strode at Sandies. He picked up the old Dynamax line from LPB and they work great! I've installed 6 of these units and I'm very impressed with them. Solid steel construction, hot-swappable modular faders, remote starts, and 4 busses - 2 stereo, 2 mono. They are extremely simple to hook up and operate. No weird electronic logic controls, just mechanical switches. The faders are VCA controlled, so no scratchy pots. And repairs are fairly cheap compared to most of the other manufacturers. And it will accept balanced or unbalanced audio inputs.

http://www.sandies.com

Check it out.

Acutally, this site I take care of has 3 Dynamax consoles. Two of them date to the Fidelipac era (+10 years old), and one is 7 years old (with LPB logo). They have held up well.