ONLY A MATTER OF TIME, KFI?

[davideduardo]

To: David Eduardo

A while back on this thread you metioned KSL going to simulcast mode. In that it looks like you referred to KSL
as a Clear Channel station. Wasn't KSL a Bonneville station at the time of the added FM?? Isn't KSL now
a Deseret Media owned :-\station??

KSL is a clear channel station owned by a division of the LDS (Bonneville and Deseret both being part of the Church).

The former US 1-A clear channels are 640, 650, 660, 670, 700, 720, 750, 760, 770, 780, 820, 830, 840, 870, 880, 890, 1020, 1030, 1040, 1100, 1120, 1160 (KSL), 1180, 1200, 1210.

1-B clear channels would be ones like 680, 710, 810, 740, etc.

 

[davideduardo]

Handel always claims people at KFI do not get paid much...that is why he has a side business...of course everything is relative when you drive a 8 mpg 6 series BMW, or is it 8

8mpg? I get 32mpg in my 330ci, and even 21mpg in my X3. :-*

I thought the X3 did better.. I get 25 to 27 mpg in my X5d.

 

[semoochie]

In case this wasn't entirely clear(no pun intended), the AM broadcast band is divided into "clear", "regional" and "local" channels. David named all the former Class A stations and some of the Bs. They are usually Class B because their clear channel status is not of the US but rather a different country. The remaining "clears" would be 540, 680, 690, 710, 730, 740, 800, 810, 850, 860, 900, 940, 990, 1000, 1010, 1050, 1060, 1070, 1080, 1090, 1110, 1130, 1140, 1170, 1190, 1220, 1500. 1510, 1520, 1530, 1540, 1550, 1560, 1570 and 1580. The "local" channels are 1230, 1240, 1340, 1400, 1450 and 1490. All the rest are "regional" channels, except the expanded band, from 1610 through 1700.

 

[davideduardo]

They are usually Class B because their clear channel status is not of the US but rather a different country.

Many of the B's like 1170 or 710 are shared in the US among stations that provide protection for each other. Miami, LA, Seattle and New York as directionalized primaries on 710 would be examples.

Or, the case of 810 and 680 with a 50 kw non-directional on one side of the country and a directional on the other: KGO (DA) and WGY on 810 and KNBR (non-directionals) with Boston, Raleigh, San Antonio.

And cases like 1130 with NY, a suburb of Vancouver, BC, and Shreveport sharing, with Milwaukee, Detroit, Minneapolis shoehorned in as well.

And there is 1110, a real international channel with a 50 kw in Mexico City, one in New York, another in LA and one in Toronto among others.

 

[Lopaka]

A lot of AM allocations happened before directional transmitting was perfected. The highest power stations were supposedly to offer service over wide spread rural areas yet they got pretty much allocated on the basis of population and politics (660, 710, 770, 880 all ended up in NYC, 670, 720, 890 in Chicago joined by 780 when Omaha was shifted to shared 1110). I think the pattern of designating FM and TV channels by the FCC rather than letting licensees fight over them in the courts and legislatures was the FCC's response to bitter experience with the AM allocations. KFI, so I heard, originally stood for Farmers Information; the long distance coverage. I wonder how often WEAF or WJZ did crop reports for the rural listeners of New York. It was an interesting era, seeing regulators constantly struggling to catch up to technology. Mistakes made in the '20's often continued bad effects well into the '60's.

 

[semoochie]

I'm sure that the KFI calls were sequentially issued. After the fact, they could come up with any slogan they wanted.

 

[davideduardo]

A lot of AM allocations happened before directional transmitting was perfected. The highest power stations were supposedly to offer service over wide spread rural areas...

But, the limit on power was very low and that meant that the practical daytime coverage in most places even with maximum power output was the city and the immediate surrounding area.

Of course, when this happened, mostly in the 30's, radio was most listened to at night and the idea of the daytime station was not widely employed.

Still, when the clears saw the future and tried to go to a more reasonable power, in the 500 kw range, the FCC allowed some experiments but eventually quashed the concept with finality after roughly 30 years of trying... in 1968.

KFI, so I heard, originally stood for Farmers Information; the long distance coverage.

They were assigned KFI, they made the identity out of that. But the farms were in the San Fernando Valley, the coastal areas of Ventura County and much of Orange County, including where Disneyland sits now. Go much further inland than Riverside, and you have mountains and pure desert and no farms.

It was an interesting era, seeing regulators constantly struggling to catch up to technology. Mistakes made in the '20's often continued bad effects well into the '60's.

The result of insisting on lots of local stations has resulted in less than 175 stations in all the top 100 markets being considered viable (signal reaching 80% of the population or more day and night in the home market).

 

[ChannelFlipper]

The result of insisting on lots of local stations has resulted in less than 175 stations in all the top 100 markets being considered viable (signal reaching 80% of the population or more day and night in the home market).

That is an amazing stat and a real indictment of the FCC and regulation in general.

 

[davideduardo]

The result of insisting on lots of local stations has resulted in less than 175 stations in all the top 100 markets being considered viable (signal reaching 80% of the population or more day and night in the home market).

That is an amazing stat and a real indictment of the FCC and regulation in general.

I have to say that you and Lopaka and Semoochie always bring interesting things into discussions. We may disagree, but it's disagreement in its most fun and challenging form. (Read this over a couple of times... I am not generally this mellow! ;D )

In the defense of the FRC / FCC, it's perhaps right to mention that the idea of a city pre-War was very different than in the post-War suburban sprawl era (I mean W.W. II, not Korea, Vietnam, Gulf, Iraq or Afghanistan).

Look at Cleveland, OH. The stations there... 850, 1100, 1220, 1260, 1420, 1300 were all adequate for full market coverage in the late 40's. Then came a Class 4 in the suburbs on 1490 and a daytimer on 1540, which for decades served the Black community.

Now, only 1100 barely does a good job day and night on the whole market. All the others are in some way lacking, some significantly. Yet there are a dozen FMs that do cover the market pretty well... but even then, not perfect.

Then there are the truly bad ideas of severely directional AMs and daytimers. I wonder why daytimers don't exist anywhere else? IIRC, Canada, which had a couple of daytimers in a mistaken imitation of the US (a daytimer in northern latitudes is a fearful thing) has eliminated all of them and Mexico, which paid lip service to the idea is eliminating about two/thirds of all AMs and has always considered sunset to be 7PM local time, all year around.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Then there are the truly bad ideas of severely directional AMs and daytimers. I wonder why daytimers don't exist anywhere else? IIRC, Canada, which had a couple of daytimers in a mistaken imitation of the US (a daytimer in northern latitudes is a fearful thing) has eliminated all of them and Mexico, which paid lip service to the idea is eliminating about two/thirds of all AMs and has always considered sunset to be 7PM local time, all year around.

This reminds me of Jim Healy's old show on KMPC 710 when he would specifically highlight the "changeover" at the end of his show at 6:00pm. When 710 powers down at sunset.

Healy: "Here comes the dreaded six o'clock tone in 3, 2, 1 ....did you hear it?"
Voice: "Yeah I did"

 

[Rusty Muck]

In Washington DC, All News WTOP AM was #1. When they went to FM, not only were they still #1, but now by a 2-to-1 ratio over the #2 station. They killed a popular Classical Music station to do it and are now billing $51 million a year.

Yeah, but you just answered the question there. A Classical station (even a popular one) isn't going to be a billing monster. Clear Channel's L.A. FMs are doing way better. And Bonneville (which owned WTOP at the time) is privately held...so they're not sweating impact on stock price because of a possible short-term wobble in billing.

One clarification: the classical music station, WGMS, wasn't "killed" initally with the WTOP move. Rather, it was moved to a pair of rimshot FM signals (the actual format killed off was a lukewarm hot AC format), becoming "Classical 103.9/104.1," while WTOP took WGMS' spot on the FM dial. WGMS was shut down a year later, and its' intellectual property was sold off to, and merged with, DC's prime NPR member station, when Bonneville decided to split up the two WGMS rim-shots (the two stations first went with adult hits before one signal was leased to Radio One, the other now relays WTOP).

WTOP HAD to move to FM, as it's previous AM facility, even at 50,000 watts, was very directional and missed key suburbs in Northern Virginia (the fastest growing area of the DC megaopolis). KFI is, well, the biggest darn signal in LA, 50kW non-directional at the low spot of the AM band. It doesn't have anything to worry about for the next five years (unless CC completely craters financially).

 

[davideduardo]

WTOP HAD to move to FM, as it's previous AM facility, even at 50,000 watts, was very directional and missed key suburbs in Northern Virginia (the fastest growing area of the DC megaopolis). KFI is, well, the biggest darn signal in LA, 50kW non-directional at the low spot of the AM band. It doesn't have anything to worry about for the next five years (unless CC completely craters financially).

WTOP did have a significant signal issue, but it had been partially resolved via a series of other signals on the rim of the MSA.

WTOP, like nearly all all news and news talk stations, had a major sales demo issue. They were slowly declining in market rank in the under-55 age group. In a top 10 market, where something like 30% of all radio revenue originates, much business is "transactional" meaning it is based on ratings, listener age and audience delivery.

Moving to FM has benefited nearly every well-rated but aging demo AM station, and WTOP's case is no different. The improvement in younger (meaning "under 55") demos was immediate, and the station became the #1 billing radio station in the US due in no small part to the improved 25-54 demos.

KFI is doing quite well in 25-54, but that has only been for the last 6 books or so, and the question arises as to whether this is due to improved noon to 3 and night talent, the current political and economic condition of California (and the nation... although CA has about a 35% higher jobless rate than the country as a whole) or other factors that may or may not endure. KFI is one of very few AMs doing so well in 25-54, and it's not coverage... it is content. They can probably sustain this a while longer, but eventually the 4th or 5th highest biller will cause the folks at Clear to protect the (future music royalty free) franchise by adding FM to the assortment of options that include already an ambitious and well done podcast variety, iHeart and a big AM.

To believe that success can be sustained indefinitely on AM is disingenuous.

 

[Lopaka]

Thank you David for your kind words, your range of knowledge is genuinely amazing and your posts always interesting and informative. It is very kind of you to share your knowledge, thanks, its appreciated!

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Thank you David for your kind words, your range of knowledge is genuinely amazing and your posts always interesting and informative. It is very kind of you to share your knowledge, thanks, its appreciated!

Yes David, thanks for the nice comments. But I try not to disagree with you too much; makes me look smarter that way!

 

[DJBigOne]

I thought the X3 did better.. I get 25 to 27 mpg in my X5d.
[/quote]

Yep. It's a 2008 3.0si with 30K miles. Maybe there's something wrong with it? ???

Our previous 325xi had the same size motor, but got high 20's. Our 330ci, also with the 3.0, but probably high output, gets consistently low 30's. Our X3 is a recent purchase. The motor looks far more advanced than the 325.

Sorry, I guess this a bit off topic...

 

[pianoplayer88key]

If KFI moves to FM (or wherever they move to), I would like to be able to hear them clearly on a cheap Coby pocket radio (with its antenna disconnected) anywhere that it was ever possible (back to the 1920s) to pick them up on skywave with a high-end communications receiver and beverage antenna. At an absolute minimum, I want to be able to hear them in mostly clear stereo on the new band (FM?), using a typical medium-quality portable (something between a Coby and a Tecsun PL-390 for example), at the same radius as the fringe/DXer's limit of their groundwave coverage (using a decent radio with at least an 18" ferrite loop or 4-foot air-core loop antenna) over saltwater.

 

[DJBigOne]

Reports from the Bay area: 103.7FM now ID's as KKSF-FM

Will 103.7 soon be the simulcast of News/Talk KKSF-AM 910?

Considering CC is now simulcasting in Sacramento on KBFK, after flipping 92.5, will it happen next in L.A.?

 

[LKellerIII]

Reports from the Bay area: 103.7FM now ID's as KKSF-FM

Will 103.7 soon be the simulcast of News/Talk KKSF-AM 910?

Considering CC is now simulcasting in Sacramento on KBFK, after flipping 92.5, will it happen next in L.A.?

As asked on the SF board, if CC is planning a simulcast, why would CC be spending so much effort to bring Don Bleu to 103.7? Bleu is not a talk host, he's a long-time morning drive music-radio personality. He guested on 7 Live last week to publicize the move and he made it clear that 103.7 had a Greatest Hits format. Why would he do that if a change to NewsTalk was in the offing only a week later?

http://www.oldies1037.com/main.html

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Reports from the Bay area: 103.7FM now ID's as KKSF-FM

Will 103.7 soon be the simulcast of News/Talk KKSF-AM 910?

Considering CC is now simulcasting in Sacramento on KBFK, after flipping 92.5, will it happen next in L.A.?

As asked on the SF board, if CC is planning a simulcast, why would CC be spending so much effort to bring Don Bleu to 103.7? Bleu is not a talk host, he's a long-time morning drive music-radio personality. He guested on 7 Live last week to publicize the move and he made it clear that 103.7 had a Greatest Hits format. Why would he do that if a change to NewsTalk was in the offing only a week later?

http://www.oldies1037.com/main.html

You are probably correct, but it wouldn't be the first time the replaced host was the last to know and was seen leaving the building with a knife in his back.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

103.7 is KKSF-FM now because they appropriated the calls for 910's new talk format relaunch as "NewsTalk 910 KKSF".

In reality, I don't think "Oldies 103.7" uses the call letters except at legal ID time, so it's no skin off its back.

I see no indication that 103.7 is moving into a simulcast. Armstrong & Getty are staying on 910, why bring in a well-known music radio name for AM drive on 103.7 if it was going away?