Optimod 8000A Thoughts

[Groove1670]

I am on a strict budget and I am looking at a Optimod 8000A. I would like to hear comments on this processor. What would you put in front of it (if anything to enhance the quality. Is anyone using one at their station. How competitive is the the sound with todays processors .Thanks

 

[wgliradio]

The 8100 was a huge step above the 8000 when you compare the boxes solo (ie, no other processing before or after).

The 8000 has a great sound for classical and fine jazz programming and had a different style but still effective HF limiter. IIRC, the HF limiter could be modulated by audio in other parts of the spectrum, a problem that was addressed in the 8100 (there is more about it in the 8100 manual you can download online). This would make the 8000 sound dull at times.

There are also other mods to slow the limiter release time for classical music and to swap chips to get different performances out of the box. Some were not recognized by Orban as being good and he even published a white paper on good and bad 8000 mods.

If you want one, you will need some multiband device in front of it. The cheapest would probably be a pair of CRL SEP-400's or an SEP-800. Even so, the 8000 will not be a blow the doors off... unless you plan to run the speed limit, it will be lower on the dial.

The 8000 was designed for clarity, not loudness. The idea was to put a compressor/limiter in a box with a limiter that can handle pre-emphasis and manage the stereo generation. The clipper is not a distortion-canceling type that came with the 8100. There is also no gate function. The design of the main compressor/limiter was to only use enough gain reduction to achieve the desired depth of processing and that the audio would release at a user detirmined rate to a resting point in place of a gate... Bob changed his mind with the 8100 as most know.

As for the sound, it can pump... and badly... especially when set up for Top 40 (as it was called) music. I don't think it was long before DAP-310's were seated in front. I had one once with a compellor in front of it at an educational. We were not loud, but it was clean. I later sat a pair of prisms with the compellor somewhat better results... it maintained an open sound and was pleasant, but others were louder.

A better bet may be to get some used CRL stuff on ebay. I am not knocking the 8000... it was designed not for loudness but to manage the monster that is FM audio. It did that.

 

[RadioMan203]

I ran an 8000a on an Kahn AM Stereo station in the 80's (ran it in front of the composite STL) and had CRL gear at the transmitter. It makes a nice transmission limiter in front of the STL but you could probably do the same thing with a well set Compellor.

As mentioned before me, you can probably find an 8100 at a giveaway price on ebay.

 

[littlejohn]

In the day, the 8000 with a pair of (Glen Clark built) Texar Audio Prisms in front of it. If you wanted LOUD, you put a composite clipper behind it. When compared to the stuff which was available at the time it was built, it slayed everything in sight. It was the first box to put the proc amp(s) and stereo generator together, and design them specifically to play together. As someone above says, even today they sound very good. There are mods to upgrade the opamps in it, and to increase the seperation between the AGC and limiter sections (the latter being somewhat controversial) but they work well and can be had for cheap.
In the evolution of proc amps for audio, we see the CBS Audimax/Volumax, the DAP, and then the Optimod as revolutionary. For, severally, gated gain, multiband processing, and integrated stereo generators. The next revolution was digital audio processing and carriage, and I'm not going to get into the wars over that - the threads here champion the several ways of doing it, the revolution being the ability to iterate filters and mixers arithmetically in a DSP rather than in components which age and degrade. Makes you wonder what's to be next.
I've a pair of Audio Prisms that are early enough to have he serial numbers (two digit) on the chassis in laundry marker. Make the price right, I'll ship them to Glen and see if he won't run through them for you.

 

[mr_elbows]

the 8000's really big advance was elimination of transformers (with attendant overshoot and ringing) between limiter and stereo generator; usually there was one at the output of the limiter and another at the input of the stereo generator

combining it all in one box allowed a huge leap in average modulation, no longer did we see the Volumax kill a transient only to have the two transformers between the limiter stage and the stereo generator bring it back

 

[FFoti1]

A better bet may be to get some used CRL stuff on ebay. I am not knocking the 8000... it was designed not for loudness but to manage the monster that is FM audio. It did that.

Sorry Mike, gotta challenge you on this. The 8000 was a major step forward, when introduced. It offered considerable added loudness, when compared to other processors at the time. It was the first method to overcome the overshoots that were introduced by the non-linear 15kHz low pass filters used to protect the 19kHz pilot. So, it was both a quality and loudness box. I have a feeling that Bob Orban would agree.

Not fair to compare the 8000 to processing systems used today.

-Frank Foti

 

[menotti1]

that 8000a had alot of fans and i had one engineer tell me he liked it better than the 8100a,i thought that was a strong statement.he only ran the compellor in front of it.

 

[wgliradio]

A better bet may be to get some used CRL stuff on ebay. I am not knocking the 8000... it was designed not for loudness but to manage the monster that is FM audio. It did that.

Sorry Mike, gotta challenge you on this. The 8000 was a major step forward, when introduced. It offered considerable added loudness, when compared to other processors at the time. It was the first method to overcome the overshoots that were introduced by the non-linear 15kHz low pass filters used to protect the 19kHz pilot. So, it was both a quality and loudness box. I have a feeling that Bob Orban would agree.

Not fair to compare the 8000 to processing systems used today.

-Frank Foti

Don't apologize... I enjoy a good challenge

What I meant was that it was not built for the type of loudness expected today, which is what the original poster asked for.

<<How competitive is the the sound with todays processors>>

In its time it was a revolution, no doubt about that. Placing everything in one box made the 8000 idiot proof (in most cases) and also allowed better management of each stage of processing.

But also remember, Orban was/is a purist. He wanted the most modulation out of the box with as little change (or any change) to the audio as possible... thus the single band design and no tone controls. You can see that is evident in the fact that most of his classical (if not all) presets are built around a 2 band scheme even in his flagship 8500.

Only the market dictated the 8100 (which could still be *almost* virtually setup as a mostly slow releasing wideband processor, even though at total coupling, there still isn't full tracking of the bass and main bands). Later, even more control was added by the XT/2 add on, Prisms, CRL (FM-4 systems), Tri-Mazes, the Unity 2000 and on and on.

 

[EDwalker]

I am on a strict budget and I am looking at a Optimod 8000A. I would like to hear comments on this processor. What would you put in front of it (if anything to enhance the quality. Is anyone using one at their station. How competitive is the the sound with todays processors .Thanks

The 8000A was a great box in its time; in fact it was revolutionary with its peak control. But you're already blowing your budget asking about things to put in front of it to make it competitive. There's far better alternatives now.

 

[Sgeirk]

Just as recent as the past 2 years, I have had an 8000 with a CRL Audio Signature running in front of it.

While letting the Asig do most of the work and just BARELY hitting the 8000, it's not competitive, but it sure sounds nice.

Processing at one time was much more of an art, hats off to those that advanced it.

 

[phr8trayn]

One of the best setups I heard, circa 1977, was Grady's PR&E MultiMaxes in front of a rechipped & clipper modified 8000 with a homebrew comp clipper on the backend. It smoked and sounded great!

 

[RadioMoo]

One of the best setups I heard, circa 1977, was Grady's PR&E MultiMaxes in front of a rechipped & clipper modified 8000 with a homebrew comp clipper on the backend. It smoked and sounded great!

Anyone remember the Shulke mod?

 

[littlejohn]

No, but I remember Vladimer Whatsisname at Bonneville demanding the gain reduction never pass -5 and not run past -3. And, the use of MCI JH110 players instead of AMpex AG-440s, cos they sounded better. And he was right about the tape machines.

 

[RadioMoo]

No, but I remember Vladimer Whatsisname at Bonneville demanding the gain reduction never pass -5 and not run past -3. And, the use of MCI JH110 players instead of AMpex AG-440s, cos they sounded better. And he was right about the tape machines.

I worked as a jock at a Bonneville station after the Schukle era; they put Prisms in front of the 8000s, turned the release time to "Limit Only" and ran it at -7 at peaks: it sounded nice - just a loud as everyone else but not as aggressive.

BTW, we used AG 440s for our on air decks and MCIs in prod. And I respectfully disagree with your ears: the MCIs sounded like Colorforms to me!

Trivia: Schulke dubbed the music reels backwards - something to do with the "enveloping" effect translating better when the tapes were played in the right direction. Also, mics had to be 3db down, so ours were smashed with an Audimax.

 

[littlejohn]

Assuming you fed the mic mono and centered, it should be 3dB down to beat center channel buildup. Or offset to one side. As to the tape machines, put some good tape on each side by side with new heads on them, set them up to book spec and compare. The MCI will knock the ampex's [EDIT], especially on higher frequency distortion. Assuming the pins the cards fit on are new and shiny, it has a better wow and flutter performance. The AMpex was a constant torque machine, the MCI was constant tension.




[vulgar]

 

[gunterm]

I did a budget setup once where we fed the audio through an Optimod 1100 in a PC, then into an 8000A and it sounded stellar!

 

[wgliradio]

I did a budget setup once where we fed the audio through an Optimod 1100 in a PC, then into an 8000A and it sounded stellar!

I wouldn't doubt that... especially since the 1100 has basically the same processing as you can find in the 8500 now. The signal is already packed it tight. Just add a stereo generator with good pre-emphasis management (which the 8000 has) and presto.

 

[audiophile.]

It's really not as uncompetitive as you might think. I fabbed a split HF limiter (a transistor and a few parts mirroring the onboard components) and slightly increased the clipping internally, ran a fast release (9 to 10 o'clock) with 3-7 dB of compression. Put in and EQ in front give a slight bump to the low end. Set your modulation with a Mod Minder.

The problem with this box is the limited gain reduction range. You have to be very careful with the input levels. I never drive it harder than 9 dB. I suppose an optional slow AGC (Behringer, Compellor or whatever) would keep it in the sweet spot. Let the 8000 do all the fast compression if using in conjunction with a external AGC (the last thing you want to is get into a medium-speed compressor overshoot fight).

With a few minor mods and careful attention to detail I think you would be shocked how good it sounds. Honestly it sounds open, punchy and nearly as loud as a 3t (don't humor me

 

[Chuck]

Having started on the air with a very slim budget, we used an 8000A for a couple of years. It has since been replaced with a DSP-X which I like a lot, but the old Optimod did very well. With a little pre-processing, it was very good sounding. I liked it, and I was happy with the way our station sounded.

It's still in our transmitter rack for use as a standby, although it could probably benefit from recapping.

 

[desert_er]

If you're on a *really* strict budget, this is a pretty good setup:

Behringer MDX1600 Expander/Gate/Compressor/Peak Limiter (about $120 new)
http://www.behringer.com/MDX1600/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Broadcast Warehouse DIGILOG stereo encoder ($220.00 new, plus enclosure and PS)
http://www.broadcastwarehouse.com/p/BW/Stereo-Encoders/Digilog-Stereo-Encoder?pid=8

I've used this as my "spare processor" for awhile... The Idea was based around the processing we were using a few years ago: Aphex Compellor > Aphex Dominator > Orban 8100 w/ "Aphex card 5". The "Aphex card 5" basically turns the Orban 8100 into a stereo generator. My ears aren't perfect, but I thought this cheap setup sounded better than the Aphex/Orban combo. For $350, you cant beat it... You also won't have to replace any caps!