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Other than Optimod and Omnia...
- Thread starter HadYourPhil
- Start date
G
Groove1670
Guest
A rebuilt Optimod 8100 still is a very good processor
I second the analog processor. Give me a 8100 with a XT2.
I still wish I had the magic "but-the-most -minimum parts-count" analog one step solution.
That's not gonna happen, so I am still deleriously happy with BBP/automation playout follwed by a 2 step
process in an ART Pro VLA. I think there are podcast links in my sig lines. These are rf airchecks of an AM1620.
I only wish you could hear how it sounds on a 1936 Philco 116X set up to do 20-20000 hz in my living room.
The huge-ness is sometimes truly overwhelming.
Years of results worth of work makes me very happy with the choices and steps I've made.
(except for a brief fling with a box w/W2000 which technically "does" run, but cannot do BBP or
even service its own screen addressing/feedback often enough to operate iwthout maddening delay/offset/waitng.
That's not gonna happen, so I am still deleriously happy with BBP/automation playout follwed by a 2 step
process in an ART Pro VLA. I think there are podcast links in my sig lines. These are rf airchecks of an AM1620.
I only wish you could hear how it sounds on a 1936 Philco 116X set up to do 20-20000 hz in my living room.
The huge-ness is sometimes truly overwhelming.
Years of results worth of work makes me very happy with the choices and steps I've made.
(except for a brief fling with a box w/W2000 which technically "does" run, but cannot do BBP or
even service its own screen addressing/feedback often enough to operate iwthout maddening delay/offset/waitng.
I'll say by saying the David and VP8 are great budget boxes. The VP8 especially for AM. Nothing sold today can touch it. Had one on a NJ AM and it was loud and open.
I liked the AP2000. We had some on at that same cluster in NJ. Omnia fans probably hated it but it was as loud and I thought more open than an 8500. I have also not heard the new AirAura code.
The David is a huge improvement over the Omega and at more than half the price. I've always liked the David series, the analog boxes were good for tge money. I don't think the PIPP limiter is offensive at all, especially the tradeoff it gives you on peak control. The BW DSP Xtra is a good box because of the Ariane. Not a big fan of the other BW offerings.
I don't think, with all the offerings out there that you have to blindly buy Omnia and Orban anymore. I never understood why people who want to beat their competition buy the same thing their competition has. Its illogical.
I liked the AP2000. We had some on at that same cluster in NJ. Omnia fans probably hated it but it was as loud and I thought more open than an 8500. I have also not heard the new AirAura code.
The David is a huge improvement over the Omega and at more than half the price. I've always liked the David series, the analog boxes were good for tge money. I don't think the PIPP limiter is offensive at all, especially the tradeoff it gives you on peak control. The BW DSP Xtra is a good box because of the Ariane. Not a big fan of the other BW offerings.
I don't think, with all the offerings out there that you have to blindly buy Omnia and Orban anymore. I never understood why people who want to beat their competition buy the same thing their competition has. Its illogical.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with using Windows 7 (or XP, if forced) for long term projects. I would not hesitate to employ Stereo Tool on our next processor project.
I have numerous mission critical boxes that only get a reboot when I am doing routine maintenance.
I have numerous mission critical boxes that only get a reboot when I am doing routine maintenance.
A rebuilt 8100 can sound nice, but you're pretty limited in your sonic palette with the 8100. If you like that, it's fine, but it "is what it is". I might use one for an oldies/classic hits format, but wouldn't send one out to the trenches with any type of modern music format. The overly bright material can cause the HF limiters to really duck the high end. As you back off the HF limit control, it gets pretty grungy fast.
Never liked the XT-2. Thought it made everything sound the same. I know that was part of the point of it, but there wasn't enough "rolling with the music" and no way to change the time constants on the 6 (5 1/2 really) band limiter without a soldering iron.
I'll take a modern Omnia.11, Omnia.9, 8600, AirAura or David IV over an 8100 any day. Also an Omnia.One, 5500 too. Much more flexibility in what sound I can get out them. I'd rather build two PC's running stripped down XP and BBP or ST than pay all that for a 30 year old 8100.
8100's make a great backup processor. Great headphone processor. It was a work of art for its day, but unless it's an LPFM, its time has passed compared to all of the other offerings.
If you're having that much issue with XP crashing, you haven't stripped it down enough. Simple hardware, SSD, 4GB of RAM and behind a hardware firewall, it shouldn't give you much trouble. If your TX site isn't of the climate controlled variety, I would opt for the PC to stay at the studio and send digital uncompressed up to the TX.
Never liked the XT-2. Thought it made everything sound the same. I know that was part of the point of it, but there wasn't enough "rolling with the music" and no way to change the time constants on the 6 (5 1/2 really) band limiter without a soldering iron.
I'll take a modern Omnia.11, Omnia.9, 8600, AirAura or David IV over an 8100 any day. Also an Omnia.One, 5500 too. Much more flexibility in what sound I can get out them. I'd rather build two PC's running stripped down XP and BBP or ST than pay all that for a 30 year old 8100.
8100's make a great backup processor. Great headphone processor. It was a work of art for its day, but unless it's an LPFM, its time has passed compared to all of the other offerings.
If you're having that much issue with XP crashing, you haven't stripped it down enough. Simple hardware, SSD, 4GB of RAM and behind a hardware firewall, it shouldn't give you much trouble. If your TX site isn't of the climate controlled variety, I would opt for the PC to stay at the studio and send digital uncompressed up to the TX.
Time to get over using windows. Seriously. And XP is just fine.
The vast majority of computer problems are related to hardware fails or users themselves....or browsers. Or opening and closing multiple programs.
Memory leak? If you are only running one program and nothing else.....
Stereo Tool is the cleanest thing I have ever heard on FM. Try it...use the latest presets...race it against a $13,000 box. Double dog dare ya!!!
If being off air is the ultimate concern...a remote-controlled composite exciter input relay is doable.
Stereo Tool kills it. Extremely musical and very kind on dry voice. Still recommend using outboard RDS.
The vast majority of computer problems are related to hardware fails or users themselves....or browsers. Or opening and closing multiple programs.
Memory leak? If you are only running one program and nothing else.....
Stereo Tool is the cleanest thing I have ever heard on FM. Try it...use the latest presets...race it against a $13,000 box. Double dog dare ya!!!
If being off air is the ultimate concern...a remote-controlled composite exciter input relay is doable.
Stereo Tool kills it. Extremely musical and very kind on dry voice. Still recommend using outboard RDS.
WNTIRadio said:If you're having that much issue with XP crashing, you haven't stripped it down enough. Simple hardware, SSD, 4GB of RAM and behind a hardware firewall, it shouldn't give you much trouble. If your TX site isn't of the climate controlled variety, I would opt for the PC to stay at the studio and send digital uncompressed up to the TX.
Sgeirk said:Time to get over using windows. Seriously. And XP is just fine.
The vast majority of computer problems are related to hardware fails or users themselves....or browsers. Or opening and closing multiple programs.
Memory leak? If you are only running one program and nothing else.....
Sorry, friends, but I do I.T. every day and I personally think you have to be a fool to run a version of Windows for mission critical audio processing. If that's your choice more power to you, but I'll stick with a solution that has a proven track record for reliability. Plenty of digital boxes out there to rock your world and millions of presets to choose from.
OTOH I have a stream encoder using a stripped down version of Windows 98 that have been up for at least a couple of years. That's my client's choice, not mine. I bulletproofed things as much as I could back in the day and I guess that says something for it, but for my own facilities I won't do it.
Of course, everyone has the right to their own opinion. However, it's a shame to dismiss what could be a positive move for a station, just because of past-formed experiences.
A couple years back, I wouldn't consider audio over IP. Now, I have only one copper path out of over 30 lines. The IP stuff works, has been reliable and is more under my control than the digital cards the phone company has been running lately around here. Added to that is a substantial saving to the stations over traditional telco charges.
It's a whole different world out there. If I can improve one of my clients' presentation by thinking a bit out of the box, then why not?
How long does a computer-based processor have to run reliably to be considered a valid alternative? 3 years on a mountain top without a glitch or a reboot seems reasonably convincing to me.
A couple years back, I wouldn't consider audio over IP. Now, I have only one copper path out of over 30 lines. The IP stuff works, has been reliable and is more under my control than the digital cards the phone company has been running lately around here. Added to that is a substantial saving to the stations over traditional telco charges.
It's a whole different world out there. If I can improve one of my clients' presentation by thinking a bit out of the box, then why not?
How long does a computer-based processor have to run reliably to be considered a valid alternative? 3 years on a mountain top without a glitch or a reboot seems reasonably convincing to me.
G
Groove1670
Guest
If you're having that much issue with XP crashing, you haven't stripped it down enough. Simple hardware, SSD, 4GB of RAM and behind a hardware firewall, it shouldn't give you much trouble.
Yes but the 8100 doesn't crash. ;D
After reading some posts here I really need to reply.
Audio processing is very different from 'normal' computer usage. In essence, it's about the 'simplest' thing you can do on a PC: Once it runs, it will not allocate memory (that would be a very bad idea in a real-time application), it does not access the disk, it does not communicate with other software, servers, databases etc. - it just keeps repeating the same action over and over again: It receives an always equal amount of samples, performs the same processing on it every time, and outputs the result. The only thing that's different are the sample values.
Since it does the same thing constantly, if there would be a memory leak (as I said, it's a very bad idea to allocate memory in a real-time program), it would show up very quickly. Since no memory is allocated or released and only a limited amount of memory is used, there's no swapping to or from disk either.
The same thing is true for bugs: If there's something in the code that causes crashes, there's a very high probability that the crash will occur immediately when the first few samples get processed. (There are some possible exceptions to this, but not many).
Based on previous jobs that I had I can tell you that Windows based PC's are now even used in hospitals during surgery, for example in interventional X-ray where a surgeon needs a live X-ray view of what he/she is doing in a body during heart surgery. In the company where I worked the move from dedicated image processing hardware to PC's started around 2005 (pilot projects started much earlier). At the time processing power on an 8-core system was just enough to give the same results as the hardware (yet at a much lower price), but by now the greatly improved processing power has allowed the image quality to improve dramatically, and the same surgery can be done using a far lower X-ray dosage. If a Windows pc was good enough for use during heart surgery 8 years ago (and a system failure would leave the surgeon completely blinded), it should be good enough for broadcasting as well...
Audio processing is very different from 'normal' computer usage. In essence, it's about the 'simplest' thing you can do on a PC: Once it runs, it will not allocate memory (that would be a very bad idea in a real-time application), it does not access the disk, it does not communicate with other software, servers, databases etc. - it just keeps repeating the same action over and over again: It receives an always equal amount of samples, performs the same processing on it every time, and outputs the result. The only thing that's different are the sample values.
Since it does the same thing constantly, if there would be a memory leak (as I said, it's a very bad idea to allocate memory in a real-time program), it would show up very quickly. Since no memory is allocated or released and only a limited amount of memory is used, there's no swapping to or from disk either.
The same thing is true for bugs: If there's something in the code that causes crashes, there's a very high probability that the crash will occur immediately when the first few samples get processed. (There are some possible exceptions to this, but not many).
Based on previous jobs that I had I can tell you that Windows based PC's are now even used in hospitals during surgery, for example in interventional X-ray where a surgeon needs a live X-ray view of what he/she is doing in a body during heart surgery. In the company where I worked the move from dedicated image processing hardware to PC's started around 2005 (pilot projects started much earlier). At the time processing power on an 8-core system was just enough to give the same results as the hardware (yet at a much lower price), but by now the greatly improved processing power has allowed the image quality to improve dramatically, and the same surgery can be done using a far lower X-ray dosage. If a Windows pc was good enough for use during heart surgery 8 years ago (and a system failure would leave the surgeon completely blinded), it should be good enough for broadcasting as well...
@techie2: I don't know where to get these Marian cards quickly in the US. (I have notified them of some of the posts on these boards, they seemed to be unaware of any issues). I have heard that one Realtek onboard chip is also DC coupled, and that it performs very close to the Marian - not sure which one it is though... At the NAB I talked to some companies that were working on new cards as well, but they were not yet ready at the time (they might be now, I will ask them).
A Linux version is coming soon (currently working on Jack support, which is the last thing that I need to add); I hope to get it working the coming week.
For stability, I would use the Windows version for the near future - the Windows version is running at hundreds of FM and thousands of webradio stations and has been downloaded more than 1.5 million times, so the chance that you'll run into new issues is very small.
A Linux version is coming soon (currently working on Jack support, which is the last thing that I need to add); I hope to get it working the coming week.
For stability, I would use the Windows version for the near future - the Windows version is running at hundreds of FM and thousands of webradio stations and has been downloaded more than 1.5 million times, so the chance that you'll run into new issues is very small.
musiconradio.com said:Yes but the 8100 doesn't crash. ;D
High five! Somebody who gets it!
But when that 8100 ps dies ,it will crash!!
musiconradio.com said:If you're having that much issue with XP crashing, you haven't stripped it down enough. Simple hardware, SSD, 4GB of RAM and behind a hardware firewall, it shouldn't give you much trouble.
Yes but the 8100 doesn't crash. ;D
True, but rarely does an industrial built computer properly configured as an "appliance." Again, aren't the Omnia 9 and the Linear Acoustic boxes both XP computers basically?
hvz said:@techie2: I don't know where to get these Marian cards quickly in the US. (I have notified them of some of the posts on these boards, they seemed to be unaware of any issues). I have heard that one Realtek onboard chip is also DC coupled, and that it performs very close to the Marian - not sure which one it is though... At the NAB I talked to some companies that were working on new cards as well, but they were not yet ready at the time (they might be now, I will ask them).
A Linux version is coming soon (currently working on Jack support, which is the last thing that I need to add); I hope to get it working the coming week.
For stability, I would use the Windows version for the near future - the Windows version is running at hundreds of FM and thousands of webradio stations and has been downloaded more than 1.5 million times, so the chance that you'll run into new issues is very small.
Hans,
Would you try to get the model of a motherboard with that Realtek chip on it? That would be an ideal test/backup machine.
musiconradio.com said:If you're having that much issue with XP crashing, you haven't stripped it down enough. Simple hardware, SSD, 4GB of RAM and behind a hardware firewall, it shouldn't give you much trouble.
Yes but the 8100 doesn't crash. ;D
Haha! ;D
Oh, but it can when lightning strikes! I have audio of an 8100 IC burnout following a strike. It goes from music to dead silence with lots of static buzzing / swooshing.
R
Been using breakaway or ST for the past 4 years...only one outage...and it was preventable. My fault.
Seen an 8400 dead on arrival...a 2020 go haywire and a screen on an o.6 perish, and an 8100 start squealing, t-1's get cut, and stl's up and die suddenly....and a whole rack shut down when a ups died suddenly.
Broadcast Tools makes a bnc switcher. The quality afforded by Stereo Tool is worth any minimal risk.
If a station goes silent for 5 minutes...nobody dies.
Seen an 8400 dead on arrival...a 2020 go haywire and a screen on an o.6 perish, and an 8100 start squealing, t-1's get cut, and stl's up and die suddenly....and a whole rack shut down when a ups died suddenly.
Broadcast Tools makes a bnc switcher. The quality afforded by Stereo Tool is worth any minimal risk.
If a station goes silent for 5 minutes...nobody dies.
Sgeirk said:If a station goes silent for 5 minutes...nobody dies.
True...but PD's are up my @ss over any dead air. Hard to get thru their heads that, yes it will happen due to circumstances beyond our control.
Nobody died...let's move on
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