PANDORA - WHY ARE WE EVEN DISCUSSING IT?

[Prais]

Well, if the local stations ARE so important, WHY don't they prove it....ACT LIKE they are important??!!!

My weather radio and my internet radio (on which I usually listen to wgn, Chicago -150 miles away so I don't experience am static in a storm) - are what I use, because the local "Grand Rapids, MI" stations are all talk and no do. Ive been a wgn fan for about 50 years. They have NEVER let me down.

WOOD AM (the local "news" station) is quite useless (except for teling you how great they are) and its new "competitor" WJRW, (is new to news and is automated alot) is still figuring out how to do it.

On my way home in the 5pm hour WOOD runs Hannity (though I'mm conservative I can't stand his yelling), and generally, I must wait 25 minutes for a weather or traffic report. WOOD is mostly useless. So,, to hell with them.

I listen to my cd's - at least they lower my blood pressure, instead of my yelling at the radio!

To me, the local stations are mostly crap and have lost credibilty.

Most places tell you about their music, and some even LIE about their news.

Actually, I LOVE satellite automation - as the talent there is usually FAR superior to the local mispronouncers (too many Specs Howard alums). The local station (who CAN hire fewer people due to the automation) should hire a newsman or two, to do the job of warning/informing the locals.

There are precious FEW (none local) who "do the job."

 

[SirRoxalot]

The biggest problem with local stations "doing the job" is that there ISN'T ANYONE THERE to "do the job". Satellite and automation are running unattended. Weather was recorded hours ago and dumped into the system.

You wait 25 minutes for a weather forecast or traffic report because that's when the network avail is. They can run Hannity because Hannity works on barter - you give up local commercial avails in return for getting that "FAR superior" talent. Why is the talent "FAR superior"? Because management is paying the local guys $18.5 a YEAR.

Imagine a world where radio stations DIDN'T give away their commercial time, used some of that revenue to pay local sales people and talent, and served a LOCAL audience.

Oh, but local news isn't important, "localism" is over-rated, and "FAR superior" talent is worth giving up huge chunks of local revenue...[/sarcasm]

 

[Prais]

I MEAN EXACTLY "far superior."

The "talent" here (and I use the term with sarcasm) is only one or 2 guys in the WHOLE market. WOOD radios news is only C+. I mostly listen to WGN, 150 miles away.

Gary Allen (WOOD AM morning man) is tops. There are 2 doofuses after him, then satellite. WOOD am's competition is an automated wreck, but in fairness they are new to the format.

I do understand why there is that 25 minute gap -but afternoon drive on "the local news station" SHOULD be local.

For example, Jeff Rollins and the rest of the satellite jocks on "Adult Standards" would beat the snot out of the mispronouncers from Specs Howard. Adult Standards is barter, cheaper than your 18,5.

 

[SirRoxalot]

If you go cheap, you get generic pap, or low-rent talent. You also end up cutting rate IF there's any credible competition in the market.]

You've already admitted that you listen to WGN, which is 150 miles away. How does that help your local economy, or your local advertisers? It doesn't. So, ratings for local stations go down, local advertisers buy spots cheap, and there ain't a whole lot of money to hire talent in sales, programming, or management.

Meanwhile, you wait for a "Specs Howard" "mispronouncer" to read a weather forecast, or a traffic update. The sattelite jocks on "Adult Standards" have no idea - and don't care - about your traffic, your weather, or anything else local.

There are a couple of guys in your market that are "tops". Why? Because there are likely a couple of guys in your market making a decent living. Talented kids look at the "job opportunities" in radio, laugh, and move on. Guys who have talent and experience were among the first to go as the cutbacks gained momentum since consolidation because they were "too expensive". So, you either get the guys who are willing - for whatever reason - to work for $18.5, or you get inexperienced rookies who'll move on as soon as they have an opportunity to make $19.5.

BTW, this isn't only the case on the air. Sales and management - in a lot of industries - suffer from the same short-term thinking. The corporate mantra seems to be "profit now at all costs". Shareholders want to make a killing, then move on. Corporate boards who don't really know the industry take a pocket full of perks, and pad the nests of the guys who'll keep the shareholders happy, despite what happens to the long-term health of both companies and industries.

Yeah, adult standards is "cheaper" - in the short run - but who'll need radio to hear that when they've got Internet access in their cars, or 40 gig of music and podcasts updated automatically in their "in-car entertainment center". Radio will have already developed a taste for a product that the syndicator can distribute for free, without those annoying "local" cut-ins.

 

[Prais]

Sir said,
"You've already admitted that you listen to WGN, which is 150 miles away. How does that help your local economy, or your local advertisers? It doesn't. So, ratings for local stations go down, local advertisers buy spots cheap, and there ain't a whole lot of money to hire talent in sales, programming, or management. "

Well sir, WOOD has had 60+ years to do it right, once being the only stqation here. They have blown it. I don't really care.

Sir said, "Yeah, adult standards is "cheaper" - in the short run."

Nope, if adult standards was still here, I'd listen. I'm 60 years old and I LOVED that format.

Fact is, that station is now Birach owned - Spanish. I'm glad that there is a local Spanish signal here.

The Standards station is on in Lansing, on an ok stick, about 60 miles from here, but Lansing is a different market, and not Grand Rapids, so I seldom tune in. That station is very UNlocal, anyway.

To do GOOD satellte automation, you MUST do community calendar, lots of local liners, traffic, and other local stuff, and keep it fresh.

It's NOT difficult, but it may be a bit tedious, and certaiinly NECESSARY. I can do it on my cctv channel in a hundred bed nursing where I'm the chaplain, and run the channel w/OTS playing the 1400 song playlist.

 

[bossbill]

I can't speak for the stations that walk away and stay away. We have a small staff. I have 4 on-air personalities, 1 newsman, plus myself. We have a regular on-call schedule, with a defined plan to cover any emergencies, and it changes monthly. Even on the weekend, we are no more than 5 minutes away from airing a late-breaking event.

In addition, we can access the stations from any location via laptop.

We go wall-to-wall when necessary, otherwise we base frequency of updates on the situation. Our remaining staff (office and sales) also is on call for backup.

Everybody records the weather; not everybody updates it when it changes. We do.

If we can run five stations with a staff of 5 and actually be there when emergencies arise, why can't the big boys do it?

 

[Chuck]

I can't speak for the stations that walk away and stay away. We have a small staff. I have 4 on-air personalities, 1 newsman, plus myself. We have a regular on-call schedule, with a defined plan to cover any emergencies, and it changes monthly. Even on the weekend, we are no more than 5 minutes away from airing a late-breaking event.

In addition, we can access the stations from any location via laptop.

We go wall-to-wall when necessary, otherwise we base frequency of updates on the situation. Our remaining staff (office and sales) also is on call for backup.

Everybody records the weather; not everybody updates it when it changes. We do.

If we can run five stations with a staff of 5 and actually be there when emergencies arise, why can't the big boys do it?

It's true. I'm not bragging, but I think I run a decent local station with just two of us on staff and a few people who "help out" when needed. People tell me that they love the station, and frequently mention the "local flavor." Currently, we are "sold out" and folks who advertise report good results. It is very affordable, so the ROI seems to work for our sponsors. By necessity, the station is automated, but that is OK. It isn't that hard to make an automated station sound local.

If I can figure this out, why can't the "big guys?" Too much debt, maybe?

 

[nd2023]

A well programmed Internet station beats Pandora any day, especially for dance. I'd rather have a human pick out the music.

 

[Prais]

The "rules" that RCS Selector uses (set by the programmer at the station) picks music for lots of stations.

People that "know what they are doing" make RCS Selector a fabulous tool. You input the music details/programming rules - and let 'er rip.

Then, go back over it and smooth out a couple of rough spots over a 24 hour period. I 've used it for over 20 years. I LOVE it.

 

[TheBigA]

They want a connection, a shared experience, and context for the music. They appreciate a "flow" decided by humans with taste, not just computers with a human-produced program.

They're getting that directly from their favorite artists. They don't need an intermediary to tell them what's cool. They don't need "humans with taste." They have friends they trust who are smarter, closer in age, and closer to the stars than local DJs.

Why does talk radio flourish? Because it's the last bastion of talented humans relating to listeners on the radio.

I cringe when you call them "talented." They just happen to have built fan bases of people who agree. Same thing with music radio. What makes all these personalized services flourish is they're able to build fan bases among like-minded people. It's often preaching to the converted, not introducing open-minded people to new music or new ideas. There's not much of that going on anywhere. Most people have their favorites, and that's all they care about.

 

[TheBigA]

The biggest problem with local stations "doing the job" is that there ISN'T ANYONE THERE to "do the job". Satellite and automation are running unattended. Weather was recorded hours ago and dumped into the system.

There are more live people at a typical broadcast station than at a typical internet station. That's a simple fact. Very few stations in Top 150 markets without staffing. The problem isn't the number of people, but what those people do. They often spend lots of time sitting at desks instead of interacting with listeners. They're not reaching out to the audience. They're too focused on top-down communication, TELLING, rather than interacting. Too many people worried about being "on the clock," working the 8-hour day, and then leaving the audience behind. That's bad radio. Forget about the weather. That doesn't have to "dumped into the system." That can be automated, and updated constantly, the way it's done on cable.

If you're in radio, it's a 24-hour commitment. If that's not what youy want, go into another line of work. And it's not a function of being paid more. Because you're competing against home-brew operations who will do it 24/7 for free and kick you in the ass. If you can't deliver more than they're doing for free, you don't deserve a pay check at all.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Nobody expects a typical Internet station to localize, or deliver timely information. We have guys here talking about running 5 stations with 5 live bodies. And you think that they're sitting at a desk, and doing 8 and out?

Interacting with listeners isn't allowed in most dayparts in most formats. Most stations don't allow phoners after morning drive. In fact, giving out the "studio line" number - let alone soliciting requests - is "not part of the format". If anything, an automated "listener line" number is promoted, and bits from that are worked into breakers or promos - with NO interaction between the listener and the jock.

The TELLING rather than interacting is built into the format. There are more pre-produced breakers than opportunities for a live jock - if there is a live jock - to talk. Talk breaks are NOT designed for interaction, they're designed for a jock to shill the latest station activity, imaging, or the morning show.

You need to get out of your corner office and spend a couple of shifts in the studio. Notice I said "shift", not "show". Most jocks are no longer allowed - let alone encouraged - to take ownership of their show lest they develop an audience loyal to them instead of the radio station.

 

[TheBigA]

Nobody expects a typical Internet station to localize, or deliver timely information. We have guys here talking about running 5 stations with 5 live bodies.

So what. Internet and LPFM stations are running 24/7 with ONE body, for no pay.

That's what you're competing with.

You need to get out of your corner office and spend a couple of shifts in the studio.

I left the corner office 8 years ago. I do real radio now. And I'm in the trenches with real people who do it for free. It makes what you're talking about seem very insignificant.

Most jocks are no longer allowed - let alone encouraged - to take ownership of their show lest they develop an audience loyal to them instead of the radio station.

How can someone "take ownership" of anything they don't own? If you're an hourly employee, you don't own anything.

You HAVE to decide what's more important: a dependable paycheck with benefits, or ownership. You can't have both.

 

[joshzz]

I would suggest that there be another name given to internet music boxes. They cannot be defined as radio stations when they are operating as record players. Indeed that might be the better name for them - "Internet Record Players"

There are literally thousands & thousands of them -primitive pandora connections all doing pretty much the same thing - that's not radio and neither is pandora... nothing more than getting a stack of 45 RPM records together and putting them on the spindle and letting them play.. that's pandora and the rest........ It's NOT RADIO.

 

[quadraphonic]

If it's taking the place of radio in people's minds, then it's "radio."
No matter how you want to nuance it to prove it's "not."

 

[radioboy]

No need to make up a new name. It's officially called "webcasting."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/webcast

Hmmm..come to think of it, I *might* be an Internet Record Player. After all, every week I do live shows, utililizing stacks of 45s, CDs, even a cassette or two.

When I began streaming in 2001, no one else in town even knew what it was. My station made the front page of the local newspaper, and they sent a photographer out to take a pic. I believe most folks figured it was a fad and would be gone in a few months.

When my last "real radio" gig ended in 2004 I got more serious about the product, and developed the classic country format I have now.

Whether the Internet webcast is radio or not to me is irrelevant. The 164,116 listeners of the stream probably don't really care that much either.

We are all content providers..nothing more, nothing less.

Plenty of radio stations are also record players, except they throw liners in after every song. And nobody knows the call letters these days..it's "my" or "magic" or "wolf" or whatever.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Internet and LPFM stations running with one body don't - and aren't expected - to deliver timely information. Nobody tunes them in to find out if there's a weather warning, or other emergency. Nobody expects local news or sports.

And let me know when your Internet or LPFM station makes a dent in the ratings, or pays a living wage to the people that work there.

 

[adma]

Or, for that matter, it's "Pandora". A generic name, like "Xerox" or "Walkman".

 

[joshzz]

Expect to see many more PANDORA INTERNET RECORD PLAYERS coming to a computer near you.

Maybe I'll get into it - I'll call it PLETHORA josh

 

[Chuck]

Internet and LPFM stations running with one body don't - and aren't expected - to deliver timely information. Nobody tunes them in to find out if there's a weather warning, or other emergency. Nobody expects local news or sports.

And let me know when your Internet or LPFM station makes a dent in the ratings, or pays a living wage to the people that work there.

I ran a LPFM station for over eight years that did make a blip in the ratings. That was pretty amazing to me, considering we were located in a county that was not rated. It was receivable in only one of three counties that were included in the ratings. We did do local sports. I personally sat at the control board through two hurricanes (pretty scary stuff). We did weather and people listened. Arbitron confirmed that, so it can be done.

The station was successful enough to be able to purchase a small Class A FM. The format moved to the new frequency and is doing pretty well. I won't be paying to get the Arbitron info though. As long as we are able to sell our inventory, there isn't much point.