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Part 15, Internet Streamers-- NOW IS YOUR DAY!
- Thread starter joshzz
- Start date
Hi Josh,
Sounds interesting and I'd love to know more about what may be available as far as AM and FM stations for sale, the attraction of a LPFM where I'd be the only media for a small community beats the land and equipment costs of a 6kw. The way I rationalize it is how long must I work for the bank before I can work for myself?
With that said, it doesn't mean the 'right' full power station would be dismissed...even if it's a non-comm.
There are lots of crazy CPs out there. An example was a 50kw in a town of 1,200 with 2,000 in the 2,000 square mile county. Retail Sales was a mere $9,000,000. Nearest town of the same size or larger is 60+ miles away. Figuring construction, I think flipping burgers at McDonald's would throw off more income.
Even so, there are some diamonds among the duds.
Bill
Sounds interesting and I'd love to know more about what may be available as far as AM and FM stations for sale, the attraction of a LPFM where I'd be the only media for a small community beats the land and equipment costs of a 6kw. The way I rationalize it is how long must I work for the bank before I can work for myself?
With that said, it doesn't mean the 'right' full power station would be dismissed...even if it's a non-comm.
There are lots of crazy CPs out there. An example was a 50kw in a town of 1,200 with 2,000 in the 2,000 square mile county. Retail Sales was a mere $9,000,000. Nearest town of the same size or larger is 60+ miles away. Figuring construction, I think flipping burgers at McDonald's would throw off more income.
Even so, there are some diamonds among the duds.
Bill
It is "never a dull moment," but the station is doing OK. Of course, I'd like it to do better. When I got it, it was a real "fixer-upper." Most of the equipment, except for the tower and the antenna were 20+ years old. I already had a perfectly good studio, so that helped. So far, I've replaced the STL system, remote control, transmitter, exciter, audio processor and stereo generator. I've also re-lamped the tower, had it painted (no small job) and purchased an emergency stand-by generator for the transmitter. I’ve also purchased a 20 foot travel trailer that we are going to convert into “Mobile Unit 1” to take to various street fairs and gatherings. That one is a work in progress which probably won’t be ready for a couple of months, so it probably won’t get much use until the spring. That is bad timing on my part, but the fall is a good time to buy something like that. A lot of people don't want to store their toys over the winter and would rather have the cash.
I've managed to do all of that out of cash flow, while still making our meager payroll and other expenses, so I'm pretty happy about that. I certainly don't expect to get rich out of it, but if I can ever stop spending, there might be a little left over.
I see quite a few stations for sale around the country, often at what seem to be fairly reasonable prices. Quite a few can be had for the price of a fairly ordinary house. I think some of these could be good opportunities for the right people. One caution is the old realtor’s adage, "Location, location, location."
I've managed to do all of that out of cash flow, while still making our meager payroll and other expenses, so I'm pretty happy about that. I certainly don't expect to get rich out of it, but if I can ever stop spending, there might be a little left over.
I see quite a few stations for sale around the country, often at what seem to be fairly reasonable prices. Quite a few can be had for the price of a fairly ordinary house. I think some of these could be good opportunities for the right people. One caution is the old realtor’s adage, "Location, location, location."
I once owned a station in Indianapolis. There, I could make easy money and live
an upper middle class lifestyle. However, I have also owned stations in smaller
communities and this is a different picture. I had to work like a dog and was chained
to my station at all hours.
I am one of the survivors. One of the few who didn't go broke. So, if you really want
to own your own radio station, be prepared to work many hours and don't borrow money
or live beyond your means.
If you don't have your own money to do this, you may be happier in the long run if
you buy a Rangemaster or do an internet stream.
Also, you must know how to manage troublemakers, backstabbers, and ego clashes.
This is the entertainment business and you must know how to handle creative and
egotistic people.
Good luck! Radio is fun!
an upper middle class lifestyle. However, I have also owned stations in smaller
communities and this is a different picture. I had to work like a dog and was chained
to my station at all hours.
I am one of the survivors. One of the few who didn't go broke. So, if you really want
to own your own radio station, be prepared to work many hours and don't borrow money
or live beyond your means.
If you don't have your own money to do this, you may be happier in the long run if
you buy a Rangemaster or do an internet stream.
Also, you must know how to manage troublemakers, backstabbers, and ego clashes.
This is the entertainment business and you must know how to handle creative and
egotistic people.
Good luck! Radio is fun!
Good comments Flying Dutchman.
I know small market radio is a 24/7 job. Bluntly put, you are a slave to the community and you can never find the time to do it all.
Dealing with personalities is something I've done all along, but I suspect there will be few on air at my future station. Thanks to the computer and some creative ideas, you can almost sound live (and I'm not talking about John Q. Jock voicetracking from a faraway town).
I agree...no debt on day 1 is the best way to go with at least a year or two's salary in the bank so one can get the station going correctly without the stress of wondering where your next meal comes from.
Bill
I know small market radio is a 24/7 job. Bluntly put, you are a slave to the community and you can never find the time to do it all.
Dealing with personalities is something I've done all along, but I suspect there will be few on air at my future station. Thanks to the computer and some creative ideas, you can almost sound live (and I'm not talking about John Q. Jock voicetracking from a faraway town).
I agree...no debt on day 1 is the best way to go with at least a year or two's salary in the bank so one can get the station going correctly without the stress of wondering where your next meal comes from.
Bill
Flying-Dutchman said:If you don't have your own money to do this, you may be happier in the long run if
you buy a Rangemaster or do an internet stream.
That is good advice. You'd better like tuna sandwiches for dinner.
I think you guys have been looking in my pantry.
Flying-Dutchman, I believe I may have read a story about your station in Indy a number of years ago, while you were working at it full-time. If you are the person I think you are, you overcame a lot of obstacles to become established and I admire your patience and determination.
Flying-Dutchman, I believe I may have read a story about your station in Indy a number of years ago, while you were working at it full-time. If you are the person I think you are, you overcame a lot of obstacles to become established and I admire your patience and determination.
It's not that bad, guys. I'm building an NCE in a very small town and already have community-minded, unpaid volunteers to help in the daily operations.
Also, I'm saving some construction money by utilizing amateur radio parts wherever appropriate. For example, the coax between the transmitter and antenna. I didn't buy LMR-600 for $630. I bought the equivalent from our local "Ham" radio store for $122. And, no, you don't have to be a licensed "Ham" to buy amateur radio equipment.
Don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions of manufacturers, parts suppliers, and full-time engineers at the big stations. They don't mind talking to you and some like to tell you how they saved money!
Y'all are creative when it comes to programming. Why not sit and think about how to do the same for the other areas of station operation. Don't be afraid to take the plunge. We need more INDEPENDENT full-power radio stations.
I know you will agree with that!
Also, I'm saving some construction money by utilizing amateur radio parts wherever appropriate. For example, the coax between the transmitter and antenna. I didn't buy LMR-600 for $630. I bought the equivalent from our local "Ham" radio store for $122. And, no, you don't have to be a licensed "Ham" to buy amateur radio equipment.
Don't be afraid to ask a lot of questions of manufacturers, parts suppliers, and full-time engineers at the big stations. They don't mind talking to you and some like to tell you how they saved money!
Y'all are creative when it comes to programming. Why not sit and think about how to do the same for the other areas of station operation. Don't be afraid to take the plunge. We need more INDEPENDENT full-power radio stations.
I know you will agree with that!
Desert Ear,
Thank you for the great info. So many times those of us with programming and sales experience don't even question the technical end.
Would love to know about your station. Over the past few years I've tried to learn more of small community stations to broaden my knowledge since I too want to establish a small town station where media is that station and the radio dial is primarily vacant.
I recall an instance at the station I manage that was rather funny. Our control room board had died on us and a new board had been purchased. On that Friday, the engineer set to work. By about 6pm he was done. At this point a few parts in the board blew. Plain and simple, no parts until Tuesday. Our weekend programming was a revolving door of paid ethnic and religious programs, mostly live. We had to have two studios up and running. Our engineer asked what the brand of mixer I had at the house for my studio. He rushed out the door, bought a Behringer and came back. That weekend we ran on the Behringer. Monday the station owner asked what the engineer did to the processing, saying we sounded great. Our big weekday client (the head guy), cames to town and when he gets to the station. His first comment is the station sounds loud and well processed. Everybody was happy with the Behringer.
Bill
Thank you for the great info. So many times those of us with programming and sales experience don't even question the technical end.
Would love to know about your station. Over the past few years I've tried to learn more of small community stations to broaden my knowledge since I too want to establish a small town station where media is that station and the radio dial is primarily vacant.
I recall an instance at the station I manage that was rather funny. Our control room board had died on us and a new board had been purchased. On that Friday, the engineer set to work. By about 6pm he was done. At this point a few parts in the board blew. Plain and simple, no parts until Tuesday. Our weekend programming was a revolving door of paid ethnic and religious programs, mostly live. We had to have two studios up and running. Our engineer asked what the brand of mixer I had at the house for my studio. He rushed out the door, bought a Behringer and came back. That weekend we ran on the Behringer. Monday the station owner asked what the engineer did to the processing, saying we sounded great. Our big weekday client (the head guy), cames to town and when he gets to the station. His first comment is the station sounds loud and well processed. Everybody was happy with the Behringer.
Bill
Desert Ear,
Glad to hear about your progress!
I've had two towers donated. One is a 45' tower, in three 15 foot sections. The other is a 30 foot Rohn, with three ten-foot sections. One was being taken down in Wakulla County, and the other was in South Georgia. In both cases, the owners just needed them gone. I've also been offered a 50-watt FM exciter if I decide to pursue an LPFM. At least for back-up if not the main.
Today I went and inspected (and subsequently bought) a fairly small office trailer building for the studios. I'm planning to do some paring down to make the studios more efficient.
Above all, I am just praying right now to see which doors God opens. Some things do seem to be beginning to fall into place.
Glad to hear about your progress!
I've had two towers donated. One is a 45' tower, in three 15 foot sections. The other is a 30 foot Rohn, with three ten-foot sections. One was being taken down in Wakulla County, and the other was in South Georgia. In both cases, the owners just needed them gone. I've also been offered a 50-watt FM exciter if I decide to pursue an LPFM. At least for back-up if not the main.
Today I went and inspected (and subsequently bought) a fairly small office trailer building for the studios. I'm planning to do some paring down to make the studios more efficient.
Above all, I am just praying right now to see which doors God opens. Some things do seem to be beginning to fall into place.
It is well worth your while to become friends with other local broadcasters and their engineers. Many times, they are a bit envious that you are doing what they've always wanted to do. Very often, they are more than willing to actually help you. Contrary to popular belief, the folks who run your area radios stations aren't always ogres. More often than not, they are really nice people who love radio as much, if not more, than you do. The difference is they have a job they'd like to keep, so they have done what their corporate bosses have told them to do.
These people can become tremendous resources for old equipment, mentoring and just plain friendship. Choose a format that doesn't threaten them, and they can become close friends. I’d also recommend becoming involved in your state broadcast association and attending local SBE meetings. You will meet some great people.
These people can become tremendous resources for old equipment, mentoring and just plain friendship. Choose a format that doesn't threaten them, and they can become close friends. I’d also recommend becoming involved in your state broadcast association and attending local SBE meetings. You will meet some great people.
oaktree said:Josh,
I know how well meaning your are and passionate about this. I commend you. Let me ask you a few questions that a specific to an answer; not a "theory", a dream, or an evasion. Honest answer, not based on dreaming.
1. First, would you buy any of the examples give (low power, graveyard AM stations)? Why?
2. Do you have a satisfactory business plan in writing that demonstrate your ability to successfully operate a radio station?
3. Have you ever owned or worked for a radio station? Where? Doing what?
4. Have you ever "sold" what makes radio work -- advertising? (Formats are a dime a dozen and not the reason for success.)
5. What kind of research have you done on these stations and what proof do you have of their "potential."
6. What kind of due diligence have you done to see the "proven" track record of these stations?
Now, with the economy as it is, the areas (not markets) you are describing, the facilities these are (that cost money to maintain, pay taxes on, to hire people, to promote, to earn the trust of a community and to convince what advertising "may" or, quite probably, "won't be" available -- how do you think you are set to do this? I'm betting you aren't -- because, low price doesn't mean "good deal" -- and you probably don't have the money to do it. Understandable. Now, if you said, "These facilities will guarantee billing of $250,000 a year, with an operating budget of $175,000 of year and a 36% profit -- you'd do fine.
Anything below that, you're dreaming. And as an owner, how much do you think you're worth, Josh? A thousand a month? (Not enough to live.) $2000 a month? (barely livable.) $3k? $5k? more? How much do YOU want to make? And with all the fees, license, music licensing, equipment costs, etc. -- you just don't "buy" a station. You have to have enough money to "operate" -- and that means even for $75,000 -- that's a bank note, if you can get one, of $2,000 a month over 5 years, (with lots of interest.)
Owners don't "give away" radio stations. That's why they have a low cost. If they were successful and profitable, they would sell for a lot more -- and as many have said here in the past to you, "It's a BUSINESS," and the cheaper they are, the more difficult -- and professional -- that business is.
It's AM, Josh. The future is not good for AM, even in small burgs. There are too many options today.
Just because someone can buy a "dog" doesn't mean it will "bark." Just sayin'.
But first, form a small (very small) group of investors, Josh, and surround yourself with true radio business people -- not fans or wannabees -- who know how to make this kind of transaction work.
Or else, you'll be the next "operator" turning off a radio station and hoping that someone will buy it -- at any price.
This isn't Part 15 radio. This is real business.
Good luck.
Oaktree, this is great advice. I'm working on a business plan right for a LDTV station which, I believe, will be servicing the same area as your radio station and have encountered some of the questions you posed.
Josh, I highly recommend that you do a business plan for whatever property you're interested in. Sure, it's a lot of work but a business plan will force you to plug in the numbers, analyze the market, identify your revenue streams and define how your proposed station will set it apart from what is already there and be successful. Certainly lenders want this information as it relates to repaying their loan. But if nothing else, a business plan will help you to see if your venture even makes sense. It doesn't have to be long.My business plan is 12 pages.
Oaktree's numbers are correct and so is his point about costs you will encounter but may not have considered. Heck, I'm even looking at labor laws and employer requirements in anticipation that I may need a couple of employees for the station. One thing I've discovered is that real broadcasting is a complex business.
I'll offer a few tidbits of info for what it is worth:
I've been told to always do a little less than your budget allows just in case you have some less than stellar financial times (economy, transmitter has to be replaced, etc.). The reasoning was explained this way: every step you take in offering more service to your community is viewed by listeners and potential advertisers as another successful step. Once you take a step back, you're no longer seen as successful. The idea is everybody wants to be associated with a winner.
When you look at a facility only believe what you uncover. If you get a promise of this or that, even if it is in writing, forcing the issue may cost you more. Claims of sales being $X means nothing. How much is collected? How accurate are the books. In a related issue, I made a deal on a new job...got it in writing too. When I got there, the extras were missing. I said "you promised that in writing". Reality slapped me in the face: "I promised what I had to promise to get you here. If you don't like it, sue me." Conclusion: I had neither the money or immediate job elsewhere to enforce the contract. I had to deal with what I had.
Know the market. How does the community view the station. How much of a mover and shaker is the owner. If you're not just as 'powerful' or 'influential' you likely won't do as well financially.
Figure the market potential. How well does the newspaper or other stations in the area do? A rule of thumb is $4 per $1,000 in retail sales spent in radio but this figure could be anything....$0.40 per $1,000 in retail sales or maybe $80 per $1,000.
Figure your business plan and ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SALARY FOR 12 MONTHS TO 24 MONTHS in the amount you need. Do not utilize trades. You need cash. Trades are for stations already making money, period. Once the business plan is done, I'd slice my revenue figures in half! Why? You were likely too high in predicting sales and nothing looks better to your money people than beating your business plan.
Don't forget breakdowns. Figure way over what you think you'll spend on maintenance and improvements/replacement equipment. The last thing you want is to not have the money for unexpected repairs or equipment replacement.
I've been told to always do a little less than your budget allows just in case you have some less than stellar financial times (economy, transmitter has to be replaced, etc.). The reasoning was explained this way: every step you take in offering more service to your community is viewed by listeners and potential advertisers as another successful step. Once you take a step back, you're no longer seen as successful. The idea is everybody wants to be associated with a winner.
When you look at a facility only believe what you uncover. If you get a promise of this or that, even if it is in writing, forcing the issue may cost you more. Claims of sales being $X means nothing. How much is collected? How accurate are the books. In a related issue, I made a deal on a new job...got it in writing too. When I got there, the extras were missing. I said "you promised that in writing". Reality slapped me in the face: "I promised what I had to promise to get you here. If you don't like it, sue me." Conclusion: I had neither the money or immediate job elsewhere to enforce the contract. I had to deal with what I had.
Know the market. How does the community view the station. How much of a mover and shaker is the owner. If you're not just as 'powerful' or 'influential' you likely won't do as well financially.
Figure the market potential. How well does the newspaper or other stations in the area do? A rule of thumb is $4 per $1,000 in retail sales spent in radio but this figure could be anything....$0.40 per $1,000 in retail sales or maybe $80 per $1,000.
Figure your business plan and ALWAYS INCLUDE YOUR SALARY FOR 12 MONTHS TO 24 MONTHS in the amount you need. Do not utilize trades. You need cash. Trades are for stations already making money, period. Once the business plan is done, I'd slice my revenue figures in half! Why? You were likely too high in predicting sales and nothing looks better to your money people than beating your business plan.
Don't forget breakdowns. Figure way over what you think you'll spend on maintenance and improvements/replacement equipment. The last thing you want is to not have the money for unexpected repairs or equipment replacement.
bturner said:Don't forget breakdowns. Figure way over what you think you'll spend on maintenance and improvements/replacement equipment. The last thing you want is to not have the money for unexpected repairs or equipment replacement.
Unless everything is brand new (unusual in radio) then just plan on replacing EVERYTHING (except maybe the tower) in the course of your first year or two of operation. Frequently stations that are for sale, need a lot of work. A lot of times, owners figure it is easier to sell their troubles, rather than fix them. Just be prepared....
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