Part 15 it can't be legal because:

[druidhillsradio]

Chuck, Your website does not work.

 

[rfry]

If your ground lead is grounded to the tower (which is grounded) you didn't install the tower to be a long ground wire.

But that tower in fact becomes a major part of the antenna system of a Part 15 AM setup at its top -- whether or not the tower was erected for that purpose. Part 15.219(b) does not permit radiating lengths longer than 3 meters, regardless of such circumstances.

If your house is on the 12,000 foot hill outside of town (which is also grounded by earth) at a higher height does this mean you should dig a hole or move?

A Part 15 AM setup installed on that hill (mountain?), with its chassis ground terminal a few inches above the earth and attached to a buried ground rod, while using a 2.x-meter conductor attached to its antenna connector could be in strict compliance with 15.219(b).

The earth does not become a radiating part of the antenna system, even though its elevation there may be 12,000 feet higher than some other location.

RF

 

[WCWalker]

If your ground lead is grounded to the tower (which is grounded) you didn't install the tower to be a long ground wire.

But that tower in fact becomes a major part of the antenna system of a Part 15 AM setup at its top -- whether or not the tower was erected for that purpose. Part 15.219(b) does not permit radiating lengths longer than 3 meters, regardless of such circumstances.

If your house is on the 12,000 foot hill outside of town (which is also grounded by earth) at a higher height does this mean you should dig a hole or move?

A Part 15 AM setup installed on that hill (mountain?), with its chassis ground terminal a few inches above the earth and attached to a buried ground rod, while using a 2.x-meter conductor attached to its antenna connector could be in strict compliance with 15.219(b).

The earth does not become a radiating part of the antenna system, even though its elevation there may be 12,000 feet higher than some other location.

RF

Now that you are retired, you have too much spare time on your hands. Why not find a station that needs some volunteers and give them a hand?

 

[WCWalker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrier_current

Carrier current transmissions leak radio waves off power lines yet the power lines are not considered to be a antenna. Same with the neutral line if that is also used. Just because the object that a Part 15 AM transmitter may or may not radiate some signal does not mean it is also part of the antenna.

Or what if someone devised a way to create a passive radiator that while not physically attached to the transmitter, could still radiate signal even if it was located a few inches away from the main radiator yet not physically connected?

 

[rfry]

Carrier current transmissions leak radio waves off power lines yet the power lines are not considered to be a antenna. Same with the neutral line if that is also used.

Not considered so by whom? A prominent manufacturer of carrier current transmitters and accessories includes this text clip from their web page at http://www.radiosystems.com/carriercurrent.html (text attributes added by me):

Radio Systems' CP-15 Coupler is a unique antenna matching device with sophisticated, specialized circuitry for low power AM broadcasting. Existing electrical wiring is frequently used as an antenna for low power systems.

Just because the object that a Part 15 AM transmitter (is connected to?) may or may not radiate some signal does not mean it is also part of the antenna.

That definition would include the 3-meter whip, would it not? By definition, if a conductor radiates, then it is functional antenna.

Or what if someone devised a way to create a passive radiator that while not physically attached to the transmitter, could still radiate signal even if it was located a few inches away from the main radiator yet not physically connected?

If such a passive radiator changes the radiation pattern and/or coverage area of the 3-meter radiating antenna length driven by the transmitter as permitted by 15.219(b), then physics shows that it is part of the antenna system.

RF

 

[littlejohn]

>Now that you are retired, you have too much spare time on your hands. Why not find a station that needs some >volunteers and give them a hand?

That the gentleman givesw what appears to be accurate and timely advice bothers you exactly why?

 

[ChiefEngineer]

My first radio station experience was a station in Columbus Indiana operated by the local Sheriff. This was his re-election campaign.

100 mw transmitter with a short wire coiled particularly near to a 100 foot tower (ungrounded) with a hat on the top. Worked really well over the whole county.

Staff at the Commission have had many remarks which are not in fluid continuity with each other.

Part 15 should go less than 100 feet. Not in the Rules. Look on the internet at all the wireless internet systems that cover whole communities.

Part 15 should not interfere. Look at interference to licensed stations by Sirius XM and a host of computer and lighting devices. I remember years ago being told by a neighbor with a cordless phone my licensed 10 watt ham rig (2m) was into his phone and he was calling the FCC. The phone was unsheilded and Part 15. I told him they would tell him to shut his phone off. I did get a call from Staff and told them his phone was unsheilded and had to explain the brand, etc. Eventually they told him it was junk and not to use it.

To get past name calling consider the Rules relative to Am da antenna systems which should not be affected by certain types of towers. Some are required to be detuned, other services not. The power line for example, is non regulated and many transmission lines are a part of the antenna system as such but not licensed or regulated or considered in most cases.

More importantly look at licensed stations broadcasting many times their licensed power, Is this such issue if you cover 5 square blocks of mayberry with something that has the same output of my Part 15 garage door opener?

 

[WCWalker]

>Now that you are retired, you have too much spare time on your hands. Why not find a station that needs some >volunteers and give them a hand?

That the gentleman givesw what appears to be accurate and timely advice bothers you exactly why?

For starters he's never even operated a Part 15 AM station let alone used a Type Accepted transmitter.

Second. Telling people that their installations are illegal without having personally inspected them (I've seen this in other message strings over the years) seems to be in rather poor taste.

Third. Recently he's taken to harassing the manufacturer's of some of these transmitters claiming they are not legal units.

Fourth. A couple of years ago he alleged the FCC was allowing Type Acceptance of transmitters that are not legal. Essentially he states the entire Type Acceptance process was corrupt and should be investigated. Strong words from someone that has nothing more than heresay for evidence. Has he even reverse engineered a transmitter to back up his claim? Nope.

As someone that has a personal friend at the FCC in DC and many family and friends that work for the Federal government, I take offense at his absurd accusations against reputable manufacturers and their customers. I think he needs to find a better way to spend his time than to vilify users and manufacturers of peanut whistle AM transmitters.

Understand?

 

[edarmsttrong]

More importantly look at licensed stations broadcasting many times their licensed power, Is this such issue if you cover 5 square blocks of mayberry with something that has the same output of my Part 15 garage door opener?

The FCC does take issue with people who radiate RF energy and are not in compliance with the rules.

They do have a problem with you covering 5 square blocks in Mayberry.

Sad but true.

LPFM is a sick joke...real community radio would have been served best by allowing what New Zealand allows: 500 mW using 100KF8E modulation, commercial or non-commercial, unlicensed at any height, on certain frequencies at each end of the FM band, utilizing type accepted equipment. Broadcasters on these frequencies are required to cease operations if they interfere with other, licensed broadcasters and have no protection from interference from other licensed or unlicensed broadcasters. There exists a 25 km rule: You may operate two transmitters anywhere (close together), but a third transmitter must be 25 km away.

There are efforts on self-regulation of the broadcasters themselves. That's how New Zealand does it.

Let's face it...that kind of signal would have enough coverage to make any 'community broadcaster' happy.

And, then this whole Part 15 AM argument could have been be null and void. It just may be, after the Hams get 530 KHz thru 1700 KHz in a few more years.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

LPFM is a sick joke...real community radio would have been served best by allowing what New Zealand allows: 500 mW using 100KF8E modulation, commercial or non-commercial, unlicensed at any height, on certain frequencies at each end of the FM band, utilizing type accepted equipment.

Would you elaborate on this technology? 500 mW will go how far?

 

[edarmsttrong]

LPFM is a sick joke...real community radio would have been served best by allowing what New Zealand allows: 500 mW using 100KF8E modulation, commercial or non-commercial, unlicensed at any height, on certain frequencies at each end of the FM band, utilizing type accepted equipment.

Would you elaborate on this technology? 500 mW will go how far?

Tough question...it depends on many factors.

Ask Rich Fry, I'm sure he knows...

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

LPFM is a sick joke...real community radio would have been served best by allowing what New Zealand allows: 500 mW using 100KF8E modulation, commercial or non-commercial, unlicensed at any height, on certain frequencies at each end of the FM band, utilizing type accepted equipment.

Would you elaborate on this technology? 500 mW will go how far?

Tough question...it depends on many factors.

The factor that I am interested in is "100KF8E modulation". What is it? Google won't talk about it. You seem to have a fondness for it. I thought you could explain it to us.

Put the antenna up on a 100 foot tower @ 500 mW and maybe get what? 1,000 feet of coverage? Two city blocks in each direction?

 

[edarmsttrong]

Sorry...I thought you were asking what 500 mW would cover.

100K= 100 KHz bandwidth (FM in the US is 200 KHz)

F= FM (Frequency Modulation)

8= Stereo (More than one channel containing analog information)

E= Telephony (voice or music intended to be listened to by a human)

100KF8E is an emissions designator. You will need to know info like that, when you fill out some FCC applications.

 

[edarmsttrong]

Put the antenna up on a 100 foot tower @ 500 mW and maybe get what? 1,000 feet of coverage? Two city blocks in each direction?

Check out this site (Canadian 'FCC' site- Industry Canada) :

http://lrcov.crc.ca/cov.php?lang=en

You could start here for coverage area estimates...

BTW - I tried your .5 watts at 100 feet and get about a two mile radius.

 

[edarmsttrong]

Someone needs to tell these guys Part 15 AM isn't legal....

http://www.iamradio.net/

 

[WCWalker]

Someone needs to tell these guys Part 15 AM isn't legal....

http://www.iamradio.net/

Your half watt FM with a two mile radius is what's not legal.

 

[rfry]

Telling people that their installations are illegal without having personally inspected them (I've seen this in other message strings over the years) seems to be in rather poor taste.

Absolutely false. I have told no one that his/her installation is illegal, and could not, because I don't know what configuration they installed. I have posted provable analyses showing that certain installation configurations do not functionally meet Part 15.219(b). It is up to readers to determine if such details apply to them.

Recently he's taken to harassing the manufacturer's of some of these transmitters claiming they are not legal units.

Absolutely false. I have contacted some manufacturers asking for clarification or comment on some of the information they supply about installing their transmitters.

Any transmitter that is FCC-certified for Part 15 AM use is not illegal, by definition. But that does not preclude someone from installing it in a way that is functionally non-compliant with Part 15.

RF

 

[WCWalker]

Telling people that their installations are illegal without having personally inspected them (I've seen this in other message strings over the years) seems to be in rather poor taste.

Absolutely false. I have told no one that his/her installation is illegal, and could not, because I don't know what configuration they installed. I have posted provable analyses showing that certain installation configurations do not functionally meet Part 15.219(b). It is up to readers to determine if such details apply to them.

Recently he's taken to harassing the manufacturer's of some of these transmitters claiming they are not legal units.

Absolutely false. I have contacted some manufacturers asking for clarification or comment on some of the information they supply about installing their transmitters.

Any transmitter that is FCC-certified for Part 15 AM use is not illegal, by definition. But that does not preclude someone from installing it in a way that is functionally non-compliant with Part 15.

RF

The information I've received from more than one source indicates otherwise.

People have grown weary of your self imposed police action upon the Part 15 community. One thing I've learned over the years is this. People that are very quick to point out the faults in others or in this case, claiming that what they might be doing is illegal, usually require greater scrutiny because they themselves are very likely to be engaged in some kind of nefarious activity. Their crusade against others is merely an attempt to cover up their own misdeeds.

 

[Goat Rodeo Cowboy]

Check out this site (Canadian 'FCC' site- Industry Canada) :
http://lrcov.crc.ca/cov.php?lang=en
You could start here for coverage area estimates...

BTW - I tried your .5 watts at 100 feet and get about a two mile radius.

No, not MY .5 Watts... you are the one suggesting the New Zeland model which you reported as a 500 miliWatt scheme.

Define the signal level necessary for "coverage".

My approach to coverage for FM is that you need a signal between 68 to 75 dBµ to achieve "coverage" and for business plan purposes, I focus on what would happen if my potential audience was limited to the 80 dBµ coverage area. Any listeners outside that area is just extra gravy on the entree.

 

[edarmsttrong]

No, not MY .5 Watts... you are the one suggesting the New Zeland model which you reported as a 500 miliWatt scheme.

You came up with the hypothetical parameters...

Define the signal level necessary for "coverage".

My approach to coverage for FM is that you need a signal between 68 to 75 dBµ to achieve "coverage" and for business plan purposes, I focus on what would happen if my potential audience was limited to the 80 dBµ coverage area. Any listeners outside that area is just extra gravy on the entree.

Utilizing the CRC website, signal strength at the two mile radius is about 60 dBµv. Obviously, a low power situation. A signal like that is not meant to be a 'flamethrower'. Just enough signal level to be useful to a true local 'community broadcaster' similar to a Part 15 AM operation.

On a side note, that kind of signal would be enough to cover all of Ord, MN easily. Or, 80% of the city of Omaha, NE for example. Obviously, if one were to utilize multiple transmitters, that would change things...