Paul Shafer and the CBS Orchestra

[anotherguyTN]

Perhaps this getting off topic, but I've wondered why Carson didn't speak up and let NBC know Letterman was his preference for his replacement before they named Leno, possibly even before he announced his retirement. Late night TV history might have been different if he had. I think Letterman could possibly still be going strong on NBC, and Leno would have probably ended up on CBS or ABC.

 

[therealjm12]

OK, was there ever an ABC Orchestra?

I don't think so as such. Since ABC was spun off from the NBC Blue network in the 40's. By that time recorded music was the norm, so a staff large orchestra wasn't really needed. Of course, ABC had their variety programs with various musicians and leaders but I don't think the term ABC Orchestra was ever used

 

[rwells2265]

Perhaps this getting off topic, but I've wondered why Carson didn't speak up and let NBC know Letterman was his preference for his replacement before they named Leno, possibly even before he announced his retirement. Late night TV history might have been different if he had. I think Letterman could possibly still be going strong on NBC, and Leno would have probably ended up on CBS or ABC.

It would've been for naught, in light of the little deal Helen Kushnick made for Jay.  At the time, much as I felt Dave got royally screwed, I now look back and think a David Letterman Tonight Show would've been a case of "be careful what you wish for" -- just imagine how Dave would've chafed under the short budgetary (and management) leash of NBC, versus CBS.  NBC got what they wanted by going with Leno: a non-threatening joke machine.  Bob Hope, v2.0.   

To be fair, Dave's been mailing it in for some time, and I say that even as a longtime admirer of Letterman.  But I do not buy for a minute the whole "nice guy, ordinary working man" facade Leno's been wearing for decades now.

I think I'd best be careful, otherwise Leno's feelings will be hurt.  Whoops, is that my cellphone ringing??    :

--Russell

 

[FreddyE1977]

But I do not buy for a minute the whole "nice guy, ordinary working man" facade Leno's been wearing for decades now.

People I know who have met him claim to have found this was actually pretty much the case.
If it's an act he's apparently darned good at it.

 

[LKellerIII]

But I do not buy for a minute the whole "nice guy, ordinary working man" facade Leno's been wearing for decades now.

People I know who have met him claim to have found this was actually pretty much the case.
If it's an act he's apparently darned good at it.

I'm not a fan, but everything I've heard confirms that Leno actually is a nice guy - though he could hardly be considered (nor does he claim to be) an "ordinary working man."

From what I've read, he was also popular and well-respected in his stand-up days among other comics, but lost much of that respect during his take-over of the Toinight Show, then lost even more respect in the Leno/Conan debacle of a couple years ago.

 

[FreddyE1977]

But I do not buy for a minute the whole "nice guy, ordinary working man" facade Leno's been wearing for decades now.

People I know who have met him claim to have found this was actually pretty much the case.
If it's an act he's apparently darned good at it.

I'm not a fan, but everything I've heard confirms that Leno actually is a nice guy - though he could hardly be considered (nor does he claim to be) an "ordinary working man."

From what I've read, he was also popular and well-respected in his stand-up days among other comics, but lost much of that respect during his take-over of the Toinight Show, then lost even more respect in the Leno/Conan debacle of a couple years ago.

Though he will never live down his credit as "Guy With V.D." in that old episode of Good Times.

 

[rwells2265]

From what I've read, he was also popular and well-respected in his stand-up days among other comics, but lost much of that respect during his take-over of the Toinight Show, then lost even more respect in the Leno/Conan debacle of a couple years ago.

To clarify my earlier remark re Leno, I cannot imagine he would be anything but a nice guy to those who meet him. And I was a bit fond of him in the '80s -- especially his guest spots with Letterman. But some people can wear a convincing public face. To his credit, Leno has done a great job cultivating the image he's had for 20 years. Inside, I just smell something different. Always have with him.

I hate to use this as a comparison, but I think of my father-in-law. Anyone who encounters him will go away thinking of him as a super-nice guy, with a heart of gold. He'll talk and charm anyone. But in the privacy of his home - and especially church - it's a different story. Very self-centered and conniving. It was sickening when I first realized the public face was a big facade.

I guess I'll have to be the one to digress here.

--Russell

 

[LKellerIII]

From what I've read, he was also popular and well-respected in his stand-up days among other comics, but lost much of that respect during his take-over of the Toinight Show, then lost even more respect in the Leno/Conan debacle of a couple years ago.

To clarify my earlier remark re Leno, I cannot imagine he would be anything but a nice guy to those who meet him. And I was a bit fond of him in the '80s -- especially his guest spots with Letterman. But some people can wear a convincing public face. To his credit, Leno has done a great job cultivating the image he's had for 20 years. Inside, I just smell something different. Always have with him.

I hate to use this as a comparison, but I think of my father-in-law. Anyone who encounters him will go away thinking of him as a super-nice guy, with a heart of gold. He'll talk and charm anyone. But in the privacy of his home - and especially church - it's a different story. Very self-centered and conniving. It was sickening when I first realized the public face was a big facade.
[/quotek

You could be right, of course - who Knows? Certainly The Late Shift - the 1996 TV movie about the talk show competition when Carson retired - does not paint a flattering picture of Leno. But like any movie, it's hard to say how much was true, and how much was "literary license."

To be clear - though he lost respect from other comics for taking back The Tonight Show, i don't blame him. He stepped down for Conan without any fuss, and took on that 10 O'Clock debacle of a show. Who could blame him for wanting to take back the 11:35 slot? And it's worth noting that Conan's Tonight Show was a poor effort - and I say that as a Conan fan. His TBS show is far superior.

 

[benwolf]

Perhaps this getting off topic, but I've wondered why Carson didn't speak up and let NBC know Letterman was his preference for his replacement before they named Leno, possibly even before he announced his retirement. Late night TV history might have been different if he had. I think Letterman could possibly still be going strong on NBC, and Leno would have probably ended up on CBS or ABC.

It would've been for naught, in light of the little deal Helen Kushnick made for Jay. At the time, much as I felt Dave got royally screwed, I now look back and think a David Letterman Tonight Show would've been a case of "be careful what you wish for" -- just imagine how Dave would've chafed under the short budgetary (and management) leash of NBC, versus CBS. NBC got what they wanted by going with Leno: a non-threatening joke machine. Bob Hope, v2.0.

To be fair, Dave's been mailing it in for some time, and I say that even as a longtime admirer of Letterman. But I do not buy for a minute the whole "nice guy, ordinary working man" facade Leno's been wearing for decades now.

I think I'd best be careful, otherwise Leno's feelings will be hurt. Whoops, is that my cellphone ringing?? :

--Russell

I guess I'm in the minority...I think Letterman is better on CBS than he was on NBC. Look at those old Late Night shows today and they are unbelievably corny, manic, full of slapstick and reminiscent of radio morning zoos that fell out of fashion. It like watching a Laugh-In episode 20 years late. If Dave was hosting like that now he'd be irrelevant and he knows it. The writing is better, and it's not at all like they're mailing it in. (although Kimmel is funnier).

And I agree with LKeller. Conan on TBS is very good, but his stint hosting the Tonight Show was painful!

 

[F.M.Hertz]

I agree with Russell. Not about his father-in-law, but Letterman. His NBC years and the years at CBS until 1997 were the halcyon days for him. He was at his most creative, witty, and used TV like a toy. Now it's almost a completely different show. There are two points I'd like to make though.

1. Dave played it straight down the middle in his monologue as far as politics were concerned, and for that matter in his interviews. Johnny was the same way. In fact, you'd be hard pressed to this day to tell where Johnny Carson leaned to politcally. That seemed to change after Carson passed away in 2005. Dave began leaning to the left of the aisle, it seemed, after Johnny died. It seemed, to me, almost as if Johnny's gone, I can tell the jokes and skewer who I want. It was like he was still looking for the Carson Seal of Approval.

2. Next week, PBS' American Masters will have devote their program to the life of Johnny Carson. Lots of interviews including thoughts from Peter Lasally (Producer for Carson, Letterman, and now Craig Ferguson), Conan O'Brien (rightly so), Jerry Seinfeld (a favorite comic of Johnny's), Drew Carey (one of the very few comedians that Johnny called to the panel after his first Tonight Show set), and. . .(wait for it). . .Jay Leno record scratches. Huh? WTH? Why did they choose him? I think that Leno is the last person that I would have on a biography of Carson celebrating his life. Leno says that he wasn't involved in the takepover plot in 1991, that is was Helen Kusknick, but as a bard once said in the early 1600s: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." In this case, Burbank.

Please opine.

 

[rwells2265]

I agree with Russell.  Not about his father-in-law, but Letterman.  His NBC years and the years at CBS until 1997 were the halcyon days for him.  He was at his most creative, witty, and used TV like a toy.  Now it's almost a completely different show. 

As Benwolf alluded, Dave has evolved.  And he'd look just plain stupid were he still doing his NBC "Late Night" stuff in 2012.  He rightfully modified his act for the move to CBS.  The man still has his moments, but - and it almost hurts to say this - Letterman could well be past his prime.  Or just burned out.  Even with that, though, Dave can kill when he wants to.

I think that Leno is the last person that I would have on a biography of Carson celebrating his life.  Leno says that he wasn't involved in the takepover plot in 1991, that is was Helen Kusknick, but as a bard once said in the early 1600s: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." In this case, Burbank.

Please opine.

Leno was very much involved.  No fewer than twice in Bill Carter's books is Leno quoted as referring to his being Italian, and doing so in the frame of the old stereotype ... not his lineage.  He's good at what he does -- cultivating the "aw shucks, nice guy" aura.  But Jay is very plugged into the game, and (I'm convinced) very cutthroat deep inside.  Those "Italian" remarks are always in the back of my mind in light of both 1991-92 and 2009-2010. 

At the heart of things, Helen Kushnick was Jay Leno's pitbull.  And you cannot convince me that Jay didn't know the biggest (if not full) extent of Helen's scorched-Earth tactics in regard to negotiations, guest booking, you name it.  A nice guy would be chewed up and spit out in TV-land ... so, how to reconcile an almost puppy-dog obsession of being liked with a fierce, single-minded desire to be #1?  Enter Helen. 

It was only the threat of Jay's gig in the wake of Helen's behavior being exposed (her tantrum when a political convention ran late, for one) that led him to sever that tie. 

Bottom line, Kushnick's plan worked.  It got Jay what he wanted.    As for what happened with the 10:00 fiasco -- the first person to blame is Jeff Zucker.  It was his idea.  The reality was, had a deal not been drawn up for Conan, I'm sure he'd have long ago bolted for either FOX or ABC.

In retrospect, Conan's "firing" might've been for the better.  His "Tonight" was a bit off ... his personality clashed with the bland/stodgy image "Tonight" seems to have.  His TBS gig is much better, although I wish he had a network home. 

We're down to this: Jay Leno's feet are now bolted to that "Tonight Show" stage.  Would anyone be surprised to see him still doing 11:35 monologues at the age of 95? 

--Russell

 

[F.M.Hertz]

Russell:

Great minds think alike. The "italian" remark came when he sneaked into a broom closet at NBC and tapped into the phone lines one night when the big wigs were in Florida discussing the Tonight Show's future (keep Leno or bring Dave out to L.A. to be the new host).

As for Jeff Zucker, what he did to NBC was a classic case of F.U.B.A.R.

Another question to throw out:

You've said that Leno will probably be hosting when he's 95. I think that they have a casket already backstage ready to go when he keels over after a monologue he does in the year 2042. That being said, who is Jay's replacement. Bring in Jimmy Kimmel or do you bring in someone else like what happened in 1992?

Luckily, Worldwide Pants (Letterman's company) and CBS became proactive last month, and realized that there will be a day when Dave won't be hosting, and both gave the nod to Craig Ferguson to take over the 11:35 time slot. Great move.

 

[rwells2265]

Jay Leno

F.M. --

Yes, the Pants/CBS succession deal was a smart move. And lucky for them, Letterman won't be given a 10:00 show, only to ... awwww, never mind.

I had a good laugh out of your "casket" comment. Jay Leno talks a good game in regard to humility, but it's not difficult to figure out that Jay is out to eclipse Johnny Carson's record as host of "Tonight." That'll come about, as I figure it, at the beginning of 2022. Count on him being around a decade from now, at the very least. He'll be, what, 75? It's possible.

But in all accounts of Jay Leno I've read, the core of it all is a pathological addiction to "telling jokes at 11:30." I cannot wrap my mind around the idea of him going through with a retirement, ala Carson. There's too much ego and insecurity at stake.

*********
Jay's replacement? Whenever that is ;D. Here's something to chew on. I'm mostly joking, but then again ...

Would it be out of the question for Jay's successor to be ... Jay Leno? A virtual Jay, on the stage, telling jokes? I'm sure they can piece together audio from all the years he's done the show. I mean, the jokes are pretty much assembly-line fodder, so it shouldn't be difficult, right? Would technology be advanced to where a hologram could conceivably "host" a program?

In a truly serious frame -- I suspect that by the time Jay is carried off the stage by six stagehands, the whole "late night" model will have changed, and it could well be end of the line for the "Tonight" institution.

--Russell

 

[KyDXIn]

I had heard that Chelsea Handler was a possibility of being Leno's replacement. This was before her prime time produced show came in with low ratings. Does NBC consider her as the next "Tonight Show" host?

 

[WMC2006]

Chelsea's show has been cancelled.

 

[dtuba]

Chelsea's show has been cancelled.

I think you are thinking of her awful NBC sit-com starring Laura Prepon. Her talk show on E!, Chelsea Lately, has not been cancelled.

Conan's show on TBS is okay, but not as good as his original show on NBC when he was on at 12:30 (IMHO). Sheer anarchic comic genius.

 

[1069_KIFR]

Jay Leno's continuous hosting duties will have the 9 month gap when he was not host of the Tonight Show. That streak was interrupted when Conan O'Brien officially took over the show. Leno's reign ended. Then when he bullied his way back onto the Tonight Show, his hosting duties start over. So to say he has hosted the Tonight Show for 21 years would be incorrect. Currently he has hosted the Tonight Show for 2 years.

Any anniversary shows for Leno will have to be a 5 year show in 2015.

 

[WMC2006]

Jay Leno's continuous hosting duties will have the 9 month gap when he was not host of the Tonight Show. That streak was interrupted when Conan O'Brien officially took over the show. Leno's reign ended. Then when he bullied his way back onto the Tonight Show, his hosting duties start over. So to say he has hosted the Tonight Show for 21 years would be incorrect. Currently he has hosted the Tonight Show for 2 years.

Any anniversary shows for Leno will have to be a 5 year show in 2015.

Kinda like when people say they've been married for 25 years. Except it's to 3 different people...10 years to 1 person, 10 to another, and 5 to someone else. ;D

Regarding my answer a couple of posts ago, Ky mentioned Chelsea's "priime time produced show" and NBC which led me to her NBC-cancelled show.

 

[Biffstunt]

I heard that Conan is on Letterman's show this Thursday night. Do you think there might be a little Leno-bashing taking place that night? :

 

[1069_KIFR]

Not a full out bashing, but I'm sure some really good zingers and barbs!