L
lash
Guest
As I expected. Thanks for reminding me not to read your opinions. Now go back to listening to your radio.
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Per R & R
- Thread starter toddjammin
- Start date
Lash, no one is required to list their credentials when they register. There are some pros who post here who don't want their names known to their employers. In short, it really and truly is none of your business.
According to your logic, no political pundit has a valid opinion about GWB's performance because none of them has ever held the office of President.
According to your logic, no political pundit has a valid opinion about GWB's performance because none of them has ever held the office of President.
Boss Radio said:We get it. Congratulations on being successful. Drive the Mercedes safely. But know that what you put out is utter crap.
I'd be inclined to agree with you if our product was crap, we had no listeners and weren't doing well financially. But it's not, we do, and we are, and apparently our listeners and advertisers don't think what we put out is crap either. Open your mind to some new ideas and you may learn something.
Here's what I learned: You can sell crap. It can be profitable. It doesn't mean it's good or that it's interesting to listen to, but it's profitable. Good for you. Not so good for the audience.
Boss Radio said:Here's what I learned: You can sell crap. It can be profitable. It doesn't mean it's good or that it's interesting to listen to, but it's profitable. Good for you. Not so good for the audience.
Uh huh...here's what you obviously didn't learn: Opinions are like...well, I'll just say that everybody has one. What you regard as crap is obviously not the consensus view if what you perceive to be crap is still here now, isn't it? How do you gauge what's crap as opposed to what isn't? It's all a matter of personal preference. I personally don't like listening to hard rock or alternative music, but does that mean it's crap? No. It's just not my style. Because I don't agree with the way someone does radio, that doesn't mean I automatically call it crap. I actually take the time and listen to a valid argument of why someone does what they do with their station.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Something about this list bothered me. The more I thought about it, the more something in kept sticking out.
If you do music research, you will find that in the aggregate, the music tested will fall into one of the following categories:
1. Songs that are loved
2. Songs that are liked, but not loved
3. Songs that are neutral (don't care)
4. Songs that are disliked or hated
5. Songs that are unfamiliar
Then it hit me. If you do real marketing research, you'd never have an answer like #5 in the mix, because there are really two possible answers for that question. When I was working more intensely in doing marketing research and focus groups, anyone who used one question with two answers like that one would have been fired, or at least demoted.
A tester who encountered a song (or other product choice) that was unfamiliar would have the choice of saying "I'm unfamiliar with it, but I like it" or "I'm unfamiliar with it, and I don't like it".
That goes for picking songs for a radio station, tasting barbecue sauces, sausages, or soda pop, or using some sort of hand cream. Any competent researcher testing products to see how the market responds would see how that makes sense. Any radio station that hires a consulting firm to test music for their playlist who uses that five answer matrix without breaking #5 into 5A and 5B as I listed above has hired the wrong consulting firm.
I may be out of the radio industry, but I spent a hell of a lot of years working in the marketing industry, including market testing. And the fundamental principles of good market testing remain the same in all industries.
If you do music research, you will find that in the aggregate, the music tested will fall into one of the following categories:
1. Songs that are loved
2. Songs that are liked, but not loved
3. Songs that are neutral (don't care)
4. Songs that are disliked or hated
5. Songs that are unfamiliar
Then it hit me. If you do real marketing research, you'd never have an answer like #5 in the mix, because there are really two possible answers for that question. When I was working more intensely in doing marketing research and focus groups, anyone who used one question with two answers like that one would have been fired, or at least demoted.
A tester who encountered a song (or other product choice) that was unfamiliar would have the choice of saying "I'm unfamiliar with it, but I like it" or "I'm unfamiliar with it, and I don't like it".
That goes for picking songs for a radio station, tasting barbecue sauces, sausages, or soda pop, or using some sort of hand cream. Any competent researcher testing products to see how the market responds would see how that makes sense. Any radio station that hires a consulting firm to test music for their playlist who uses that five answer matrix without breaking #5 into 5A and 5B as I listed above has hired the wrong consulting firm.
I may be out of the radio industry, but I spent a hell of a lot of years working in the marketing industry, including market testing. And the fundamental principles of good market testing remain the same in all industries.
kenhawk1160 said:Boss Radio said:Here's what I learned: You can sell crap. It can be profitable. It doesn't mean it's good or that it's interesting to listen to, but it's profitable. Good for you. Not so good for the audience.
Uh huh...here's what you obviously didn't learn: Opinions are like...well, I'll just say that everybody has one. What you regard as crap is obviously not the consensus view if what you perceive to be crap is still here now, isn't it? How do you gauge what's crap as opposed to what isn't? It's all a matter of personal preference. I personally don't like listening to hard rock or alternative music, but does that mean it's crap? No. It's just not my style. Because I don't agree with the way someone does radio, that doesn't mean I automatically call it crap. I actually take the time and listen to a valid argument of why someone does what they do with their station.
Do me a favor, Hawk, and list the Monday-Friday program schedule for your profitable station. Or post a link to the station website that has that information. We'll move forward from there.
L
lash
Guest
No one was asking for resumes to be posted, or names. A real pro in this business wouldn't just turn around and call what Ken works hard to do, and what his Butler stations accomplish...crap! That's a listeners opinion and not that of a true radio broadcaster. The independent small town broadcasters, and those that remain in the burbs around cities are all that is left of what we knew as radio.
If you don't like anything about radio anymore, than go listen to Satt. radio and start posting your complaints at their websites.
Political pundints can at least back up what they say! Either they held office of some kind or they are actually in the media.
If you don't like anything about radio anymore, than go listen to Satt. radio and start posting your complaints at their websites.
Political pundints can at least back up what they say! Either they held office of some kind or they are actually in the media.
Lash, when and where did I ever suggest I don't like anything about radio? That is a complete, 100 percent LIE and doesn't represent my thoughts at all.
You're telling me that "real pros" aren't critical of talent and programming? If you believe that, you're badly misguided. Hell, O'Brien and Garry (would you consider them "real pros" and "true radio broadcasters?") used to make fun of competing stations and personalities on the air. It's a competitive environment and competitors don't always say the nicest things about each other.
Lash, you don't know who I am -- and you won't -- so stop making assumptions about who I am and what I do. All that does is cloud the issues.
Stop trying to make this personal. This is about what comes out of the speaker, Lash. You put a product out there, you'd better be ready to have people offer opinions about it.
You're telling me that "real pros" aren't critical of talent and programming? If you believe that, you're badly misguided. Hell, O'Brien and Garry (would you consider them "real pros" and "true radio broadcasters?") used to make fun of competing stations and personalities on the air. It's a competitive environment and competitors don't always say the nicest things about each other.
Lash, you don't know who I am -- and you won't -- so stop making assumptions about who I am and what I do. All that does is cloud the issues.
Stop trying to make this personal. This is about what comes out of the speaker, Lash. You put a product out there, you'd better be ready to have people offer opinions about it.
Boss Radio said:Do me a favor, Hawk, and list the Monday-Friday program schedule for your profitable station. Or post a link to the station website that has that information. We'll move forward from there.
If you're the smart guy you think you are, Boss, you'll find the answer to that yourself. I won't have to supply that information for you. You obviously didn't do your homework before you let fly your opinions about my station.
kenhawk1160 said:Boss Radio said:Do me a favor, Hawk, and list the Monday-Friday program schedule for your profitable station. Or post a link to the station website that has that information. We'll move forward from there.
If you're the smart guy you think you are, Boss, you'll find the answer to that yourself. I won't have to supply that information for you. You obviously didn't do your homework before you let fly your opinions about my station.
Lame.
Lame. [/quote]
You just proved to me and everyone else participating on this board by that remark that you have no credentials to offer any credibility to this discussion whatsoever. I have a 20-year track record in this business at ALL LEVELS...not just as a jock or just as a salesperson. I've sat in everywhere from the air chair to the GM's office. Thus, I don't need to hide behind a pseudonym. I'd rather be called lame than foolish.
You just proved to me and everyone else participating on this board by that remark that you have no credentials to offer any credibility to this discussion whatsoever. I have a 20-year track record in this business at ALL LEVELS...not just as a jock or just as a salesperson. I've sat in everywhere from the air chair to the GM's office. Thus, I don't need to hide behind a pseudonym. I'd rather be called lame than foolish.
Then you're old enough to be more mature than you've shown here. I asked you to post the Monday through Friday program schedule of your station. You seem to be proud of the station. Let's discuss the programming content.
Instead, you give a wise-ass answer that leads to more silly name calling and baseless accusations instead of discussion. Talk about a lack of credibility.
Instead, you give a wise-ass answer that leads to more silly name calling and baseless accusations instead of discussion. Talk about a lack of credibility.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"Do me a favor, Hawk, and list the Monday-Friday program schedule for your profitable station."
A real boss of a radio station would know how to look up the websites to the only stations in the city of Butler. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to do that, but perhaps it is beyond the skills of someone who is the boss of a radio station.
Or, maybe you could ask Rob Pratte to help you.
A real boss of a radio station would know how to look up the websites to the only stations in the city of Butler. It doesn't require a rocket scientist to do that, but perhaps it is beyond the skills of someone who is the boss of a radio station.
Or, maybe you could ask Rob Pratte to help you.
If he posts the schedule here, then everyone can see it and discuss it.
L
lash
Guest
Are their websites for the Butler stations? I haven't been able to find them. The two AM's in Butler were music AM's, and sounded very local and solid last time I was back home. Butler, Washington, Indiana, and a few other stations outside of the city still go a great job with their stations. But every station needs a website.
I bet Bossman's stations would have websites kiddies!
I bet Bossman's stations would have websites kiddies!
You keep trying to make it personal, Lash. It isn't.
lash said:Are their websites for the Butler stations? I haven't been able to find them. The two AM's in Butler were music AM's, and sounded very local and solid last time I was back home. Butler, Washington, Indiana, and a few other stations outside of the city still go a great job with their stations. But every station needs a website. I bet Bossman's stations would have websites kiddies!
Chris, you can find them through Google. Or...since you were kind enough for the compliment, here's the website...www.insidebutlercounty.com. I'm very proud of our three stations and the job they do serving the community. The AM's are very local and we try to keep those as "Butler County" as possible. Our FM, which is much more music intensive, is a little more regional, but unlike other suburban stations, we don't try to pass ourselves off as a Pittsburgh station. We find that we do better marketing ourselves to also serving Allegheny, Beaver, Mercer, Armstrong and Venango Counties, in addition to Butler...and it works pretty well.
Boss Radio said:You keep trying to make it personal, Lash. It isn't.
This is what I don't get about you, Boss. You claim that this isn't personal, yet you seem to have no respect for anyone's opinions other than your own. I've butted heads with Realist (you'll forgive me for using you as an example) when I first joined this board more times than you can shake a stick at. I don't agree with EVERYTHING he posts, but I respect and value his opinion. Why? Because he at least takes some time to evaluate these posts and think about how he's going to answer. Occasionally, he might agree with you to a point. You don't seem to consider anyone's opinion other than your own, and your inability to discuss your own credentials doesn't make you any more valuable to this discussion. If anyone is resorting to 'name-calling' as you purport in that earlier post, it's YOU. It's baseless, it's unnecessary, and it's not going to garner you any more respect on this board. YOU are the one 'making it personal'.
As for Chris Lash, he and I were head to head competitors in another market, and we've launched torpedoes at each other on the air on many occasions. Off the air, we're cordial. He's brought a lot of very valuable information to this board, and he's not afraid to put his name and reputation on the line (unlike some people). I respect that. I haven't seen any hint of Chris making a 'personal' attack against you.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
"You claim that this isn't personal, yet you seem to have no respect for anyone's opinions other than your own."
Actually, I get the impression that he measures opinion only on the credentials of who is expressing them, not on the intrinsic values of the opinions themselves. Sadly, what is hurting radio the most (as well as most other American industries) is that attitude. The entire issue of whether or not to expand playlists or adjust testing methods really comes down to those who maintain the traditional view that "we've always done it that way, therefore we'll always continue to do it that way" versus those who insist that there should be sound, logical reasons for how things are done other than mere tradition.
That's why every time I ask "why" about anything, the response is usually "because we've been doing it that way for a long, long time".
Actually, I get the impression that he measures opinion only on the credentials of who is expressing them, not on the intrinsic values of the opinions themselves. Sadly, what is hurting radio the most (as well as most other American industries) is that attitude. The entire issue of whether or not to expand playlists or adjust testing methods really comes down to those who maintain the traditional view that "we've always done it that way, therefore we'll always continue to do it that way" versus those who insist that there should be sound, logical reasons for how things are done other than mere tradition.
That's why every time I ask "why" about anything, the response is usually "because we've been doing it that way for a long, long time".
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