Hmm... a choice betweek Clark Howard and Dave Ramsey?
I'll take option 'C' - Jim Cramer's "Real Money".
I'll take option 'C' - Jim Cramer's "Real Money".
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Personal Finance Smackdown: Clark Howard vs. Dave Ramsey
- Thread starter upstate29651
- Start date
E
evnlee
Guest
smedge2006 said:
the problem is that there aren't enough '2 paycheck households' in the lower income earners for your analogy to make sense.
Ramsey's message of 'clear your debt and save' works well for those '2 paycheck households' in the 25% lower income taxed bracket. It's the single income mothers and fathers scenario where I think his system breaks down. A single mother in an innercity environment does not have as many possibilities to clear debt and accrue assets as a '2 paycheck household'.
I personally like Howard better then Ramsey, but that's because Ramsey comes off (to me) as a 'Dr Laura' type credit counsellor, tough love, where Howard is more cerebral.
As far as the income gap, this country still provides the best chance for those in the lower brackets to get to the higher brackets the quickest. Your study may be correct that it takes 5 generations for to get 'from poverty to the upper percentiles', but compare the stats and I bet you will find (for those inclined), it takes alot longer for those other 'western countries' for the lowest bracket to jump to the highest bracket, and that the 'miracle stories' here vastly outnumber those of other 'western countries'.
The obvious proof is how many people are trying to get in to this 'western country' that believe they have a better chance of getting there the fastest in the good ol USA
Sermons vs suffering. I like the analogy about the sermon not changing until it's learned, but this slows the progress of the congregation.
Suffering is what's supposed to reinforce the message to those who did not take notes during the sermon.
It may take only 3 or 4 generations to rise, with work ethic and skimping.
Refernce to "upper brackets" is baseless.
Upper never stops, it's how much you'll ask...... for what you have to offer.
Smedge2006... you cut like a razor .. keep it sharp
If Dave Ramsey says we have bought stuff we couldn't afford yet, he's right.
I've never heard him, but we don't produce enough "value" to drive cars as new as most of us do....
A commodity with a very high depreciation.
I visit auto junkyards and cannot believe what fine condition vehicles are junked.
We never learned how to take care of anything that improvements have brought..
There's something foul with our economy that "entitles" us us to new goods before we have even learned to appreciate what we have.
The scope and depth of the wastage is unfathomable.
and praise God
Suffering is what's supposed to reinforce the message to those who did not take notes during the sermon.
It may take only 3 or 4 generations to rise, with work ethic and skimping.
Refernce to "upper brackets" is baseless.
Upper never stops, it's how much you'll ask...... for what you have to offer.
Smedge2006... you cut like a razor .. keep it sharp
If Dave Ramsey says we have bought stuff we couldn't afford yet, he's right.
I've never heard him, but we don't produce enough "value" to drive cars as new as most of us do....
A commodity with a very high depreciation.
I visit auto junkyards and cannot believe what fine condition vehicles are junked.
We never learned how to take care of anything that improvements have brought..
There's something foul with our economy that "entitles" us us to new goods before we have even learned to appreciate what we have.
The scope and depth of the wastage is unfathomable.
and praise God
E
Evangelist
Guest
Clark Howard is very knowledgeable and comes across as friendly and caring toward his listeners. His books are awesome, too.
>>>My objection to Dave Ramsey is that he tells working people that their financial difficulties are their fault and only their fault.<<<
And what should he be telling them? 'You're a poor helpless victim who can't possible achieve financial success unless the government takes care of you?'
Giving people a long list of reasons they are failures because of circumstances they have no control over isn't nearly as helpful as telling them some things they can do differently in the future from what they have done in the past.
And what should he be telling them? 'You're a poor helpless victim who can't possible achieve financial success unless the government takes care of you?'
Giving people a long list of reasons they are failures because of circumstances they have no control over isn't nearly as helpful as telling them some things they can do differently in the future from what they have done in the past.
I'm disappointed that three pages in, and no one has made what I consider the most important point: credibility.
Clark is a true consumer advocate. He does no endorsements. Think about that. His advice is unbought and unbossed. He is completely objective - objective that is, for consumers. Unabashedly 100% pro-consumer.
Dave Ramsey is a shill. Though much of his debt-free messaging is good, his radio show is simply a marketing tool for his multi-media empire. He promotes Dave-endorsed services which are play for pay. His site allows you to find 'Dave-partners' for most industries. He also tours churches throughout the U.S. for big bucks, and once inside, the seminar resembles a moblie Barnes and Noble. He also is approved to sell bankruptcy education to filers under the new.
I don't begrudge Ramsey making a buck, and congratulate him on a NYTimes best selling book. But I don't believe his heart is in the right place, and I certainly don't trust a 'consumer guy' with the massive number of endorsements he makes.
If we were talking best voice, or best marketed package, that is different. But Ramsey can't hold a candle to the beacon of objective consumer help and hope that is Clark Howard. In the end, that's all that should matter for listeners.
Clark is a true consumer advocate. He does no endorsements. Think about that. His advice is unbought and unbossed. He is completely objective - objective that is, for consumers. Unabashedly 100% pro-consumer.
Dave Ramsey is a shill. Though much of his debt-free messaging is good, his radio show is simply a marketing tool for his multi-media empire. He promotes Dave-endorsed services which are play for pay. His site allows you to find 'Dave-partners' for most industries. He also tours churches throughout the U.S. for big bucks, and once inside, the seminar resembles a moblie Barnes and Noble. He also is approved to sell bankruptcy education to filers under the new.
I don't begrudge Ramsey making a buck, and congratulate him on a NYTimes best selling book. But I don't believe his heart is in the right place, and I certainly don't trust a 'consumer guy' with the massive number of endorsements he makes.
If we were talking best voice, or best marketed package, that is different. But Ramsey can't hold a candle to the beacon of objective consumer help and hope that is Clark Howard. In the end, that's all that should matter for listeners.
E
evnlee
Guest
Tom Riddle said:
your wrong about that. Howard does plenty of edorsements! And, if you think he is 'unbossed', wonder why he doesn't back the consumer when his parent company Cox is the culprit?
Cox bought out all thier newpaper competition in Atlanta, and promptly shut them down, making this one of the very few large population metropolis' with only ONE daily. This has not been at all good for the 'consumer', in any sense.
I still prefer Howard to Ramsey, but not because he is more 'principled'. That's a laugh
D
darrentandy
Guest
Great debate! I love Dave Ramsey's show because his callers are more compelling! If a couple has racked up $150,000 in credit card debt, there's usually a pretty good story behind it. The show is actually less about money...and more about life. Clark Howard is the perfect weekend host with lots of good consumer tips. The fact that Ramsey shares his faith is an added bonus. Believers shouldn't be surprised that some hate that...the Lord told us it would happen.
EVNLEE -- YOU ARE WRONG. Clark does no endorsements. You may not understand the difference between recommendations and endorsements. Clark frequently makes recommendations on new competitors, or companies offering the best deal today. He is NOT PAID to promote anything on his show. He refuses to do any endorsements, as he has since he started on WSB in Atlanta in 1991. Think Consumer Reports. His opinions are objective in that they are his and his alone. He may have a personal slant, but again, it is only his consumer bias. He has passed up tens of millions in endoresement dollars over the years. You have never, nor will you ever, hear Clark ona spot during his commercial breaks.
On the other hand, Ramsey takes payments to promote specific products, and has a paid referral program. Half of Ramsey's commercial breaks he voices the spot, and provides his endorsement.
That is why Ramsey will never touch Clark from a credibility standpoint.
Darrentandy, I don't want you to think I am hating on Ramsey for throwing in his religious slant. I don't, though some do. Ramsey started with the late Larry Burkett and Crown Financial Ministries. Larry was a saint. I understand that Ramsey broke off from Crown when it was apparent he was focused on self-promotion, as opposed to Crown's focus on Biblical principle and praising God. Too bad, because no one has filled the hole since Larry Burkett passed away. It could have been Ramsey, but though he throws some religion into his show, his highest cause is still himself.
On the other hand, Ramsey takes payments to promote specific products, and has a paid referral program. Half of Ramsey's commercial breaks he voices the spot, and provides his endorsement.
That is why Ramsey will never touch Clark from a credibility standpoint.
Darrentandy, I don't want you to think I am hating on Ramsey for throwing in his religious slant. I don't, though some do. Ramsey started with the late Larry Burkett and Crown Financial Ministries. Larry was a saint. I understand that Ramsey broke off from Crown when it was apparent he was focused on self-promotion, as opposed to Crown's focus on Biblical principle and praising God. Too bad, because no one has filled the hole since Larry Burkett passed away. It could have been Ramsey, but though he throws some religion into his show, his highest cause is still himself.
E
evnlee
Guest
Tom Riddle said:
Sorry Tom. He claims ' I have no paid personal endorsements'. That may be true, nobody is paying him ( like Ramsey ) to endorse products on his show. But then, he has on 'travel agency' guests and asks his audience to frequent thier businesses. He significantly uses only 'travelocity' ( as opposed to other web search engines) and has called for boycotts on Bank of America !
And why so silent on the reason he will call out everyobody but his own employer? C'mon, man. Don't help make the kool aid while your drinking it
[Darrentandy, I don't want you to think I am hating on Ramsey for throwing in his religious slant. I don't, though some do. Ramsey started with the late Larry Burkett and Crown Financial Ministries. Larry was a saint. I understand that Ramsey broke off from Crown when it was apparent he was focused on self-promotion, as opposed to Crown's focus on Biblical principle and praising God. Too bad, because no one has filled the hole since Larry Burkett passed away. It could have been Ramsey, but though he throws some religion into his show, his highest cause is still himself.
[/quote]
This statement is just plain false. While Dave Ramsey certainly would admit to gleaning some of his advice and ideology from Larry Burkett, a man he respected immensely, he absolutely never worked for Crown or Burkett in any capacity.
[/quote]
This statement is just plain false. While Dave Ramsey certainly would admit to gleaning some of his advice and ideology from Larry Burkett, a man he respected immensely, he absolutely never worked for Crown or Burkett in any capacity.
Talk Daddy is right...Ramsey Started in Nashville on WTN 99.7 when it was about bankrupt. If I remember correctly he and a local investment guy did the show for trade not taking a salary from the station. Before doing the show I think Dave was in real estate.
On comparing the two it's tough. While their shows are somewhat similar in nature they are also very different.
Clark is there to help you get a good deal on a flight and warn you about a choking hazard on a Fischer Price toy. Dave is there to try to give people a game plan for their finances.
So for me personally it's tough to have a favorite...though I will have to say that I can listen to Dave for longer stretches than Clark. His callers tend to be more interesting. You don't get many gambling addicts or troubled marriages on Clark's show.
it will be interesting to see how Ramsey does against Clark in his home market. Obviously he will never get close to Clark's numbers on WSB but will he pull anything from him during their head to head time? I doubt Clark will feel it.
On comparing the two it's tough. While their shows are somewhat similar in nature they are also very different.
Clark is there to help you get a good deal on a flight and warn you about a choking hazard on a Fischer Price toy. Dave is there to try to give people a game plan for their finances.
So for me personally it's tough to have a favorite...though I will have to say that I can listen to Dave for longer stretches than Clark. His callers tend to be more interesting. You don't get many gambling addicts or troubled marriages on Clark's show.
it will be interesting to see how Ramsey does against Clark in his home market. Obviously he will never get close to Clark's numbers on WSB but will he pull anything from him during their head to head time? I doubt Clark will feel it.
Nah, Clark won't feel any impact from Dave at all on his home turf. I'm not so sure how well dave will do in Atlanta.
G
G
I'm reviving this topic as it appears Dave is taking a commanding lead over Clark in this arena. Dave appears to be adding affiliates, and is now seen on Fox Business Channel. I presume Clark is still running for Mayor of Atlanta, which may explain his relative stagnation.
Any updated thoughts from the peanut gallery on these two? Likes or dislikes?
G
Any updated thoughts from the peanut gallery on these two? Likes or dislikes?
G
D
del_griffith
Guest
In terms of affiliates, it does appear that Ramsey is ahead.
One thing to remember is it appears Clear Channel is sucking him up on their second and third tier stations to keep him out of reach of someone who may want to become a player with his show. They park other shows too. Dave is on very few first tier talk stations.
Clark sometimes comes off as being too geeky while Ramsey has enough of the angry white guy sound that makes talk radio click. And his callers stories are more compelling. So many are train wrecks and that it makes for good talk radio. They come to him admitting their shortcomings and he's becomes the stern and sometimes caring father figure.
I get more information from Clark. Dave has the, from a radio perspective, a more entertaining show.
One thing to remember is it appears Clear Channel is sucking him up on their second and third tier stations to keep him out of reach of someone who may want to become a player with his show. They park other shows too. Dave is on very few first tier talk stations.
Clark sometimes comes off as being too geeky while Ramsey has enough of the angry white guy sound that makes talk radio click. And his callers stories are more compelling. So many are train wrecks and that it makes for good talk radio. They come to him admitting their shortcomings and he's becomes the stern and sometimes caring father figure.
I get more information from Clark. Dave has the, from a radio perspective, a more entertaining show.
Clark talking about how to save money by using fewer ply toilet paper isn't too entertaining. And that voice. And having to talk to Jones to clear him.
I'm not a huge fan of Ramsey, but he is on stations like CC's KEX and KNRS, which are pretty decent stations. Yes, many of them are crap, but the station roster has definitely improved.
I'm not a huge fan of Ramsey, but he is on stations like CC's KEX and KNRS, which are pretty decent stations. Yes, many of them are crap, but the station roster has definitely improved.
I've listened to Clark Howard for ten years, and I hope to hell he runs for President. I got a free PC and free long distance back in 1998
from listening to him. He is truly on our side. Imagine, a man in the public spotlight who can't be bought. Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman
do great work, but Clark is God.
from listening to him. He is truly on our side. Imagine, a man in the public spotlight who can't be bought. Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman
do great work, but Clark is God.
Updates:
Clark now shows up on HLN, but that doesn't seem to help lagging radio ratings. Ramsey has hundreds more radio stations under his belt now, his own show on FBN, and is selling more books.
Earlier today, Clark lauded a man for emptying his 401k to pay off his mortgage. Dave would have argued against that. Also, Clark favors student loans for college, while Dave wants you to go to school debt free.
Similar messages, but different takes. So which one is right?
G
Clark now shows up on HLN, but that doesn't seem to help lagging radio ratings. Ramsey has hundreds more radio stations under his belt now, his own show on FBN, and is selling more books.
Earlier today, Clark lauded a man for emptying his 401k to pay off his mortgage. Dave would have argued against that. Also, Clark favors student loans for college, while Dave wants you to go to school debt free.
Similar messages, but different takes. So which one is right?
G
D
del_griffith
Guest
upstate29651 said:
I thought Dave's FBN show was cancelled a few years ago.
Which one is right? It depends on the situation.
As for the 401-k to pay off debt, Ramsey would ok it if it was to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure. Since I didn't hear the Clark call, I don't know the set up. I would be most interested if Clark advised the tax consequences.
As for school loans, IMHO, it really depends. If you're going to straddle yourself with school loans for a long term low paying position which puts you at a disadvantage to payback or the chances of you getting halfway through college and dropping out, then yes, I too am against school loans. But if it's medical school, then I might give a little grace. It would take forever to save for that, while after graduation the chances are pretty good that income would more than cover the payback requiremetn for a school loan.
What makes Clark Howard's show interesting is that he's up on so many different subjects, especially technology, where you can really learn something about cell phone services, cable TV alternatives, automotive breakthroughs, alarm systems, modular homes, etc. etc.
Ramsey, OTOH, does little more than beat the "debt free" drum non stop -- how often can you hear that same scenario before changing the station? Also Clark Howard doesn't "lecture" the way Ramsey does. I can't stand people who are too eager to tell others how to live their lives.
Ramsey, OTOH, does little more than beat the "debt free" drum non stop -- how often can you hear that same scenario before changing the station? Also Clark Howard doesn't "lecture" the way Ramsey does. I can't stand people who are too eager to tell others how to live their lives.
- Status