Phase 2

[radiogeek40208]

I very seriously doubt that Hispanic women 35-44 are listening to WGZB LOL.

W35 - W44]
AFR - WMJM
CAU - WAMZ
HPA - WGZB

you'd be suprised!

 

[kentuckymedia]

Corporate America is killing radio, not research. Research (by its name and its core value) is to ask the listeners what they want to hear, not ask a machine.

They spend thousands (i mean hundreds of thousands) knocking on doors, asking people at malls and calling people on the phone. This study concluded centered its research around nearly 50,000 individuals. Thats quite a bit and they lived within a 20 minute commute of downtown.

As for WGZB. Its Rhythmic and its not the greatest programmed Rhythmic station in town, however its programmed to the "mass" audience. Mainline knows its vulnerable to a point, but its very sturdy as a Rhythmic station, and as you can see nearly 80% of women in those categories also agree. So I would assume that RESEARCH once again knows what they are saying.

Now there are research companies. The more you pay, the better the results. Companies like Coleman, Sabo they are high end, high pay, high result companies. Places like Critical Mass by Clear Channel and the lady at the Hotel Room Lobby Phone...they are mediocre pay and will tell you what you want to hear.

 

[kentuckymedia]

To follow that up, Mainline doesnt play with Critical Mass by Clear Channel. No...they pay for their numbers, and they pay well. Try in the ballpark of $175,000. Coleman I persume

 

[WHOKILLEDRADIO]

Corporate America is killing radio, not research. Research (by its name and its core value) is to ask the listeners what they want to hear, not ask a machine.

Exaclty! They ask a handful of Toms, Dicks, Harrys, Janes, Juans, Leons and Shanequas and from that they take the highest average and say "this is what people want to hear." From that you get 200 song playlist. I took part once in a listener survey for WQMF and it was laughable. They got a bunch of QMF listeners in a room at the Holiday Inn and asked our opinions of the songs pumping from a pair of Pioneer speakers setup on a card table. Yes they played the classic rock standards that we all knew, loved and have grown tired but they threw in a few alt artist (at the time) to guage the crowd. Rather than play radio friendly stuff by people like Elvis Costello, The Clash etc they played stuff that no one (even though I liked it) would sit thru on the radio. Face it KYmedia, until programmers and owners are willing to take risk and ignor the norm, radio as I grew up with will fade away. WAKY is the only commercial station I know of balking at reseach and I think the proof is in the pudding (arbitron).

 

[hotpatrick2004]

I also took place for one of the research projects for qmf.It was back in december of 1996 at a holiday inn on fern valley for 50 bucks and asked us about lots of tunes. I also remember back in the early 90s qmf playing snippets of a song and you rate the song forget how but i remember that.I think qmf was doing it for the launch of what was to become wqnf 105.9 Q2. Rick jamie programmed Q2 for awhile and in 1998 he briefly programmed wlrs 102.3. I remember he having something to do with the research. Q2 best station for alt louisville ever had!!!

 

[radiorob2.0]

To follow that up, Mainline doesnt play with Critical Mass by Clear Channel. No...they pay for their numbers, and they pay well. Try in the ballpark of $175,000. Coleman I persume

Imagine if instead of research, you put that $175,000 in promotion. That much money can raise a lot of top of mind awareness.

 

[WHOKILLEDRADIO]

To follow that up, Mainline doesnt play with Critical Mass by Clear Channel. No...they pay for their numbers, and they pay well. Try in the ballpark of $175,000. Coleman I persume

Imagine if instead of research, you put that $175,000 in promotion. That much money can raise a lot of top of mind awareness.

B-I-N-G-O radiorob2.0

 

[hotpatrick2004]

But if a format is not working it won't work and all the promotion in the world can't change that!!!You would just be throwing good money after bad so i do think research has its place in the mcdonaldlization of radio today. So why not find whats working and whats thru research and that use combined with your own instinct about whatever market and then promote whats working and change whats not

 

[Future_Bob]

If I remember correctly, in 1996 WTFX was eating WQMF's lunch - even with an automated flanker (WQNF). The research for QMF (at that time) was being done by a local company...and, if "hotpatrick" and "whokilledradio" knew who the project was for, the results would be flawed.

I understand now, why our competition at the time wasn't that difficult to exploit.

Research is a tool, when used incorrectly, can give you an on-air product that will attract listeners. But would have greater ratings impact, if the right questions are asked.

There are a lot more media choices now - but, radio still reaches 93% of the American public every week.

 

[llama52]

This study concluded centered its research around nearly 50,000 individuals. Thats quite a bit and they lived within a 20 minute commute of downtown.

Are you saying the study included nearly 50000 participants?

Radio perceptual research projects (done over the phone) have samples of 350-600 depending on how complex the study is. And you've thrown around pricing info in some other posts that is a bit high (but there may be more to this than one study). A perceptual study with Coleman Research is likely 35-50K, again depending on complexity and sample size.

In the old days, a radio company might do one perceptual for each major station in a market, but nowadays, they do broader samples to cover multiple formats. There is a limit to how broad a study can be however. In this case, they might do one study for the urban stations and another for the pop/rock spectrum. Let's assume that Mainline has done two separate perceptuals in that fashion. That would add up to 75-100K.

They could also do music library tests as well, and they run 20-35K per station. That's how you could arrive at a 175K research investment.

 

[radiogeek40208]

The recent replies on this board about all the big things in 2008 that will happen have made me chuckle.. bottom line kiddos, formats will change in 2008 that's a given, but, Louisville radio sucks.. the market has for a while now... and until someone comes in with money to invest in Louisville, that's not going to change. And, Mainline isn't going to do that. Cox has been in Louisville for almost 15 years now, probably a little longer, remember when they owned WRKA and WRVI? Why would they start all of a sudden? They have decent stations now that make money cheap,why change that?

Louisville radio is behind.. jocks sound tired and bored.. stations are programmed bad...

WGZB wins by default.. Louisville's a county and urban town, look at any demo break down in ratings and you'll see that.

Then why do we have one urban, one urban a/c and one bad a/c?

Radio has been crappy in Louisville since the Clear Channel/Jacor merger in the late 90's, when Cox and Blue Chip ended up with stations they should have never have owned.. say what nasty things you want about Jacor but 'DJX sounded hot, WVEZ was alive and so was wSFR, both stations that are now boring.. anyone ready for another "50 Minute Music Hour", wait WSFR does one better "52 Minute Music Hour".. PUKE!

It makes me sick to know that I can drive a little over a hour west to Evansville, a market about 100 market points smaller mind you, and hear a live 24-7 A/C station, a CHR that puts 'DJX to shame! and a huge country battle with both stations actually winning? WHy do I drive to Lexington and hear a smiliar country battle?

But in Louisville I hear tired boring radio... blah... get your ipods and your XM kiddos... this town sucks!

Radio has been crappy in Louisville since the Clear Channel/Jacor merger in the late 90's, when Cox and Blue Chip ended up with stations they should have never have owned.. say what nasty things you want about Jacor but 'DJX sounded hot, WVEZ was alive and so was wSFR, both stations that are now boring.. anyone ready for another "50 Minute Music Hour", wait WSFR does one better "52 Minute Music Hour".. PUKE!

 

[radiogeek40208]

Got some information regarding the research study for Louisville you all might like to hear..

When it comes to metrics on the stations (what station owns what audience), the audience demographic for Louisville here is what came back -

AFR - African American
CAU - Caucasian
HPA - Hispanic

[W18 - W24]
AFR - WGZB
CAU - WDJX
HPA - WGZB

[W25 - W34]
AFR - WGZB
CAU - WDJX
HPA - WGZB

[W35 - W44]
AFR - WMJM
CAU - WAMZ
HPA - WGZB

[W45 - W54]
AFR - WMJM
CAU - WVEZ
HPA - WLUE

I really dont have a lot to go from, just a skim over the report. But what is standing out is that while Arbitron may speak differently, Research TELLS THE TRUTH. It gives you a much more accurate view of where your P1's want to be.

Basically, what this says is that WDJX owns Top 40, WGZB owns Rhythmic and WMJM owns Urban AC. Secondary images still show much of the same patterns.

Research is saying that the programming problem child happens to be WLRS. WXMA does well in billing and if anything, it just needs a minor tweak...but other than that, its a solid station. Maybe a little more exposure will help.

The format hole in Louisville might shock you, it then again may not. ALTERNATIVE AC. Which means a cross mix of 90's Alternative, Current Alternative and deep tracks from current popular artists. Not a straight up hardcore alternative, but a lighter and "free form" approach to ALTERNATIVE. Which makes it this format.

Alternative AC would be designed to uber serve the 25-44 Male with a strong 25-34 female following, taking them from Louie mostly. Playing artists that would include but not be limited to Vertical Horizon, Radiohead, Foo Fighters, Green Day, Dave Matthews Band, Collective Soul, Incubus, Nirvana, Maroon Five, Goo Goo Dolls, Blind Melon, Alice In Chains.

The station should be extremely active in targeted community events. Owning listener driven promotions, being the "indie" station in town and living the lifestyle to its fullest.

Here is the only problem. Signal. So while this is the format that Louisvillians (made that up) want, can they hear it?

Before all you board op's and radio has been's flock to kentuckymedia like he's the return of Christ, I might warn you of a few things..

First kentuckymedia posts the same crap across the Indiana and Ohio board...

Second, kentuckymedia let me remind you of a few select things...

1. Radio is a trust business, people with information and access to research studies like these are mostly gm's and operations managers.. when it's a cluster research project, sometimes station PD's don't even have access to it! (And I know for a fact you're not the GM or OM @ Main Line!)

2. People with access to such information are reminded this information is confidently... releasing such information can cause you to not only loose your job, but, also face the chance of being sued.

3. Real programmers and radio pro's don't post on this thing, especially this type of information.. REAL radio people don't have the time!

Main Line is obviously doing research in the Louisville market, they've already made their changes in Ohio.. but, I think kentuckymedia makes the crap up as he or she goes on...

So, kentuckymedia don't you have a station to "program" or "research" to review.. or what isn't it time to run the break on the ballgame you are board op'ing?

Bottom line.. dude GET A LIFE!

While I take most of the stuff kentuckymedia says as a crap shoot, he may have a bit of insight, but, again it's Louisville radio, like I posted earlier.. no matter Mainline does or changes it will still suck.. Louisville radio will always suck.. like I posted above, get your ipods and XM while Wal Mart has them on sale!

 

[hotpatrick2004]

I do agree louisville radio was much better in the 90s you had at least for me some liberal talk show hosts here. Everything was not syndicated and you had 105.9 Q2 and she 93.1 and you had hot 104.3 home of the new flava so no arguement here louisville radio was much better last millineum but whatcha gonna do???Maybe with more lpfm's coming that may help.Whenever i see a research project published on radio and records it says people want more variety and not the same artists over and over and deeper cuts but yet i do not here that in louisville very much. They seem to ignore the fact people do not want to here the same old same old. Unless louisville is happy with hotel california and stairway to heaven in there 52 minute music hours.
I would like to think that people in louisville demand more from there radio stations!!!

Maybe just maybe things will improve in 08 but if history is any judge radioville40208 will be right Hope not

 

[Craven707]

2008 will prove to be an interesting year, especially if people make the assumption that a male targeted alternative A/C is needed after looking at research numbers from females 18-54.

LOL. Couldn't have said it better, FB. ;D

You know, everybody thinks their city's radio sucks cause they hear it EVERY DAY!!! You get a false sense of radio in a different city when you roll through it for a couple of hours. Listen to city x's radio for a solid month and see if you don't start seeing patterns in their radio as well.

 

[radiogeek40208]

2008 will prove to be an interesting year, especially if people make the assumption that a male targeted alternative A/C is needed after looking at research numbers from females 18-54.

LOL. Couldn't have said it better, FB. ;D

You know, everybody thinks their city's radio sucks cause they hear it EVERY DAY!!! You get a false sense of radio in a different city when you roll through it for a couple of hours. Listen to city x's radio for a solid month and see if you don't start seeing patterns in their radio as well.

no "craven"... after living in Evansville, Lexington and 2 larger west coast cities, I can honestly say Louisville radio is pretty sucky!

 

[Future_Bob]

Louisville is a very good market for radio listeners, as well as a very competitive one for broadcasters.
Even an independent research co./consultant thinks so.

http://www.infinitedial.com/2007/11/the_ten_best_markets_for_radio_1.php


It perplexes me when someone says something "sucks" - without giving a reasonable explanation as to why they prefer one product/service over the other.

Media is undergoing a radical change at the moment, and it will continue. Which is ultimately good for listeners. I've heard "radio is dead" quite a few times (MTV, cassette walkman, CD's,) and each time - radio has evolved and adapted to meet those challenges for the ears of consumers.

 

[radioville]

Louisville is a very good market for radio listeners, as well as a very competitive one for broadcasters.
Even an independent research co./consultant thinks so.

http://www.infinitedial.com/2007/11/the_ten_best_markets_for_radio_1.php


It perplexes me when someone says something "sucks" - without giving a reasonable explanation as to why they prefer one product/service over the other.

Media is undergoing a radical change at the moment, and it will continue. Which is ultimately good for listeners. I've heard "radio is dead" quite a few times (MTV, cassette walkman, CD's,) and each time - radio has evolved and adapted to meet those challenges for the ears of consumers.

Are you the Future Bob from WSFR? If so, congrats on crushing WQMF in the ratings!

 

[radioville]

Are you the Future Bob from WSFR? If so, congrats on crushing WQMF in the ratings!

 

[hotpatrick2004]

Hey future bob radio lacks here i to have lived in other cities and louisville is reluctant to accept something different.don't say louie for they are no different alot of the same 80s old music you here over and over and over again!!! i think saying louisville is very good for the listener is quite the overstatement in this town!!!!I think louisville is a diverse city for radio but very stagnant that has always been its problem!!!For worse now then its ever been!!!And the article you cited i read it it is ones persons opinion. Yes we have wfpk and yes they are different but they are a non commercial station. Anytime this town has done something worth listening to they f it up aka Q2 a great alt station aside from the voice tracking gone and she 93.1 gone and the liberal talk we use to have gone. All this syndicated crap i know its much cheaper but the ville likes its own issues to talk about the smoking ban the goth couple on amazing race etc...I do not wish to be totally negative we do have some good things at least i like detour the alt music show on the fox. The newly added indie rock show at midnights on sundays on the fox. Some good local mornings shows lambert and lindsey and peter b(yes i know it will be ending soon)and kelly k and at night ben davis on djx and mike shannon in the afternoon drive so these are some positive things for me.I remember once on qmf when they carried rockline and melisa etheridge was the guest this was yrs ago and qmf did not carry the show for some reason. and the classic rockers should start playing new music from classic rock artist it is crap that you do not play the new springsteen on qmf or sfr or the new who that came out 2 years ago or so why is that???

Face it louisville radio needs a extreme makeover!!!

 

[Future_Bob]

Thanks radioville - It's a bittersweet victory, with Chris being replaced in afternoon drive. He's a talented individual and I'm hoping he will turn up somewhere soon.

I disagree with hotpatrick2004 about Louisville listeners accepting something different, they accept it - but don't always embrace it. Radio stations are here to garner the largest audience in their target demographic. WQNF was not a very well run alt station, it lead to attrition in ratings for WQMF in something the programmer reffered to as the "windsheld wiper effect" - playing some new alt music with classic rock (in effect, overlapping the two radio stations.)

I thought 93.1 was an interesting station, but it failed to garner ratings (= revenue) because it was an semi-automated flanker aimed to keep the ratings lower on 102.3, 103.9 (hot a/c at the time) and 106.9.

At WSFR, we have exposed new material from classic rock artists on our website and through CD giveaways to our listeners.

I am pleased that everyone on this board is so passionate about what is on the radio in Louisville, and pay so much attention to what's happening. That in itself is a catalyst for change, which is always positive.