PITTSBURGH ARBITRON RATINGS: JANUARY 2011

[71dude]

Did they finally give up on "Baby Come Back" and "Still the One"?

 

[cingram]

Here's the situation, folks. Radio stations program to groups, not to individuals. If you spend a lot of
time with any one radio station, the repetition will get to you. Radio isn't mass customizable like your
iPod or Pandora or Slacker, where you can program only the songs you know and like, and specifically
to your tastes. With radio, what you hear is what you get. And that is why you'll likely keep hearing
"Piano Man," "Baby Come Back," and "Still The One" until the damn cows come home.

C.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

I don't disagree that if you listen to any one station the repetition will get to you, my argument is that there are a handful of songs that tend to show up on too many stations playlists and most of those songs are far from current. In fact one of the problems with Pittsburgh radio is that save for KISS, I would be hard pressed to find a station in Pittsburgh that isn't muddled in music that is 20+ years old, including the alleged alternative station which still views artists like Pearl Jam as cutting edge. Pittsburgh radio suffers from the old saying Mark Twain once made of Cincinnati when he said that when the end of the world comes he wanted to be in Cincinnati, because things happen 20 years later there. Things tend to happen 20 years after the fact in Pittsburgh radio as well. What sends me running for Pandora more than anything is simply a desire to hear something that was written after I was legally able to drink.

 

[Boss Radio]

Here's the situation, folks. Radio stations program to groups, not to individuals. If you spend a lot of
time with any one radio station, the repetition will get to you. Radio isn't mass customizable like your
iPod or Pandora or Slacker, where you can program only the songs you know and like, and specifically
to your tastes. With radio, what you hear is what you get. And that is why you'll likely keep hearing
"Piano Man," "Baby Come Back," and "Still The One" until the damn cows come home.

C.

Although if 3WS continues to drop, perhaps they'll rethink that? Nothing gets a station's attention like declining ratings and revenue.

 

[Boss Radio]

I don't disagree that if you listen to any one station the repetition will get to you, my argument is that there are a handful of songs that tend to show up on too many stations playlists and most of those songs are far from current. In fact one of the problems with Pittsburgh radio is that save for KISS, I would be hard pressed to find a station in Pittsburgh that isn't muddled in music that is 20+ years old, including the alleged alternative station which still views artists like Pearl Jam as cutting edge. Pittsburgh radio suffers from the old saying Mark Twain once made of Cincinnati when he said that when the end of the world comes he wanted to be in Cincinnati, because things happen 20 years later there. Things tend to happen 20 years after the fact in Pittsburgh radio as well. What sends me running for Pandora more than anything is simply a desire to hear something that was written after I was legally able to drink.

There are a lot of people in other markets who say the same thing about their local radio. People constantly complain about all the Skynyrd and other tired things on WDVE. Yet they're No. 1 in ratings, killing in revenue. So what's their incentive to change?

 

[Parttimer]

I don't disagree that if you listen to any one station the repetition will get to you, my argument is that there are a handful of songs that tend to show up on too many stations playlists and most of those songs are far from current. In fact one of the problems with Pittsburgh radio is that save for KISS, I would be hard pressed to find a station in Pittsburgh that isn't muddled in music that is 20+ years old, including the alleged alternative station which still views artists like Pearl Jam as cutting edge.

People who post on this board have different opinions about radio than just about everyone else in the world. For the most part, it is still true that when people turn on the radio, they want to hear a song they know, and if they don't know the song they change the station.

There are a few formats out there that have at least gotten out of the box a little. BOB-FM here, the "Jack" stations in other markets as well, at least have figured out that people may have a tolerance for a wider variety of styles and genres on one station than the ultra-reaserched methodology from the 80's led everyone to believe.

Pittsburgh radio suffers from the old saying Mark Twain once made of Cincinnati when he said that when the end of the world comes he wanted to be in Cincinnati, because things happen 20 years later there. Things tend to happen 20 years after the fact in Pittsburgh radio as well. What sends me running for Pandora more than anything is simply a desire to hear something that was written after I was legally able to drink.

Boss is right, it's the same everywhere. But with all the competition for new digital platforms, radio may be at a turning point as far as variety is concerned. It will be interesting to see. But even if that becomes an industry trend, look for it to happen last at Clear Channel, because it would take a change in corporate culture, and they have no wiggle room to mess with stations that are making money.

 

[db59]

People who post on this board have different opinions about radio than just about everyone else in the world. For the most part, it is still true that when people turn on the radio, they want to hear a song they know, and if they don't know the song they change the station.

Concerning 3WS; it's not about them playing songs people don't know. I believe most 3WS listeners are familiar with just about anything they play. It's just that I want to hear a better variety of songs than they play now. I can enjoy anything from the mid '50's through the early '80's, and maybe that is too wide of a gap for some people, it's fine for me. I know I'm dreaming to ever think I could find a station that would have a format that would encompass all those years, but I would love it. All I know is that I hear the same songs just played and replayed each and every day (anyone else sick to death of "Renegade" or "Carry On Wayward Son")?? Their best format right now is the 3 hours given to the Sunday Night Diner, as that is for the music from 1955-1970. It used to be music from 1955-1963, but now it's anything from the 1960's. I bet even the late R.D. Summers would turn over in his grave if he heard them playing British Invasion songs on the Diner rather than during the week.

 

[corporateradiosucks]

I think even the people who DO want to hear songs they know (and who regard music as background, i.e. are completely unpassionate about it) are ready to burn Piano Man at the stake at this point. It's THAT bad.

Yes, DVE plays the same stuff over and over, but I do have to say, there are times when its familiarity is comforting. They don't just play the same music, they have the same on air personalities who've been there forever. Sometimes my brain hurts and it's nice to just hear Sean McDowell rattling on about whatever pops into his head. If he plays Sweet Emotion afterwards, well, I can deal with it. 3WS, on the other hand, is playing the same old stuff, but tossing the personalities people were familiar with over the side for a bunch of randoms.

As far as the X, until they start making a concerted effort to appeal to a less Neanderthal audience (and call me crazy but I don't think carrying hockey is helping that - not that hockey fans are all Neanderthals, but carrying sports doesn't usually help you skew more female or open-minded) they're going to be playing the same old Pearl Jam songs till doomsday.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Corporate- Very interesting point about The X and hockey. I'm a big hockey fan, but I think you may be on to something there.

And folks, no. There is no way to explain the oversaturation of "Piano Man" on the airwaves to the extent it has been. I don't care if there is some sort of conspiracy where every program director who overplays it gets a clone of Christie Brinkley to be his mistress, there is no excuse or reason for it to be played this much.

 

[Parttimer]

3WS probably only plays 300 songs, so that means every song in their library plays every day. Piano Man just happens to be the one you notice.

 

[cingram]

There is no way to explain the oversaturation of "Piano Man" on the airwaves to the extent it has been. I don't care if there is some sort of conspiracy where every program director who overplays it gets a clone of Christie Brinkley to be his mistress, there is no excuse or reason for it to be played this much.

It's popular. It's very popular. Most importantly, it's very popular with the demographic that appeals most to
advertisers.

Radio programs to groups, not to individuals.

Being in Top 40 radio for more than 20 years pretty much inured me to repetition. (On the other hand, I think
I've reached my lifedose of John Cougar Mellencamp, so I do understand the frustration level.)

C.

 

[Raymond]

3WS probably only plays 300 songs, so that means every song in their library plays every day. Piano Man just happens to be the one you notice.

Can't they just yank it off the playlist? Really, who's going to miss it? Throw in something else by Billy that was a hit. I think after so many repetitions, something else needs to be thrown in to freshen things up.

Sometimes my brain hurts and it's nice to just hear Sean McDowell rattling on about whatever pops into his head. If he plays Sweet Emotion afterwards, well, I can deal with it. 3WS, on the other hand, is playing the same old stuff, but tossing the personalities people were familiar with over the side for a bunch of randoms.

Corporate, I agree! Sean identifies with his audience, and he also is true to who he is...a rock jock who loves Pittsburgh. I hope they leave him alone and do not put strains on him. He's the best thing on DVE. As for 3ws, well, they have no personality now and I think that's how they want it.

It used to be music from 1955-1963, but now it's anything from the 1960's. I bet even the late R.D. Summers would turn over in his grave if he heard them playing British Invasion songs on the Diner rather than during the week.

I think you are right! We had a few discussions on music (he did a few remote broacasts for me) and he would definitely be spinning in his grave hearing the songs that are now playing on the Diner.

 

[pman44]

Re: Sean McDowell

Ironically there is a very funny bit of him at a roast for jimmy krenn last year or the year before lamenting having to play the same exact songs for 20 years. It was available on Comcast on-demand, not sure if anyone you tubed it.

 

[Pratte4Life]

Part- I don't listen to 3WS, so I don't notice "Piano Man" on the airwaves there.

If you go back to my original posts, I still wonder what the hell it was doing on the old playlist of WRRK. Not BOB, but rock WRRK.

When "Piano Man" is on a classic rock station, it's overplayed. IT'S NOT EVEN A ROCK SONG!!!!! It might as well be on the old WAMO or The X, because it fits just as well.

 

[db59]

If anyone cares, 3WS has "Piano Man" playing as we speak. Unfortunately, it's the shorter version this time, so we can't hear about "talking with Davy, who's still in the navy".

 

[71dude]

"Still the One" followed 13 minutes later - that answers my question... :

 

[corporateradiosucks]

If you go back to my original posts, I still wonder what the hell it was doing on the old playlist of WRRK. Not BOB, but rock WRRK.

When "Piano Man" is on a classic rock station, it's overplayed. IT'S NOT EVEN A ROCK SONG!!!!! It might as well be on the old WAMO or The X, because it fits just as well.

Ehhh, you could say the same about Scenes from an Italian Restaurant or Captain Jack or The Stranger. The problem with Billy is as he goes on and on and gets wussier it affects how people look at his early catalog. Ditto Elton John. Ditto trying to figure out where the Beatles line of demarcation is...i.e. on which album did they get "rock" enough to play on a rock station.

 

[fromtheinsideout]

I don't disagree that if you listen to any one station the repetition will get to you, my argument is that there are a handful of songs that tend to show up on too many stations playlists and most of those songs are far from current. In fact one of the problems with Pittsburgh radio is that save for KISS, I would be hard pressed to find a station in Pittsburgh that isn't muddled in music that is 20+ years old, including the alleged alternative station which still views artists like Pearl Jam as cutting edge. Pittsburgh radio suffers from the old saying Mark Twain once made of Cincinnati when he said that when the end of the world comes he wanted to be in Cincinnati, because things happen 20 years later there. Things tend to happen 20 years after the fact in Pittsburgh radio as well. What sends me running for Pandora more than anything is simply a desire to hear something that was written after I was legally able to drink.

There are a lot of people in other markets who say the same thing about their local radio. People constantly complain about all the Skynyrd and other tired things on WDVE. Yet they're No. 1 in ratings, killing in revenue. So what's their incentive to change?

The local incentive to change their practices? Not much really, because they own enough signals to protect themselves from any real competition. The national incentive to change? They have a $4.5 billion debt payment coming due in 2014 and the idea of owning 7 stations to protect one or two may not become all that economically viable over the long term.

 

[Parttimer]

If you go back to my original posts, I still wonder what the hell it was doing on the old playlist of WRRK. Not BOB, but rock WRRK.

When "Piano Man" is on a classic rock station, it's overplayed. IT'S NOT EVEN A ROCK SONG!!!!! It might as well be on the old WAMO or The X, because it fits just as well.

Ehhh, you could say the same about Scenes from an Italian Restaurant or Captain Jack or The Stranger. The problem with Billy is as he goes on and on and gets wussier it affects how people look at his early catalog. Ditto Elton John. Ditto trying to figure out where the Beatles line of demarcation is...i.e. on which album did they get "rock" enough to play on a rock station.

But Piano Man was the only one of those that was a big hit single if I recall correctly. The other songs were mostly played on AOR stations.

If you were to go back and listen to airchecks from that era there was a MUCH wider variety of types of music on AOR formats. Think Billy Joel, Chicago, Santana, the various solo Beatles, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac... none of that stuff would be played on rock stations today. The Eagles have to market themselves to country radio and today's Fleetwood Mac is Lady Antebellum. DVE played Stevie Wonder. Keyboards no longer exist in rock music for the most part either (alternative and AAA, yes, but all of that music was under one umbrella in the AOR days).

 

[Pratte4Life]

See Part, a lot of what you speak of is before my time. And yes, I think a classic rocker, be it WDVE, the old WRRK, or the "Pratte4Life Dream Station" (WPDS?) has evolved from many of the bands you've mentioned. Chicago, for instance.

My criteria for a playlist on a rock station- "Is it hard? Is it fast?" If the answer to both questions is yes, then it belongs on a rock station.

Really, it shouldn't be any more complicated than that.