possible cbs-fm flip

[OldiesCat]

For the record, I'd be in favor of CBS flipping 101.1 back to what today's Oldies are (similar to KRTH and WRBQ) but not back to the "golden oldies" that includes much before 1967- if they do that, it's just a temporary move to gain positive P.R. and I believe Dan Mason is a lot sharper than that (and his predecessors LOL). I said all along that while I understood WHY they did it in the first place, they totally and 100% botched the move to Jack on every possible front. It's been an unmistakable disaster from day one. They'd have been better off sticking with the general Oldies format, nuking Micky freakin' Dolenz and updating the format's target audience so they'd be viable from a revenue standpoint.

That being said, I'd also be very, very careful what fringe programming I'd air. I know, all the radio geeks & freaks want all the Doo-Wop shop crap back and a bunch of pre-Beatles features. Again- forget it. Why return to the days when demos were aging fast and billing was declining faster. "Yeah, but what would it hurt to just put a few hours of this & that..."? will be the next cry, but if I want my station to appeal to 40-somethings at all, I lose the pre-1967 image and feel...and music AND jocks. Love 'em to death, but the Cousin' Brucie and Harry Harrison glory days are o-v-e-r.

 

[leethalweapon]

It was funny that the opening line in one article I read says "It's back to the future for WCBS". As for JACK, I listen to a few different CBS owned JACK stations, and NY was one of the worst. It just didn't reflect NY.

I have a few questions about WCBS mark 2. What is the expected shelf life of this format? Can anyone imagine this format 10 years from now? How long will CBS management give it before they start asking hard questions? Is the revenue be there for the format?

 

[OldiesCat]

It was funny that the opening line in one article I read says "It's back to the future for WCBS". As for JACK, I listen to a few different CBS owned JACK stations, and NY was one of the worst. It just didn't reflect NY.

I have a few questions about WCBS mark 2. What is the expected shelf life of this format? Can anyone imagine this format 10 years from now? How long will CBS management give it before they start asking hard questions? Is the revenue be there for the format?

Who knows the shelf life of any terrestrial format, really? In 10 years I expect most radio programming to be delivered by broadband, anyway.

Revenue? I imagine if they didn't see big upside in revenue they'd never make the move back to some form of Oldies. Dan Mason is a sharp guy and he's not doing this for noble or nostalgic reasons or to satisfy a couple of dozen radio board posters who've been crying about the demise of CBS-FM for 2 years. He'll make the move if it makes sound business sense (which would be the only way I would do it).

 

[christophe]

Stations make their money M-F between 5am and 7pm. Weekend specialty shows that foster good PR (and might make a little $$) are harmless. God knows a little good PR from CBS could go a long way. Besides, if such programs are tuneouts, where else are they gonna go? The 55+ plus set still WANTS to use radio, but there's nothing there for them (satrad don't count). Regardless of what agencies think, there's untapped ratings and revenue there. Plus, everything I've read about PPM suggests that a return to oldies is a potential cume goldmine. And seriously, who is going to miss Jack? PLJ's P2's?

 

[4dude]

Yes!

Report: WCBS-FM going back to oldies

Im glad they finally saw the errors in thier ways! (I knew there was a reason they kept this format going all along )

 

[UncleBozzle]

Might this move be an attempt to beat WPLJ to the punch? I would guess this means if Jack goes away WPLJ can pick up the eclectic variety format. Perhaps WPLJ could be the 80's and 90's version of the new CBS-FM. Now everyone can have a larger share of the pie so to speak.

 

[murphmac]

By saying "Do op" crap you are putting your personal "spin" on the kind of oldies that will play at CBS FM. You are doing what has killed radio - cut the piece of the pie so small that there is no variety or diversity in the music. With that being said, I think CBS should play all sixties, seventies and eighties. They should bring back the "Do-op" shop on a weekend feature for those who like that stuff. The sixties was a great, diverse decade for music, why "chop it up?"

Either play oldies or don't.

murphmac

 

[UncleBozzle]

Murphmac sums it up well. DooWop is a part of the "oldies" or "classic hits" genre and it does deserve a place on this new station. It's absurd to say that just because a person doesn't come from that era they don't like this style of music. At minimum it deserves a place on the weekend and could really keep things "fresh". Just my two cents of course.

 

[The Listener]

I wonder what effect 'CBS-FM's return as a real radio station will have on Mark Simone's Saturday Night Oldies on WABC. I'd hate to see his show canceled.

 

[pqgeorge]

I wonder what effect 'CBS-FM's return as a real radio station will have on Mark Simone's Saturday Night Oldies on WABC. I'd hate to see his show canceled.

I see no reason why "SNO" would have to change. No doubt, 'CBS-FM will be strictly formatted to oldies format. But, the nice thing about Mark's show on WABC is that it is very interactive with the audience. For not only do they play the music, they give the audience a chance to talk about the music and the artists that made the music. Also, for those of us who grew up listening to WABC, there is something special about hearing all this on a 50,000 watt blowtorch station. Oldies on 'CBS-FM and SNO on WABC make for a very winning combination. I'll still be ready for my Saturday night fix with SNO on WABC!

 

[fang39]

Murphmac sums it up well. DooWop is a part of the "oldies" or "classic hits" genre and it does deserve a place on this new station. It's absurd to say that just because a person doesn't come from that era they don't like this style of music. At minimum it deserves a place on the weekend and could really keep things "fresh". Just my two cents of course.

Like a mentioned in a previous post, "Hertiage" programs like "Cousin Brucie's Saturday Night Dance Party","Norm N. Nite Live from the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame" and "Don K. Reed's Doo-Wopp Shoppe" should be included in their weekend programming to honor the station's legacy and its music.

I honestly have never understood the insistence on the part of programmers to limit playlists to the standard of 200-400 "well tested" songs. I've taken part in several "music tests" and have found it comical that broadcasting entities would actually spend big bucks to find out what they already know. "Which song do you like better? This one or THIS one? Now, this one or THIS one?" C'mon! That's one of the primary reasons the format died in the first place!

Give your listeners a little credit. They're not the mindless dolts that programmers think, who are satisfied listening to the same songs played over and over again. They crave true variety. Especially in this era of constant communication, via cell phones, e-mail and IM, you'll be sure to know instantly if you played a tune that your audience loved or hated. It's the ol' "make it or break it" routine...and even it it "sucks", your listeners will enjoy putting their personal stamp on it to make sure it goes away and never comes back!

There's so much great music from the "Classic Hits" era that will never see the light of day because of the narrowmindedness of market researchers and programmers alike. Tunes that have an "oh wow" factor when the listeners hear something they haven't heard for years and years. As a lifelong radio listener, I've always enjoyed hearing the occasional "nugget" or "one-hit wonder" that isn't part of the regular daily rotation. That's why "fringe" programs like the ones mentioned above would be welcome additions to the proposed format!

 

[davideduardo]

I honestly have never understood the insistence on the part of programmers to limit playlists to the standard of 200-400 "well tested" songs. I've taken part in several "music tests" and have found it comical that broadcasting entities would actually spend big bucks to find out what they already know. "Which song do you like better? This one or THIS one? Now, this one or THIS one?" C'mon! That's one of the primary reasons the format died in the first place!

That is not how songs are tested, to begin with...

 

[disney fanatic]

That is great news. CBS-FM is coming back to oldies about a week or two. I remember WBPM dropped oldies on "Cool 92.9" at the end of January in favor of "Classic Hits 92.9", I hope CBS-FM will become a classic hits station like the way WBPM in the Hudson Valley and KFRC in San Francisco did. I hope this will be a surprise. "Jack" did well in Los Angeles, but New York does not. "Jack" did terrible in the ratings for the last 2 years since CBS-FM flipped back on June 3rd, 2005. It was a terrible start, they did not do a great job for this format.

Guess what, today is the 35th anniversary of CBS-FM when it was and it will now stands as an oldies station. I hope it's gonna come back like the way WWKB in Buffalo did back in 2003 when it flipped to oldies. We got a new slogan "CBS-FM 101.1. Celebrating 35 years as New York's Oldies Station!"

 

[fang39]

I honestly have never understood the insistence on the part of programmers to limit playlists to the standard of 200-400 "well tested" songs. I've taken part in several "music tests" and have found it comical that broadcasting entities would actually spend big bucks to find out what they already know. "Which song do you like better? This one or THIS one? Now, this one or THIS one?" C'mon! That's one of the primary reasons the format died in the first place!

That is not how songs are tested, to begin with...

Right...of course not. The fact remains, that listeners are easily bored with the same songs played ad nauseum. Expand the playlist and include the previously mentioned "fringe" programming to bring an even wider listening audience into the fold. After 2+ years of "Jack," it's mediocre ratings and revenues, it couldn't possibly get any worse (although I suspect you'll soon tell us that it will!).

 

[davideduardo]

Right...of course not.

It's not, as a matter of fact. What gave you the idea that songs were tested by a "better - worse" comparison with other songs?

The fact remains, that listeners are easily bored with the same songs played ad nauseum.

Actually, this is very untrue. Listeners want to hear their favorite songs, not ones they do not like.

Expand the playlist and include the previously mentioned "fringe" programming to bring an even wider listening audience into the fold.

The opposite happens. At a classic rock station I worked with a few years ago, we had a tested list of about 500 songs (outside of specialty shows, unpluggeds, etc) and a 20 share. Another station changed format, playing "our" music 1800 songs deep. After about 9 months, they had a 1.8 and we still had a 20. Talking to listeners, the uniform answer was "they play a lot of songs I don't want to hear."

After 2+ years of "Jack," it's mediocre ratings and revenues, it couldn't possibly get any worse (although I suspect you'll soon tell us that it will!).

So you want to exchange 1000 song playlists on Jack for a 500 song list on an oldies staiton. That is contradictory.

 

[ceaser]

It's not the quantity,it's the quality.A skin tight playlist will bore your listeners to no end.Remember you have to cater to the needs of the new york market.Cookie cutter radio stations will not work in new york city.That's partly the reason for the change to begin with.

 

[CHRles]

Might this move be an attempt to beat WPLJ to the punch? I would guess this means if Jack goes away WPLJ can pick up the eclectic variety format. Perhaps WPLJ could be the 80's and 90's version of the new CBS-FM. Now everyone can have a larger share of the pie so to speak.

If CBS goes Oldies, I can see PLJ moving towards a Current-friendly Jack FM station. Ben FM in Philadelphia does just that:
http://www.mediabase.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=WBEN-FM

 

[actioncentral]

It's 12:40 PM ET on 7/7/07 and CBS-owned 1010 WINS's lead story on its website
is the WCBS-FM flip rumor. http://www.1010wins.com
The entire story is at http://www.1010wins.com/pages/655949.php?contentType=4&contentId=669915
I don't see any mention of the flip rumor on WCBS-880's website at
http://www.wcbs880.com
action central

 

[adma]

That being said, I'd also be very, very careful what fringe programming I'd air. I know, all the radio geeks & freaks want all the Doo-Wop shop crap back and a bunch of pre-Beatles features. Again- forget it. Why return to the days when demos were aging fast and billing was declining faster. "Yeah, but what would it hurt to just put a few hours of this & that..."? will be the next cry, but if I want my station to appeal to 40-somethings at all, I lose the pre-1967 image and feel...and music AND jocks. Love 'em to death, but the Cousin' Brucie and Harry Harrison glory days are o-v-e-r.

But if that's the case, then the oldies are o-v-e-r as well--and blame technological and cultural change for that, the kind that doesn't work on the medium's behalf.

Face it; if you're under 50, you grew up and were conditioned within an era when there was a much more sophisticated mass sensitivity to the raw presence of "musical history", including that which dates before you were born and/or "conscious". A lot of radio apologists who offer the "chronological evolution" argument seem rather gallingly oblivious to that point--in fact, the actual generation gap might not be according to the musical date or style, but according to the means and culture of consumption.

If you (or I) grew up in an era when music from before we were born was square, maaaan, that model is as simplistic and obsolete as the kind of casual racism or homophobia which may also have marked that era. And if our own youth hold that attitude today, that may be symptomatic of a deeper individual sickness, either on their or their guardians' part.

Think of the parallel with out cities--at some point, "progress" came to be associated not merely with building new buildings, but with saving old buildings. And what do you find in a lot of these "old building" districts? Ad-buyer attractive youth demos with their iPods.

Now, if (if!) the young want "the oldies" at all, they'd probably indeed rather it be a 50s-to-70s "AM Top 40 era" based format, because it's more "honest". Going post-1980 is a mark of desperation, because you're tilting against an era of MTV and fragmentation. In practice, you're pitching to either the stupidest 40somethings, or reflecting an unsophisticated geezer's notion of what under-50 is all about--but maybe because of the medium we're dealing with, there's little choice. Heck, think of how Sunday-painter culturally imbecilic a lot of those dentist's board critiques of Jack-FM were--with friends like that, oldies doesn't need enemies.

Sure, maybe the pre-67 Harry/Brucie image and feel is over; but under the circumstances, someone more "contemporary" like Scott Shannon's no substitute. In this case, a hypothetical oldies "evolution" might involve more of a Bob Dylan/Little Steven-compatible approach, if not quite going *that* far...

 

[fang39]

Right...of course not.

It's not, as a matter of fact. What gave you the idea that songs were tested by a "better - worse" comparison with other songs?

I've participated in "music research testing" as done by radio stations in my local market (#'s 1 & 18, respectively). And when you come right down to it, that's exactly what it is because the diagnostics indicate if song A "tested" better than song B, then song B should not be played.

The fact remains, that listeners are easily bored with the same songs played ad nauseum.

Actually, this is very untrue. Listeners want to hear their favorite songs, not ones they do not like.

Not when they're played over and over until burnt to a crisp. Did we not learn anything from the failed Jammin' format?

Expand the playlist and include the previously mentioned "fringe" programming to bring an even wider listening audience into the fold.

The opposite happens. At a classic rock station I worked with a few years ago, we had a tested list of about 500 songs (outside of specialty shows, unpluggeds, etc) and a 20 share. Another station changed format, playing "our" music 1800 songs deep. After about 9 months, they had a 1.8 and we still had a 20. Talking to listeners, the uniform answer was "they play a lot of songs I don't want to hear."

OH, PUH-LEEESE! When Joe McCoy programmed WCBS-FM to their greatest success in the 1980's, they went with a playlist of 1200 songs. Due to pressure from consultants and the corporate suits, the playlist was trimmed, cut, slashed and chopped to around 400 songs by the time Joe stepped down in 2003.

After 2+ years of "Jack," it's mediocre ratings and revenues, it couldn't possibly get any worse (although I suspect you'll soon tell us that it will!).

So you want to exchange 1000 song playlists on Jack for a 500 song list on an oldies staiton. That is contradictory.

Why does it have to be a 500 song playlist? When was there a law passed stating that this is mandatory?