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PPM vs Diary markets

So in diary markets stations need to remember to say their name more often so that people know who they are when they write it down?
Vs PPM it just uploads data?
Having said that from what I can see getting both Atlantic City and Philadelphia, (WMGM, WFPG, and at times WIBG-FM), stations mention their name and branding in both markets.
I'm comparing the two as Atlantic city is diary and Philly is PPM.
I haven't heard a difference in the sound as far as the two AC stations (WBEB, WFPG.)
I mean yes the on-air processing is different, there are diferent DJs..., different jingles, different owners...)
But I had thought that I heard on these boards that markets that use PPM the stations themselves have a different sound to them than those using diary.
Thoughts?
John
 
DavidEduardo said:
It would be terrible, as they would have sheer numbers and no demographics with breaks on age, gender, ethnicity, education, income and area of residence.

The current system is more than adequate for what advertisers want and need, but is already more expensive than what radio wants to spend. There is no real need for a bigger sample, as the existing one is sufficient for what advertisers want.
Click to expand...
What is the current sample size of the PPM. How many people in a market have them.
 
Don CT said:
What is the current sample size of the PPM. How many people in a market have them.
Click to expand...
Depends on market size. The smallest PPM markets have about 1000 meters, New York has 4,400, LA has 2,700 and in the smallest, from about market rank 25 down, there are just under 1000 meters

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DavidEduardo said:
Depends on market size. The smallest PPM markets have about 1000 meters, New York has 4,400, LA has 2,700 and in the smallest, from about market rank 25 down, there are just under 1000 meters.
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How does that translate into listeners? NYC has over 12 million people. Seems like too small a sample size to know who is really there.
 
JH_Radio said:
So in diary markets stations need to remember to say their name more often so that people know who they are when they write it down?
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No, in all markets stations need to emphasize identity because listeners have to know where to return if they interrupt listening.
JH_Radio said:
Vs PPM it just uploads data?
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Identity is critical to repeat usage. The PPM revealed that even "all day" listeners did not listen continuously but, instead in many shorter instances interrupted by everything from taking the kids to the bus stop to going to the loading dock at work.
JH_Radio said:
Having said that from what I can see getting both Atlantic City and Philadelphia, (WMGM, WFPG, and at times WIBG-FM), stations mention their name and branding in both markets.
Click to expand...
And they all have to remind people what they are listeing to so that the listening is either remembered for the diary or kept in mind for return listening in the PPM.
JH_Radio said:
I'm comparing the two as Atlantic city is diary and Philly is PPM.
I haven't heard a difference in the sound as far as the two AC stations (WBEB, WFPG.)
Click to expand...
There is none for ratings crediting combined with listenere loyalty.
JH_Radio said:
But I had thought that I heard on these boards that markets that use PPM the stations themselves have a different sound to them than those using diary.
Click to expand...
They shouldn't.
 
Thanks David!
How does Neilson find listeners for PPM or diary ?
Do they change listeners each year, or after a certain amount of years?

Thanks again,
John
 
JH_Radio said:
Thanks David!
How does Neilson find listeners for PPM or diary ?
Click to expand...
They use proprietary phone lists as well as in-person residential recruiting.
JH_Radio said:
Do they change listeners each year, or after a certain amount of years?
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The PPM panel household is recruited for a 2 year period. If all family members do not comply, they can be removed. Or they can decide to drop out.
 
DavidEduardo said:
The PPM panel household is recruited for a 2 year period. If all family members do not comply, they can be removed. Or they can decide to drop out.
Click to expand...

I was not aware it was households.
SO everybody in the family needs to agree to participate, and does this just include AM/FM (both OTA and streams?)
 
And they find these people by calling random numbers (and hoping it's not marked as spam call), and in what other way? I'm not getting it.
 
There is another way to answer the original question you are asking. A station in a PPM market certainly can sound different than if it was in a PPM market. It will sound different because once we went to the actual direct measurement of listeners, certain formats were found to be really paper tigers. So your AAA formatted station in the diary market won't be AAA in a PPM market. It will be classic hits. 🤪
 
JH_Radio said:
I was not aware it was households.
SO everybody in the family needs to agree to participate, and does this just include AM/FM (both OTA and streams?)
Click to expand...
Every family member 6 and over has to participate, or the whole unit is discharged.

Measures station streams, AM, FM, HD, translators and satellite. Will soon measure all "audio" including independent streams, etc.
 
DavidEduardo said:
They use proprietary phone lists as well as in-person residential recruiting.

The PPM panel household is recruited for a 2 year period. If all family members do not comply, they can be removed. Or they can decide to drop out.
Click to expand...
I completely left out mailed recruiting. I believe, and will check, that this is used for diary markets. I got a recruit call in LA for a PPM market, which, of course, I refused due to "media affiliation". In Palm Springs, I have gotten mailed packets for both radio and TV, and both several times over 22 years of owning a home here.
 
The New Chico said:
There is another way to answer the original question you are asking. A station in a PPM market certainly can sound different than if it was in a PPM market. It will sound different because once we went to the actual direct measurement of listeners, certain formats were found to be really paper tigers. So your AAA formatted station in the diary market won't be AAA in a PPM market. It will be classic hits. 🤪
Click to expand...
And the Smooth Jazz format will be long gone.

The AAA may have moved below 92 on the dial.
 
JH_Radio said:
And they find these people by calling random numbers (and hoping it's not marked as spam call), and in what other way? I'm not getting it.
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Their system "knows" what numbers are commercial and which ones are in service. Nielsen has a division that creates phone lists. The phone is less effective now, because so many people have cellular phones with area codes that no longer represent where they live. And so few have landlines today.
 
TheBigA said:
Nope. I'm in a PPM market.
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Interesting. I have not been on one of the Nielsen committees for several years, and have not kept up with this. Am more concerned with the lack of proportionality than the recruit methods, so spend my time trying to figure out why LA, which is 90% Mexican or Mexican American, has a panel that is approaching 50% Central American. That's a dramatic failure, as the tastes in radio programming, as well as language usage and customs are as different as those between the UK and Jamaica.
 
David, I saw you said on another thread that the PPM measures what it hears.
How is this not misleading?
I could have a radio on in the car so low that the PPM could hear it and humans might not.
I'd think with writing it down that you actually have to pay more attention to who or what you're listening too.
Measuring all audio would be good, as Tidal, Apple Music, all these other things are a thing now.
Personally, I don't think measuring AM/FM/HD/Translator and satellite is enough.
Because we have all of these other ways to listen to music.
I'd think the only way to get even more accurit measurement is to measure it all.
I'm sure even us radio people don't just listen to traditional AM/FM media.
John
 
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