Sounds ok for the format stace, don't know about the general sound in New Zeeland but I miss a little bit hi-end for my flavor though.
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Processing clips
- Thread starter gtomas
- Start date
I
Info-warrior
Guest
A few more Ultramod observations
Removing the Compellor seems to open the sound up more at the expense of inconsistant levels from source to source.
The deviation does change from a cold start. Is this type of thing normal with processors? I could see a few kHz or so, but if left off overnight, it will over deviate by 10kHz as shown on the TX4's meter.
One final observation, stereo seperation doesn't seem as good as the TX4's built in generator. I ran program in one channel only and listened to the other and sure enough, not only is there more crosstalk, but it's rather distorted. I repeated the process with the other channel, and the results were the same. Kinda reminds me of the BA1404 based FM10A I built about 10 years ago.
Of course these results apply only to my Ultramod. Maybe I got a bad one.
After work, I'm going to check out the clip of the Unity 2000.
Removing the Compellor seems to open the sound up more at the expense of inconsistant levels from source to source.
The deviation does change from a cold start. Is this type of thing normal with processors? I could see a few kHz or so, but if left off overnight, it will over deviate by 10kHz as shown on the TX4's meter.
One final observation, stereo seperation doesn't seem as good as the TX4's built in generator. I ran program in one channel only and listened to the other and sure enough, not only is there more crosstalk, but it's rather distorted. I repeated the process with the other channel, and the results were the same. Kinda reminds me of the BA1404 based FM10A I built about 10 years ago.
Of course these results apply only to my Ultramod. Maybe I got a bad one.
After work, I'm going to check out the clip of the Unity 2000.
The Ultramod is not intended to stand alone.. no matter what the manual says
It is made to interface with the Hnat Hindes Tri Mazes, a wideband AGC/3 band compressor system.
The Ultramod is usually good enough to be driven to approx 12-15dB of g/r with a processor before it that will keep it there. The AGC in it is not good enough to be consistant. it is really a classical or fine arts processor and not meant for anything else when standing alone.
It is made to interface with the Hnat Hindes Tri Mazes, a wideband AGC/3 band compressor system.
The Ultramod is usually good enough to be driven to approx 12-15dB of g/r with a processor before it that will keep it there. The AGC in it is not good enough to be consistant. it is really a classical or fine arts processor and not meant for anything else when standing alone.
Info-warrior, would you be so kind to upload a few pics to the server of your ultramod? There aren't many good one's on the internet as far as I could see.
I
Info-warrior
Guest
The Unity clip doesn't sound bad for the music represented. The chimpmunking clip is funny. The station I used to work for has Nexgen (which replaced Wizard) and they get their news out of New York. There must have been some funky sample rate conversion going on because the news would start out fine then for the last thirty seconds or so, it would sound like someone switched a reel to reel tape machine from 7 1/2 ips to 3 3/4 ips.
I'll upload some pictures of the Ultramod, I just need to figure out who I could borrow a digital camera from since I don't own one.
I'll upload some pictures of the Ultramod, I just need to figure out who I could borrow a digital camera from since I don't own one.
I have a request for a processing clip...not sure if anyone else has asked about specific clips but I am hoping somebody might be able to help me out.
I'd really like to hear a clip of a station in the United States (or anywhere else that uses 75us pre-emphasis) playing a contemporary hit format, running an Optimod 8400 or 8500 barefoot.
I'd really like to hear a clip of a station in the United States (or anywhere else that uses 75us pre-emphasis) playing a contemporary hit format, running an Optimod 8400 or 8500 barefoot.
The Omnia One "Sweet Jane" clip that was just uploaded is interesting... it does a good job of avoiding distortion on the vocal sibilance, but at some cost of audible "ducking" of the treble response. It also tears up the sustained hi-hats pretty bad, and there is some vocal clipping towards the end. Overall, it does have the Omnia signature sound, and obviously we can't expect miracles from a budget-priced processor running an aggressive preset. Mr. Foti will gladly sell you an Omnia 6EXi at three times the cost if you want cleaner, louder sound! 
Yes the Cowboy Junkies track is very interesting in that the sibilance level,compared to the rest,is very high,so very testing on a processor.
I have uploaded the 8100a/xt2 processing of this,this is left with my standard settings that i use for all,It does not do too bad considering.
l have also uploaded the 8200 version,I have used fast multiband release,as this fills up the 8200's agc release better than midfast and midslow.
Midslow was quite embarassing in creating a bad hf dulling straight after the sibilance,more like hole punching on the hf
I have uploaded the 8100a/xt2 processing of this,this is left with my standard settings that i use for all,It does not do too bad considering.
l have also uploaded the 8200 version,I have used fast multiband release,as this fills up the 8200's agc release better than midfast and midslow.
Midslow was quite embarassing in creating a bad hf dulling straight after the sibilance,more like hole punching on the hf
Even with the fast releases you can hear it ducking, I think the 8100/xt2 does a better job in this case. Although the 8200 has a greater overall loudness ( I assume they where recorded at the same level).
It certainly is a good benchmark for your hf this song.
It certainly is a good benchmark for your hf this song.
The F Mister said:
You sure can hear it ducking,i was fully expecting it too!
I could have tricked up the settings like defeating the agc,and possibly using midfast to reduce the ducking,but i was using standard settings on both processors,that would be used in a real world situation.
Remember that this track is pretty much the exception to the rule,it would be interesting to hear an Omnia hot on this track for comparing.
The 8200 came out in 1991(i believe Radio1 here was one of the first stations to use it),when did the Omnia hot (or first Omnia dsp processor)hit the scene?
Here's the press release for the Omnia.fm HOT, dated April 19, 1999:FFoti1 said:
http://www.omniaaudio.com/news/press/HOT_plugin.pdf
C
CalifZeke
Guest
Kevin Tekel said:
What was the purpose of this added reply? The Omnia guy answered the original question.
Firstly, happy New Year everyone!!! Hope 2008 will be filled with great on-air sound for you all Maybe you'll be able buy a new processing box or your favorite manufacturer will make a much better algorithm release or you'll finally come to that perfect settings that makes your sound shine I also hope we'll have just as much (if not more!) processing discussions in the New Year!
Regards,
Goran Tomas
Maybe you'll be able buy a new processing box or your favorite manufacturer will make a much better algorithm release or you'll finally come to that perfect settings that makes your sound shine I also hope we'll have just as much (if not more!) processing discussions in the New Year!Regards,
Goran Tomas
You too Goran, this all must go along with a good health and best of luck to all.
Can't wait for the new dspx software release.....
Another thing, I will be visiting NYC next week and would love to listen some radio, what should I do, buy a cheap radio in a store or any other suggestions? I have a radio in my Nokia N73 but this is set for 50uS here in Europe.
Can't wait for the new dspx software release.....
Another thing, I will be visiting NYC next week and would love to listen some radio, what should I do, buy a cheap radio in a store or any other suggestions? I have a radio in my Nokia N73 but this is set for 50uS here in Europe.
Now, back to the clips Sorry Frank, I'll have to do a little criticizing this time... For everyone reading, let me just point out that this just my personal opinion.
The Sweet Jane track is one of those tracks that indeed put a strain on processors with high HF transients. Another very similar track that I used to demonstrate my perhaps biggest issue with Omnia.6 to Frank, is Shelby Lynne - I cry everyday. It too has huge dynamic range especially in the high end that Omnia-6 doesn't handle to my liking. These rare HF transients will cause higher band limiters in Omnia.6 to punch holes and create a prolonged dulling of the sound until the limiter releases back to usual GR. It doesn't help that the gating will cause higher bands limiters to recover very slowly because they are gated after the transient, and if there isn't any HF energy to trigger the gate (as there isn't in these songs) that will take a noticeably looong time.
To be fair, there will always be certain track that will "break" up any processor and it's most important what a processor does 99% of the time. However, and I just might be overly sensitive to this, this problem is something that I can hear often with Omnia.6 even with regular program material, not just these extreme examples. And that I couldn't (without ruining the rest of the sound) solve satisfactory by adjusting the processor. The milder effect of this problem is high-end breathing and changing frequency balance throughout the song (or with radio program that has lots of voices/cuts/jingles being mixed quickly and/or simultaneously).
I've uploaded the Sweet Jane track processed by Omnia-6 and with a factory RocknRoll preset. Recorded with 50 µs and directly from the output of a processor and without normalizing.
Now the Omnia.One, I'm glad to hear, really handles HF transients in this track very well! Just as good as 8100/XT2 (which is my personal favorite when it comes to naturally handling transients of any kind). So congrats to Frank for that. The 4-bands structure (in contrast to 6 bands in Omnia.6) might be one thing that also helps Omnia.One do a better job here. The uploaded clip does have a lot of distortion though, but not having played with the Omnia.One FM myself, I can't tell if it's the processing or just a bad recording.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
Sorry Frank, I'll have to do a little criticizing this time... For everyone reading, let me just point out that this just my personal opinion.The Sweet Jane track is one of those tracks that indeed put a strain on processors with high HF transients. Another very similar track that I used to demonstrate my perhaps biggest issue with Omnia.6 to Frank, is Shelby Lynne - I cry everyday. It too has huge dynamic range especially in the high end that Omnia-6 doesn't handle to my liking. These rare HF transients will cause higher band limiters in Omnia.6 to punch holes and create a prolonged dulling of the sound until the limiter releases back to usual GR. It doesn't help that the gating will cause higher bands limiters to recover very slowly because they are gated after the transient, and if there isn't any HF energy to trigger the gate (as there isn't in these songs) that will take a noticeably looong time.
To be fair, there will always be certain track that will "break" up any processor and it's most important what a processor does 99% of the time. However, and I just might be overly sensitive to this, this problem is something that I can hear often with Omnia.6 even with regular program material, not just these extreme examples. And that I couldn't (without ruining the rest of the sound) solve satisfactory by adjusting the processor. The milder effect of this problem is high-end breathing and changing frequency balance throughout the song (or with radio program that has lots of voices/cuts/jingles being mixed quickly and/or simultaneously).
I've uploaded the Sweet Jane track processed by Omnia-6 and with a factory RocknRoll preset. Recorded with 50 µs and directly from the output of a processor and without normalizing.
Now the Omnia.One, I'm glad to hear, really handles HF transients in this track very well! Just as good as 8100/XT2 (which is my personal favorite when it comes to naturally handling transients of any kind). So congrats to Frank for that. The 4-bands structure (in contrast to 6 bands in Omnia.6) might be one thing that also helps Omnia.One do a better job here. The uploaded clip does have a lot of distortion though, but not having played with the Omnia.One FM myself, I can't tell if it's the processing or just a bad recording.
Regards,
Goran Tomas
Goran:
Don't forget that the XT-2 was, essentially, a 6 band clipper. The compression ratio of the (5) band limiter scheme was fairly low.
At the higher sibilance frequencies of the Junkies' "Sweet Jane" cover tune, they were basically clipped by the high frequency clippers in the XT-2 chassis. This is why you don't hear dynamics control action there.
The 8200 had the same basic idea of the XT-2 in its design, while later Optimod digitals totally use look-ahead limiting of one type or another to replace "clipping".
It is possible to get that song playing correctly through the Omnia 6...At my former job before leaving engineering, a couple of my stations would play that tune regularly. Because I spent plenty of time getting to know the processor inside and out, I was able to totally eliminate this and the "breathing" issue as well. Its simply a matter of adjusting for your music format.
The factory presets on any processor rarely play well with most material, I've found. In fact, Orban factory presets (while not causing ducking on HF material) totally suck the life out of snare drums, for instance, but I'm not going to pan the box on a user forum because of that. One needs to explore the entire processor before returning a "I give up - this thing sucks -- guess what buddy, your processor has issues" response.
There are lots of things to tweak in the Omnia, and yes, it takes quite a bit of time to tweak!
I only say this as an end user who knows that it is totally possible to not have the problems you describe!
Now, folks...there are nuggets of info in this response that could provide clues to solving the Cowboy Junkies sibilance mystery on your Omnias...now it is your challenge to put the info to use!
Let's see how good you guys are at tweaking processing!
-C
Don't forget that the XT-2 was, essentially, a 6 band clipper. The compression ratio of the (5) band limiter scheme was fairly low.
At the higher sibilance frequencies of the Junkies' "Sweet Jane" cover tune, they were basically clipped by the high frequency clippers in the XT-2 chassis. This is why you don't hear dynamics control action there.
The 8200 had the same basic idea of the XT-2 in its design, while later Optimod digitals totally use look-ahead limiting of one type or another to replace "clipping".
It is possible to get that song playing correctly through the Omnia 6...At my former job before leaving engineering, a couple of my stations would play that tune regularly. Because I spent plenty of time getting to know the processor inside and out, I was able to totally eliminate this and the "breathing" issue as well. Its simply a matter of adjusting for your music format.
The factory presets on any processor rarely play well with most material, I've found. In fact, Orban factory presets (while not causing ducking on HF material) totally suck the life out of snare drums, for instance, but I'm not going to pan the box on a user forum because of that. One needs to explore the entire processor before returning a "I give up - this thing sucks -- guess what buddy, your processor has issues" response.
There are lots of things to tweak in the Omnia, and yes, it takes quite a bit of time to tweak!
I only say this as an end user who knows that it is totally possible to not have the problems you describe!
Now, folks...there are nuggets of info in this response that could provide clues to solving the Cowboy Junkies sibilance mystery on your Omnias...now it is your challenge to put the info to use!
Let's see how good you guys are at tweaking processing!
-C
I never understand the claims that 8100/XT2 has such great treble. Yes, the treble never gets a hole punched in it, instead it sounds like all high end material is performed with sand paper or dry toast.
Scritchy, scritchy, scritch scritch.
I would MUCH rather have some slight (e.g. controlled and minimal) ducking on the high end.
Scritchy, scritchy, scritch scritch.
I would MUCH rather have some slight (e.g. controlled and minimal) ducking on the high end.
cgould said:
Cornelius,
Of course the xt2 does a lot of clipping,but the limiters have comparators to fire the timing modules,so the compression ratio is surely high.
It is just that the threshold of the comparators sets the average clipping.
As the master agc gets compressed on the sibilance,this causes the drive to the xt2 to run dry somewhat,then you think of intelligent selective frequency agc and such..............
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