Programming Changes at KGO

[sloux]

The tinkering with KGO seems to be in full swing. The goofy new promo voice in use makes me wonder if Production Boy was shown the door. The promo copy sounds as though it was written by someone who knows little about the station or its listeners.

The new news updates along the talk-wheel also smack of corporate tinkering. I imagine a day when the new sheriff in town doesn't feel the need to immediately attempt to demonstrate how much better broadcasting is with his contribution...

Finally, I heard a promo that suggests KGO is returning to its "noon news" program. Len Tillem is a far more entertaining option than trying to emulate something that's already being done very well at KCBS!

My two cents.

 

[DavidKaye]

The tinkering with KGO seems to be in full swing. The goofy new promo voice in use makes me wonder if Production Boy was shown the door. The promo copy sounds as though it was written by someone who knows little about the station or its listeners.

Why should they care? KGO's losing audience faster than any other station. The ship has been sinking for several years. KGO needs to bring in the next generation of listeners and also give what remains of its existing listeners a reason for listening. I happen to like the snappier jingles and promo bumpers. The new sound makes KGO sound alive.

Frankly, the KGO talkshow model, politics politics politics, is worn out. When Michael Krasny on KQED can outdraw Ronn Owens (and Rush Limbaugh) in 25 to 49 you know that something's got to change. KGO is tired. It's been tired for years, and it began to happen years ago on Mickey Luckoff's watch.

 

[RadioStarOne]

And the changes made so far sure aren't going to help matters either, DavidKaye. This new voice is a rank amature and the use of this guy leaves a great big hole in the stations presentation! Perhaps the time has come for Clear Channel to do some wheeling and dealing and take over the station.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

Perhaps the time has come for Clear Channel to do some wheeling and dealing and take over the station.

That line just gave me the biggest laugh I've had in weeks. You know, there's nothing like good old play-it-for-laughs comedy. Thanks, RSO!

 

[RadioStarOne]

Someone on this board needs a sense of humor to liven things up a bit. Too bad that won't change the destruction of a once mighty radio station!

 

[radioguy39nj]

It's only a matter of when KGO becomes a clone of KABC Los Angeles and WABC New York. KSFO will be brokered out when Rush and Sean are moved to KGO. Too bad! It was a great talk station for a long time. Just MHO.

 

[MikeAmatori]

The tinkering with KGO seems to be in full swing. The goofy new promo voice in use makes me wonder if Production Boy was shown the door. The promo copy sounds as though it was written by someone who knows little about the station or its listeners.

The new news updates along the talk-wheel also smack of corporate tinkering. I imagine a day when the new sheriff in town doesn't feel the need to immediately attempt to demonstrate how much better broadcasting is with his contribution...

Finally, I heard a promo that suggests KGO is returning to its "noon news" program. Len Tillem is a far more entertaining option than trying to emulate something that's already being done very well at KCBS!

My two cents.

Well Sloux, Sorry to disappoint you, I'm still there.

The Voice you are hearing, Ronn calls him SNARKY, was picked by Corporate and Internally. For the record I Had NO VOTE. Above my Pay Grade.

What you call "promos" are actually "liners", Lonnie Perkins, our liner guy for 15+ years was let go in favor of a "Younger Voice"
The fact that Lonnie's stuff was Voice Only and this New Stuff is "Produced" is the reason. Once Again, For the record I Had NO VOTE. The Pay Grade thing again.

The Noon News returns has been in the works for months, AS IN Before Mickey Resigned, The new Talk Wheel was in the works
for months too, Also before Mickey left. It is, and I realize it's hard to believe, an effort to better play the PPM game. Talk all over the country has taken a hit because of the way PPM Measures. News, as in KCBS, has been less susceptible because of the nature of News programing, in fact, PPM has helped News Formats country wide.

The jingle package is New, TM Century did the custom package for us...It was in the works 5 months ago. Once Again Before Mickey left. I feel like the new Jingle Package takes 20 years off the sound of the station, more energy, more alive. The liners
are edgy and a bit smart ass which also adds to the energy...Different YES, Bad, NO.
(That's My 2 Cents)

KGO, like any station, is making a few changes, the fact we have made NO changes or Very Few changes for the past 30+ years, does not mean it was NEVER going to happen. KGO needs a new generation of listeners, it will need new hosts too... People Retire.

A final word about Mickey Luckoff. He was a pleasure to work for, He was tough, but fair. A great Broadcast Manager.
But Mickey would be the first to tell you he RAN the station, and that he was NOT the "Station" KGO will continue to evolve and change. If it is going to survive, it will have to.

The real tribute to KGO is the fact that there is so much BUZZ. (Much of it total fiction as I have read in some BLOG's.)
....It's 2010...AM Radio has been pronounced dead...Talk radio is dead...And here we are still talking about KGO...

The Sign Sez...Move Forward Please...I think it's a good sign, I think it's the only direction to go!

(Still) Production Boy

 

[jussomeguy]

I think the Shift Key is Broken on Production Boy's Remington.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

I think the Shift Key is Broken on Production Boy's Remington.

Remington shavers have shift keys? For what?

(Aside to the great and mighty Production Boy: thanks for clearing things up. Semi-amateur guessers such as myself have fun with this, the same way guys sit around and prognosticate about sports, politics and the stock market. I for one appreciate it when you drop by and give us foamers a spoonful of reality. I hope you're working at 900 Front until the day you decide it's time to go.)

 

[DavidKaye]

And the changes made so far sure aren't going to help matters either, DavidKaye. This new voice is a rank amature and the use of this guy leaves a great big hole in the stations presentation! Perhaps the time has come for Clear Channel to do some wheeling and dealing and take over the station.

If you're going to use the word "amateur" at least learn how to spell it. I have done voiceover work as well as DJ, news, and even a little TV movie hosting work. I follow the trends in the business. While the new KGO promo voice may not be to your liking does not mean he is either rank or amateur. His style is something you hear on some of the top-rated stations around the country.

Once again, KGO has to do something -- something -- to get its audience back. They're sinking fast. The attempt to reposition it closer to a news station is a good idea given that both KCBS and KQED out-pull them. Maybe the repositioning will work. Goodness knows the talkshows featuring the opinions of George from Moraga just aren't cutting it anymore.

And the voice, well, the guy sounds a generation younger than the other voices (host and production) on KGO. Think of it as a case of have-to. KGO has to sound younger if it's going to survive with its current format.

 

[onetake]

Problem is changing the promo voice doesn't change anything really. Sure WE notice it. But going to a female promo voice at TV hasn't brought in more female viewers, and younger promo voices hasn't moved a younger audience over. The product, not the promos, is what brings listeners, and revamping imaging risks confusing the loyal listeners.
Younger producers at stations are convinced a younger promo voice works because of personal preference but bottom line, AM n/t attracts a somewhat older and mature audience. CNN is a prime example of this thinking. After going to a younger sound with the same older anchors, the result was the lowest numbers ever, and the promos lacked credibility. Lonnie does sound older. But the N/T audience starts to trust less if they think the newsroom is "all young kids." We're always in some new consultant driven cycle, but transferring a CHR type promo voice to lift things has not really proven successful. It's the product that makes a difference. A N/T audience isn't wowed by dazzling or edgy promos but when programming VPs can't think of anything else, then, change the voice and add some jingles. Brillant.

 

[tripton99]

Tweeking all the production elements will help, just as working on the talk subject matter, making sure the hosts are relevant, can improve any talk station's ratings profile.
But when you have 5-7 minutes of commercial blocks you drive a ton of listeners away. And if you do it long enough your potential listeners know not to even check back. How the hell do you hold on to your listeners after even the best opening monologue if you leave them exposed to as many as 10-12 consecutive commercials before you can even get to your opening guest?
If you work at such a station your only hope is that someone figures out the horse goes in front of the cart. And the horse is not SALES. There will be time to sell your snake oil from the cart once you get your priorities straight.

 

[MikeAmatori]

Tripton99,

Could not agree more...Younger More Relevant Topics, Better Guests, and some Younger Hosts...Also, agree about the length of spot breaks. But as the people who own the place, not run the place, have told us, it is an effort to play the PPM game better. I know you won't believe this, but there are no more spots in the hour than there was before, now you just get bigger chunks of spots. Why? PPM needs 5 continuous min. in a quarter hour to have your listening count...So here is what happens, you start listening at 11 min after the hour, you listen for 5 continuous minutes...after the 4th min ends, you move into the 2nd quarter hour to complete your 5 min listen...what PPM sees/hears is that you have only listened to to 4 mins in QH#1 and 1 min in QH#2 The PPM result? No credit for either quarter hour. However bigger (uninterrupted by 3 min spot breaks) chunks of talk in each quarter hour may keep you around for 5 contiguous minutes in a quarter hour and get us credit for your listening.

So if your standing in a Chinese Restaurant, waiting for your takeout, and your wearing a PPM, and they are playing KOIT
on the radio in the background, and you have to wait for 5 continuous minutes in one of the 4 quarters in an hour...Congratulations you have just gotten KOIT some ratings even though you never listen to KOIT...Because with PPM, You Don't have to listen, Because PPM is listening for you...

And just a personal aside here...I hear KOIT/Music Stations playing in more public places than I hear KGO. Background vs Foreground stations which is part of the problem too. But since you are paid $$ to wear your PPM everywhere, you are
allowing it to hear what's playing everywhere...even when your not listening.

 

[BossRadioDJ]

So if your standing in a Chinese Restaurant, waiting for your takeout, and your wearing a PPM, and they are playing KOIT on the radio in the background, and you have to wait for 5 continuous minutes in one of the 4 quarters in an hour...Congratulations you have just gotten KOIT some ratings even though you never listen to KOIT...Because with PPM, You Don't have to listen, Because PPM is listening for you...

This is the radio equivalent of "teaching to the test" that I rail against. Program to the handful of people who may have a PPM device ... not to the tens (or hundreds) of thousands of people who don't. That's compounding one stupid idea (PPM) with an equally stupid response (programming directed toward the few carrying around PPMs).

 

[TheBigA]

Program to the handful of people who may have a PPM device ... not to the tens (or hundreds) of thousands of people who don't. That's compounding one stupid idea (PPM) with an equally stupid response (programming directed toward the few carrying around PPMs).

We don't make the rules. We're forced to play by them. If someone came up with a system that factually measured everyone's use of radio, and guaranteed that actual listening was taking place, we'd all gladly desert Arbitron and go to the new system. Until then, we're all screwed, and there's nothing we can do about it. I don't think you'll find a broadcaster who defends PPM. Advertisers want numbers. You can dazzle them with programming theories about how people want great music and they'll listen if it's made available. But at the end of the meeting, they want to see numbers, and that's how they'll make their decision.

 

[onetake]

[We don't make the rules. We're forced to play by them. [/quote]

You're correct and I've programmed enough major stations to understand how easy it is to "overreact" to numbers. PPMs are just part of a problem. Monthlies are often overstated vs studying trends. And combine that with our tendency to get bored with sameness people are sometimes quick to change for the sake of change. The production changes will have no effect on PPM measurement.

You might expect this thinking in a smaller market like Louisville, or Des Moines, but it tells me they can't even see clearly the big picture.

Maybe KGO has more result oriented changes coming that will help. Otherwise, maybe we should be glad stations like WCBS, WINS, WBBM, KYW, KDKA, etc etc., don't kid themselves into thinking a new voice with slick production is going to change anything. God help KGO. Or should I say "God help us!" if some see this as the answer.

 

[TheBigA]

Otherwise, maybe we should be glad stations like WCBS, WINS, WBBM, KYW, KDKA, etc etc., don't kid themselves into thinking a new voice with slick production is going to change anything.

Interesting that all of those stations have one thing in common. By the way, WINS changed their imaging last year.

The one thing CBS has done is energize their online presentation. They know they're not going to change the habits of 20-somethings, so they put their product where those people are. It's also worked for Bonneville's WTOP. Meanwhile, KGO's website looks worse than a station in market #150.

 

[raydioheadfm]

PPM needs 5 continuous min. in a quarter hour to have your listening count...So here is what happens, you start listening at 11 min after the hour, you listen for 5 continuous minutes...after the 4th min ends, you move into the 2nd quarter hour to complete your 5 min listen...what PPM sees/hears is that you have only listened to to 4 mins in QH#1 and 1 min in QH#2 The PPM result? No credit for either quarter hour. However bigger (uninterrupted by 3 min spot breaks) chunks of talk in each quarter hour may keep you around for 5 contiguous minutes in a quarter hour and get us credit for your listening.

So if your standing in a Chinese Restaurant, waiting for your takeout, and your wearing a PPM, and they are playing KOIT
on the radio in the background, and you have to wait for 5 continuous minutes in one of the 4 quarters in an hour...Congratulations you have just gotten KOIT some ratings even though you never listen to KOIT...Because with PPM, You Don't have to listen, Because PPM is listening for you...

And just a personal aside here...I hear KOIT/Music Stations playing in more public places than I hear KGO. Background vs Foreground stations which is part of the problem too. But since you are paid $$ to wear your PPM everywhere, you are
allowing it to hear what's playing everywhere...even when your not listening.

I'm pretty sure Production Boy meant to say "contiguous" throughout his post. In PPM you need 5 contiguous minutes within a standard quarter hour 00-:15, :15-:30:30-45, :45-:00) to receive credit. That means 5 minutes within that quarter hour. They could be continuous or they could be 5 stand alone minutes within that same quarter hour or any combination that totals 5.

 

[Madmansam]

Otherwise, maybe we should be glad stations like WCBS, WINS, WBBM, KYW, KDKA, etc etc., don't kid themselves into thinking a new voice with slick production is going to change anything.

Interesting that all of those stations have one thing in common. By the way, WINS changed their imaging last year.

The one thing CBS has done is energize their online presentation. They know they're not going to change the habits of 20-somethings, so they put their product where those people are. It's also worked for Bonneville's WTOP. Meanwhile, KGO's website looks worse than a station in market #150.

I still think KWSX-1280 Stockton website is the worst that I have seen. www.talkradio1280.com

 

[davideduardo]

Why? PPM needs 5 continuous min. in a quarter hour to have your listening count...

In the diay, you had to have 5 continuous minutes of listening in each quarter hour for credit for the quarter hour to be given. That was and is the diary methodology system since 1965.

In the PPM, a total of 5 minutes are required, but they do not have to be continuous... they can be 5 different minutes separated from each other by one or several minutes.

While it true that listening that starts in the last few minutes of the quarter hour can not create a credit, the rule is uniform for all stations and it creates a level playing field.

So if your standing in a Chinese Restaurant, waiting for your takeout, and your wearing a PPM, and they are playing KOIT on the radio in the background, and you have to wait for 5 continuous minutes in one of the 4 quarters in an hour...Congratulations you have just gotten KOIT some ratings even though you never listen to KOIT...Because with PPM, You Don't have to listen, Because PPM is listening for you...

Well, first as expained, the 5 minutes do not have to be continuous/contiguous.

Second, if you heard the station, you have allowed an advertiser to make an "impression" and one of the several reasons why advertisers and agencies insisted on the PPM was the ability to track impressions. The diary is more a measure of memory, so even much secondary listening that was brief or to less often used stations was lost.

And just a personal aside here...I hear KOIT/Music Stations playing in more public places than I hear KGO.

Rating/share/AQHPersons (expressions of the same thing) are based on cume and time spent listening. Stations a person "hears" for very short periods of time... accidental listening... add to the cume of a station, but they do not contribute significant exposure time. Half the cume of the average station contributes over 90% of the listening... meaning that the other half is essentially useless.

Stations detected in the drug store or supermarket or at your car service place during a brief visit don't get any TSL out of such incidents, so they are really not benefited. Cume is not the metric advertising is bought on... it's rating.

But since you are paid $$ to wear your PPM everywhere, you are allowing it to hear what's playing everywhere...even when your not listening.

The PPM is supposed to measure exposure. And while households / dwelling units are compensated for participating, they are told not to change their listening habits... the requirement is to carry the meter 8 hours a day or more (less for children), whether they listen or not.

The PPM responded to advertiser's need to get faster data delivery with more immediacy of the delivered data as well as the desire to have exposure, not memory, measured.