Question about signing on a CCM station

[cornbelt]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

Thanks for your good points Todd and Elizabeth. The more I think about it, it makes sense that the other secular stations will be significant "competition." Maybe I was just overestimating the audience that would come from people who are not using radio, or using it very sparingly, if nothing is to their liking in the area now. And, I am not taking anything for granted with the execution of this project in that I will approach this professionally just like every other project I have undertaken. Just because it's non-comm, religious, or out-of-the-box does not mean it should be done haphazardly.

I am really learning a lot, both from on this board and from other resources I have been pointed toward. It's kind of a professional-growth and personal-growth moment for me in exploring this category of radio. I never expected to be working on a project of this type until it came up, and it kind of makes you wonder if there's a purpose at work here.

Thanks again. Keep the great ideas and discussion coming. I'm sure I'm not the only one learning something from this thread.


> Actually, you are in direct competition with them.
> Especially if you haven't had a CCM there before.>>>
>
>
> For sure, Elizabeth.
>
> And Please don't make the same mistake that churches do when
> they attempt to have a concert: "Oh we're having a
> Christian concert so it will be sold out."
>
> Just because you're putting a Christian radio station does
> NOT mean that Christians will listen. Your product must be
> compelling enough for potential listeners to change their
> daily habits. That's a huge challenge.
>

 

[cornbelt]

Hi Brian:

Regarding the location, calls, frequency, etc. of the station: if I could tell you, I would. However, like in most "business" arrangements of this type, I am bound by my agreement with the organization to confidentiality. I'm not trying to be difficult, just honor my committments. so, I cannot confirm or deny your guesses as to where this is, except to say that the location is in the Midwest. Anything beyond that could result in a breach of confidentiality. If you want, I can release more information in the future when it is approved by the organization, but until then I cannot. I'm sorry if this seems "secretive." Keep in mind too, that the location of the station and my location are not necessarily the same, as I am consulting, and not in-house.

One of the other reasons for confidentiality is that the specific direction of the station has not yet been approved 100%, and while CCM is most likely the direction they will take, it is not the only one that has been discussed. However, I am convinced of its likelihood enough to solicit advice from the good people on this board, and would not do so if I thought I was wasting the posters' time. Even with the small chance that it does not happen that way, I feel I have learned so much from my investigation, chats, and messages with those in this sector of radio that I am a better professional and person for it.

Thanks. I hope you understand. And, I appreciate you graciously offering your views on the format and programming.

> May I ask what staion this is - call letters and city of
> license and frequency or is that a secret. If it is a secret
> for some reason can you say the state. I am guessing a
> station in the midwest with a rural population not within a
> major city. The networks you said you are familiar with are
> all in MN. I read on the Indiana board you used to live
> there. So I am guessing MN or IA or around there. I am going
> to check the CP's in the non-commercial band.
>
> I work in tv not radio. But it sounds like you want a
> christian adult contemporary format geared towards white
> woman in their child bearing years. That is the typical ccm
> station. TCM by Salem is the only sat format that fits it
> excluding K-Love. Some have said TCM would be a broader
> appeal then K-Love and I wondered why? I am just curious in
> the difference. I have heard TCM more since there are no
> K-Love station here in Springfield, IL. But as has been said
> TCM is geared for commercial stations. Several owners of
> commercial secular stations have picked up TCM. I like TCM
> music for the most part but since they are programmed for a
> commercial station by a commercial operation they have
> longer and more frequent stops in the music. Which is a bad
> thing for a noncommercial station and people wanting to hear
> music. K-Love, as has been saiddoes not have any partial
> stations. It sounds like wayfm would skew too young for what
> you want. I have not listened to wayfm for a long time
> online because there playlist seemed to be so tight with way
> too much mercy me. So much mercy me turned me off to them
> for years. Many stations it appears to me will have a couple
> of drive time annoucers and be off there hard drive the rest
> of the time. You may have to do that.
>
> This is off topic a little but has to do with formats. The
> station here where I am in Springfield, IL has no annoucers
> left locally. They only had a couple and they both left.
> http://www.wibi.org/staff.htm The morning drive is voice
> tracked by Debbie McMorrow from sister station WCIC and
> besides that just off the hard drive it appears. A strange
> situation. WIBI is 30 years old and one of the first ccm
> station in the country. But since I do not like their
> playlist or imaging I do not listen to them much. I have
> been listening to KKFS 103.9 in Sacramento recently to hear
> about their change of frequencies and I like their playlist.
> They sound good. KKFS for those who don't know is a Salem
> owned Fish station. The other Fish stations I have heard
> like the former Fish in Chicago or other Salem owned
> stations in Dallas KLTY or WFSH in Atanta seem to be more
> mellow and not to my liking. I guess research has shown
> listers in Sacramento, CA like a little more upbeat music
> then those in other Fish markets.
>
>
>
> 88.9 Cascade, IA Cascade Community Radio, Inc. 338ft 2kw A
> is a guess I have.
>

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

cornbelt wrote:
"Maybe I was just overestimating the audience that would come from people who are not using radio, or using it very sparingly, if nothing is to their liking in the area now."

That is going to be a small fraction of a tiny percent of your listeners, if at all. Now, we are into usage...and you won't be building your audience from those who don't use radio. You will be drawing from the other dials.

A great resource you really ought to check out comes from a few years back and you can find it as a download on Arbitron's site. "What Women Want" under female studies here: http://www.arbitron.com/radio_stations/home.htm

While there, also check out: http://wargod.arbitron.com/scripts/ndb/ndbradio2.asp

-e <P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[radioelizabeth]

brian_marchand wrote:
|"Some have said TCM would be a broader appeal then K-Love and I wondered why? I am just curious in the difference."


It has to do with overall content and philosophy. K-Love is a bit more "CCM" in content, programming, and overall sound, while Salem may stretch a bit farther into the market with a broader AC appeal.

 

[cornbelt]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

Thank you for the links and the reality check, Elizabeth.

You would think a person with years of experience as a programmer, who was trained at the grad school level to be a researcher, and also taught college-level research classes would have caught the fallacy of their assumptions about targets, audience, and usage. I guess we all need a reminder once in a while. Ha ha.

Still learning after all these years.

> cornbelt wrote:
> "Maybe I was just overestimating the audience that would
> come from people who are not using radio, or using it very
> sparingly, if nothing is to their liking in the area now."
>
> That is going to be a small fraction of a tiny percent of
> your listeners, if at all. Now, we are into usage...and you
> won't be building your audience from those who don't use
> radio. You will be drawing from the other dials.
>
> A great resource you really ought to check out comes from a
> few years back and you can find it as a download on
> Arbitron's site. "What Women Want" under female studies
> here: http://www.arbitron.com/radio_stations/home.htm
>
> While there, also check out:
> http://wargod.arbitron.com/scripts/ndb/ndbradio2.asp
>
> -e
>

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

> "MOST TYPICAL" CORE LISTENER
> Late 30's
> Female
> Married
> With Children
> Christian
> At least a weekly churchgoer
> Protestant
> Moderate to Conservative
> Caucasian
> Community involved (outside of church as well)
> Favors music programming over talk programming
> Looking for "inspiration," rather than "indoctrination"

"MOST TYPICAL" CCM TARGET


> NARROW TARGET DEMO
> 25-49,...

For the narrow target, that's just too broad. It's very hard to target more than a 10-15 year range. Let's go to the center of that and then out seven years (for a 15-year range) and say 30-44. Crossing three generations and 2-4 of lifegroups, that's still a little tough; you might want to move the center somewhere in the range of eight years younger to eight years older...your market's population and, to some degree, the existing audiences of other Christian stations will tell you which way and how much.

Should you go younger, CHRSN is certainly an option. Although the claim is that it's a CHR targeted at youth, it's really a Hot AC with a more mature presentation...an old-fashioned, mass-appeal Top 40, if you will. I find the way they insert local calls a bit unusual and awkward, but the overall is very good and listenable.

Should you go older, Northwestern/Skylight and AFR are worth checking out, but localization is minimal and the drift is solidly toward "inspirational."

Should you want to stay in the middle (which is still a very good and doable thing despite what I've said), as you've already read, you don't really have a good sat choice. K-Love is going to tell you they're either in or not in, and the Salem offering, in addition to the covering of stopset issues, is going to be too broad for an area with no CCM background. Hard drive with or without distant voicetrackers covering dayparts without local talents is going to be your best bet (although your voicetrackers would probably wind up sounding suspiciously better than your "call me and touch me and see me in the parade 'cause I'm here" locals).

All that said, CCM makes deciding and acting a little bit easier since very few have any knowledge of it beyond 5-10 years and formats are going to sound somewhat similar whatever way you go.


> While "secular" stations will likely not be considered
> "direct" competitors with this vision,...

From here on out, all forms of audio delivery are direct competitors whether they think so or want to be.

 

[toddohio]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

> For the narrow target, that's just too broad. It's very
> hard to target more than a 10-15 year range. Let's go to
> the center of that and then out seven years (for a 15-year
> range) and say 30-44.>>>


My experience has been to actually choose a SPECIFIC age like 38, for example. You'll get a "bell curve" as John Frost would say. That means you'll inherit ages around that, but you're focussed. It's like aiming at a bullseye by shooting a rifle as opposed to a shotgun.

And just like the Country format...families tend to make the Christian station a favorite or top pick...as a family unit. So, if you're shooting for a 38 year old mom (divorced or married)...you'll also inherit the junior high kids and younger. This is a big generality...but...it's also been my experience that young people 16 to 22 will leave Christian radio and then come back to it after college. So...I tend to think that a 38 year old mom's 16 or 17 year old will not share the same passion for the station as they once did when they were pre-teen. Of course...research may prove me wrong there.

 

[rbrucecarter]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

Hello! Kids are my specialty. The reason most of them leave CCM stations is that the music to them sounds like a dork-fest. I can tell you, though, you get a lot of kids back if you dump the praise and worship crap out of a CCM format and put in hot-AC instead. That is what WAY-FM did for a long time. Their play list wasn't that different from CCM, but where CCM puts in the obligatory spiritual medicine (now kids, we are having too much fun, we ought to tone things down and be "spiritual") - WAY-FM would keep the tempo up.

I think I agree with the observations of some of the others - the audience for CCM is aging, and maybe even an Air-1 type of format might even be better. The time for Christian AC might be passing. Think about your average 38 year old, they have probably never even heard of Amy Grant or Sandy Patty. Certainly not your average 25 year old.

 

[William_Yeager]

Another option

You could also try the Choice FM Radio Network, which right now services several LPFMs in the Ohio Valley. They have both an AC and CHR format, so you'll have a choice (no pun intended), and it's possible you might even be able to dabble in both. The localization opportunities are strong as well-the Northern Kentucky affiliates are even running minor league baseball games. Their Web site is www.choicefmradio.com<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

> ...the audience for CCM is aging,...

I didn't see anybody say that. Did I miss it?




> The time for Christian AC might be passing.

Nooooooooo...just gettin' goin'!



> Think about your average 38 year old, they have
> probably never even heard of Amy Grant or Sandy Patty.

Ah, it's not that the time for Christian AC is passing; it's that that definition is not just passing...it's gone!

The format has definitely undergone a redefinition and is likely beginning another one because the nature of the audience is different now. When a band like Switchfoot has one of the best-testing songs in the format for months on end, you know you're in a new era...

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

> My experience has been to actually choose a SPECIFIC age
> like 38, for example. You'll get a "bell curve" as John
> Frost would say. That means you'll inherit ages around
> that, but you're focussed.

Excellent idea....I was thinking more of the window you would use in your music tests and perceptual/strategics, though.

 

[rbrucecarter]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

I have definitely noticed the tempo ramping up on our local CCM station - KLTY. The fact that it is very influential means the format as a whole is probably going up in tempo. Of course it is probably more in response to local Dallas station KCBI playing more contemporary on the low end of tempo, and audience erosion of young people to power FM. KLTY knows they can't get the die hard Christian rock fans back, but by stepping up the tempo the position themselves between PowerFM and KCBI, and retain some listeners who might have otherwise changed stations - mellow adults to KCBI and teens to Power FM. I am sure they have quite a handle on things.

 

[toddohio]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

< you get a lot of kids back if you dump the praise and worship crap out of a CCM format and put in hot-AC instead.>

Again...just my general experience..."Extreme teens" don't count in this conversation because no radio station meets their musical needs. But even "mainstream older teens" will go through a time of experimenting and wanting freedom. You just can't count on them to listen.

Anything on the radio becomes uncool - music that's "indie" or not popular is the "in" thing. That's why it's extremely difficult to program a radio station to the upper teens - because their musical taste changes on a daily basis - based on peers and searching to find who they are.<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by toddohio on 09/21/05 03:16 PM.</FONT></P>

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: tempo

Bruce Carter wrote:
"I have definitely noticed the tempo ramping up... the format as a whole is probably going up in tempo... it is probably more in response..."


Tempos have been going up in all formats since...

I have rarely seen music slow down as the generations progress, but I could be wrong on that. Feel free to school me there, but I think the observation has less to do with response or the format, and more to do with music as a whole.

e<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

EXCELLENT POST TODD!

<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[rbrucecarter]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

> Again...just my general experience..."Extreme teens" don't
> count in this conversation because no radio station meets
> their musical needs. But even "mainstream older teens" will
> go through a time of experimenting and wanting freedom. You
> just can't count on them to listen.

I don't know - Power FM here is doing an excellent job of reaching them. If anything, the station is too extreme for the ones I talk to.

You are right about the experimentation - unfortunately it extends to all areas of their lives. Still, I think you can stand a better chance with them by targeting a station at their level than you can by pigeonholing them with the CCM audience. Yes - a CCM station will have a difficult time holding them. But I have been in a worship center with 10,000 fanatical Christian kids - programmed to by a station that meets their needs. I just don't think a soccer mom station will appeal to them.

 

[toddohio]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

<Yes - a CCM station will have a difficult time holding them. But I have been in a worship center with 10,000 fanatical Christian kids - programmed to by a station that meets their needs. I just don't think a soccer mom station will appeal to them.>


We agree. That station in your area 'probably' puts it's MISSON and PURPOSE ahead of revenue and ratings, right? (and that's fine with me if that's what the station president/board want)

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: Vision/Direction and Audience Targets

> I have definitely noticed the tempo ramping up on our local
> CCM station - KLTY. The fact that it is very influential
> means the format as a whole is probably going up in tempo.
> Of course it is probably more in response to local Dallas
> station KCBI playing more contemporary on the low end of
> tempo, and audience erosion of young people to power FM.
> KLTY knows they can't get the die hard Christian rock fans
> back, but by stepping up the tempo the position themselves
> between PowerFM and KCBI, and retain some listeners who
> might have otherwise changed stations - mellow adults to
> KCBI and teens to Power FM. I am sure they have quite a
> handle on things.


I don't mean to sound horribly critical, but...

Sentence by sentence, it's obvious your paradigm is entirely "top-down." Thus, you assume that these stations are making top-down decisions about what they're going to do based on assumed top-down decisions that other stations are making.

In reality, it's much more likely that all these stations are remaining exactly the same! It's the characteristics of the audiences they target that are changing as the ones who move in the bottom end are very different from the others who move out of the top end. The target window remains the same...it's the people in it who are different!

It's the "bottom-up" approach to creating a product...

Yes, there is definitely some "top-down" jockeying that occurs in radio today, especially as part of "cluster strategy," but you better be creating basically "bottom-up" if you want it to work.

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: teen targets

Bruce Carter wrote:
"I just don't think a soccer mom station will appeal to them."

But soccer mom has the paycheck. She is buying from a station's advertisers and she is sending in gifts...her teenagers are not. They are spending their cash downloading music or buying the fancy devices that do...and just stealing the music.

A station targeting teens would have a difficult time, unless it's donors were behind the vision 100% and funded every aspect of the operation without a care for reaching the masses or arb ratings.

And is that mass appeal enough to call it broadcasting...

 

[MorningLight]

> The bigger
> problem seems to be building the gold/recurrent part of the
> CCM library. Where would you go to get such a library? All
> my previous sources for other formats tell me "they don't do
> that format."
>
> Again, this is for a non-comm station that would be the
> first CCM station in the market.
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>

I have several links to various WEBsites that sell "used" Christian music that you can buy pretty cheaply.

www.mymorninglight.org/songlist.htm
You can also look at the HOME page and a few others, for links.

It's great to see that someone wants to bring Christian MUSIC to an area that lacks! Where are you located? (You can e-mail me privately if you wish. Link on my WEBsite.)

Willie...