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R&R Summit

hey!!!!!!

104.1 in new orleans..hallelujah fm plays crystal lewis..



> > "You seem to only want to skirt around the issue or you
> are
> > simply blinded or asleep."
> >
> >
> > I just as soon not use colors to define or describe human
> > beings or the music they make.
> >
> > Any human being. From any nation, culture, or race.
> Defining
> > a person by the color of their skin IS the division.
> >
> > So, call me blind, asleep or whatever you wish...but I'll
> > stand on that statement. I always have and I always will.
> >
> > Elizabeth
> >
> It would be nice if that was true. However, it still does
> not answer the simple question that has been raised plenty
> of times. Why a Mary Mary, Virtue and Out of Eden song can
> not be heard on a Christian AC station while Zoegirl, Staci
> Orrico and Crystal Lewis can have the same distinct sound
> and receive a heavy rotation on these same stations? Why
> Crystal Lewis, who mentioned tha she wanted to appeal to all
> audiences, is not heard on Urban Gospel stations? That is
> all I am trying to figure out. If CHR and Soft AC can break
> the color-code programming, why can't Christian music radio.
> You have yet to answer this simple question. If it is
> because listener don't want to hear the variety or
> programmers simply refuse to break the barrier, then the
> problem is on the inside of the people.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
Re: Topic

> radioelizabeth wrote:
> "You would have to address that question with each specific
> station. If you can site one station that answers in accord
> with your assumptions, then we've got an issue (with that
> station). Until you can, it's theory, and nothing more."
>
>
> The RadioFan wrote:
> "It's not theory. It's reality."
>
>
> PROVE IT.
>
How can someone prove anything to you since you don't listen to anyone who perspective differs from yours? Prove that I am based on theory. I don't get offended. I just try to speak by reality and not lies or by a way that satisfies my hearing. I don't want the itchy ear syndrome.
 
Re: Topic

> "The assumption is that race plays a factor in spinning
> singles. There is no evidence to support that theory."
>
> OR is there evidence to support your theory of it not being
> a factor.
>
> There has to be some underlying reason (perhaps
> subconscious) when a Yolanda Adams, Out of Eden or Virtue
> have songs released to contemporary formats (inspo or A/C)
> and disregarded for air play. I have personally witnessed
> that many times, and I was in a position once to recommend
> these songs and of course they were never added. I can only
> draw the conclusion I have come to.
>
> Let me give an example: Crystal Lewis & Kirk Franklin "Lean
> on Me". The orginal song is powerful but to get it played on
> Christian Contemporary stations, they had to remix it with
> Crystal Lewis and a little tiny bit of Kirk Franklin.I found
> that version blah when compared to the original. You will
> probably say the remix was because of Bono and some of the
> other secular singers on the original song, but that
> argument doesn't fly when 4Him's song with Jon Anderson of
> "Yes" was embraced by CCM.
>
> I don't see race personally and I don't see race in music.
> I'm just trying to understand the concept of not adding
> songs that are produced well, have a great message and
> released to A/C or Inspo. CHR doesn't have the problem,
> urban music is played heavily on many CHR stations.
>
> Speaking of listener preference, do you think it differs
> from what secular listeners enjoy. They love urban, Motown
> and R&B, programmers mix it in on most A/C stations. What's
> our problem?
>

I think that you forget that in the case of "LEAN ON ME", just weeks after the song went for adds on most Christian Stations R. Kelly was charged with having relations with a minor, and Mary J. Blige was arressted for assualt a month or so after that. Not to mention Bono infamous "F-Word" at the AMA's there was a lot of baggage hiding in that song. That's why it was reworked with Crystal Lewis.

Now why Isreal and New Breeds "Friend of God" was not a radio hit, but Phillips, Craig, and Dean's almost identical reworking of the song was is a much more of a puzzle
 
Re: Topic

True about R Kelly but I don't think the timeline of his arrest was while that song was a hit. Of course Christian radio wouldn't mention his name when playing it, and after the recording Mary J. Bilge went on record as having a spiritual awaking. Bono didn't utter his "word" until last year but nevermind that he is embraced in Christian magazines. Still compare Jon Anderson of "Yes" going up the charts with 4Him from the "Streams" project. Jon isn't a Christian, his bio was quite interesting (to find the proper word) when I last read it, I lost count of his marriages. Inspo/CCM sure didn't care and the production was undeniably "Yes".??
Christian radio is playing the Hurricane relief song currently with Christian Artists and secular artists (R. Kelly is on that project too). What's the rule?
 
Re: debate

> You are pretty unhealthy; "My attack has been against your
> premise, not you. Your attack has been against me
> personally, and you have slammed my company's imaging as
> well." That is really a sick statement from you!


Nah....she's telling the truth. Your premise is false; she's generally been demanding you prove it (which you are -- and will be -- unable to do), and I've actually been the one attacking it more. I think. I don't remember, anymore.




> I will leave you with this percentage; 95% white.


So?

You say that as if there's some problem for which you wish to assign fault. Well, if it's all about assigning fault, I assign fault to that 5% for not recruiting their friends and family to listen more and question their spiritual condition and commitment. That 5% is failing to join in unity and is being harmful to the body.

Now, are you taking that seriously, or are you starting to see how stupid, flawed, and false your premises are?

People obtain and program stations because they're called to and/or see opportunity with an unserved audience; listeners consume or don't consume that product based on their own desires and preferences, and that consumption or lack of consumption by particular groups says nothing at all about whether the station is doing what it should.



> If you like it that way...


My like or dislike is irrelevant, and, frankly, I'm not even sure I have like or dislike!



> ...then you need to look within yourself and ask why.


Why? Why do you listen to the radio, not find what you want, and then assume there's something wrong with the character or spiritual condition of the programmer??

Unless listeners say there's a problem, there's not a problem!



> I will pray your eyes will be opened.


Back to your top-down, "those not agreeing with me are inferior and spiritually flawed" paradigm, huh?

Unless listeners say there's a problem, there's not a problem!
 
Re: Topic

the RadioFan wrote:
"How can someone prove anything to you since you don't listen to anyone who perspective differs from yours?"

totally wrong.

"Prove that I am based on theory."

Definition:
theory: hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena

"I just try to speak by reality and not lies or by a way that satisfies my hearing."

You have yet to show any real life case.


<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
> That seems to be the missing point in most research,
> programming for your own market. The thought has been to
> program broadly without too much thought of what your local
> listeners might actually desire to hear.

What in the world are you talking about?? That's what research is --
finding out what your listeners (and, possibly, potential listeners)
where you are want!

You obviously have some other definition of "research," an incorrect definition
which tells us a lot about you.



> Another revelation is that we actually don't know our
> audience. Who we think might like inspo, Contemp., CHR or
> rock based on the age standards doesn't hold up to who is
> actually listening. The usual rule is the heavier we go the
> younger the audience - perhaps that might have been true at
> one time but times have changed and yes younger ones do show
> up but the old ones stay also.

Ah....something correct!

And, by the way, it isn't so much that times have changed...it's
that the preferences of the people occupying the ages that make up the
various targets have changed.




> Actually the CHR format comes the closest to meeting the needs of the
> entire family.

It depends on how it's done. WAY-FM seems to have it just about nailed,
for example...



> Back to the drawing board might be good.

For some, going back to the drawing board is a yearly, monthly, weekly, or
even daily thing...we call those people and stations "successes!"
 
Re: debate

> Prove I'm wrong. Be sure you prove others that have posted
> on here wrong.


A strange reply to my previous, rather detailed response...could you please
be a little more specific?
 
Re: debate

whatzthat wrote:
"Prove I'm wrong. Be sure you prove others that have posted on here wrong."

Definition - "wrong"
incorrect: not correct; not in conformity with fact or truth
based on or acting or judging in error
not in accord with established usage or procedure


<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: debate

neutral_observer wrote:
"Nah....she's telling the truth. Your premise is false; she's generally been demanding you prove it"


THANK YOU. :)<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Topic

> the RadioFan wrote:
> "How can someone prove anything to you since you don't
> listen to anyone who perspective differs from yours?"
>
> totally wrong.
>
> "Prove that I am based on theory."
>
> Definition:
> theory: hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural
> world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true
> would explain certain facts or phenomena
>
> "I just try to speak by reality and not lies or by a way
> that satisfies my hearing."
>
> You have yet to show any real life case.

I read in the CCM magazine articles, I I hear on the radio and I have better things to do with my life besides going back and forth on this issue. Honestly, I can care less what Christian music radio plays. If they want to stay locked up in their corner that's find with me. I am sure not listening to them. There is other sources to find good music, most not heard on terrestrial radio. By the way, you never answered whatzthat question: Do you play any Christian artists that is not of the same race as yours? Also, explain why the Billboard CCM charts contain a variety of music not prevalent on the most CCM stations. Your non-color code statements and what I am hearing on the majority of CCMs and Rhythmic Christian stations in this country are not adding up.
>
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by The RadioFan on 12/20/05 08:38 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Topic

> I read in the CCM magazine articles,...

...CCM Magazine being based in Nashville, physically and personally much closer
to the labels than to any station's audience.


> I I hear on the radio...

I thought you didn't hear on the radio!


> Honestly, I can care less what Christian music radio plays. If they
> want to stay locked up in their corner that's find with me.

Ratings for the format are higher than they've ever been! It's getting really
hard to say it's "locked up in some corner."



> Also, explain why the Billboard CCM charts contain a variety
> of music not prevalent on the most CCM stations.

What Billboard CCM chart? You'll have to be more specific! Also, when you
respond, please include the methodology the chart you choose uses.
 
Re: Topic

You know we don't have to prove. Paragon's Research at the R&R Summit pretty well tells the story. Radio "E" says it doesn't have anything to do with music. One and one equals two, no black music = no black listeners.
Train your audience by introducing music for everyone. It can be done.
I'm not talking about flying by the seat of your pants, be strategic and add those songs that will give your station variety.
If a station is located in a large urban area, what must the ratings be if you don't program to that audience, and CCM can do it.
 
Re: Topic

whatzthat wrote:
"Paragon's Research at the R&R Summit pretty well tells the story."


Wow. If this is how you analyze research studies, it explains a lot. The Research Paragon did in no way tells the story you are.


"Radio "E" says it doesn't have anything to do with music. One and one equals two, no black music = no black listeners."

Again, a completely false assumption. And again, one that is totally defined by "color".

"Train your audience by introducing music for everyone. It can be done."

Train your audience? Please site some specific results from any station, any format that trains their audience? So you move some of the target to the arrow and pretend you've actually made a good shot?



"I'm not talking about flying by the seat of your pants, be strategic and add those songs that will give your station variety."

No one has ever challenged strategy or variety or creative programming. The challenge has been against using "color" as one of the criteria in doing so.


<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Topic

the RadioFan wrote:
"By the way, you never answered whatzthat question: Do you play any Christian artists that is not of the same race as yours?"

I did answer that question. I've never stopped to count the races. It's an absurd question to ask...one that offers no value, one that presumes it matters what race someone is in order to get airplay. Ridiculous to program based on "skin color". Ridiculous to look for it, promote it, or analyze it. Ridiculous and racist to do so.

"Also, explain why the Billboard CCM charts contain a variety of music not prevalent on the most CCM stations."


Please be specific.

<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Topic

"E", You just may not know everything...wow thats probably a shocker for you. I actually read quite a few of your older posts on different subjects -(throwing my time away again). If you don't agree then the subject is considered worthless.
Out of curiosity how do you read the statistics presented? Are you happy with them?
Why are you are so afraid to talk about color? What exactly are you afraid of?
Do you live in a closet somewhere? everything for you is rosey and pink in your little world. Do you work with black staff members? I do and they aren't afraid to discuss situations concerning their race, why do you find it so offensive?
Don't you think we could do better or are you comfortable?
Color is not the reason for strategy or creativity, it does enter into it. I don't want an all white audience, that's probably another shocker for you. I want to reach my area.
 
Re: debate

>" A strange reply to my previous, rather detailed
> response...could you please
> be a little more specific?"

I can see why you are in agreement with "E". Makes no sense.
>
 
Re: debate

> >" A strange reply to my previous, rather detailed
> > response...could you please
> > be a little more specific?"
>
> I can see why you are in agreement with "E". Makes no sense.


Regardless of the time you say you've been doing radio, it's clear that
you understand very, very little about the charts and our industry. If
you knew what you were talking about, our insisting on more specificity
would immediately make all the sense in the world.
 
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