R&R Summit

[neutral_observer]

Re: Topic

> Out of curiosity how do you read the statistics presented?
> Are you happy with them?

There's nothing new there, and there's nothing actionable. They're relatively meaningless.



> Why are you are so afraid to talk about color? What exactly
> are you afraid of?

Why are you obsessed about and fixated on it? What, exactly, are you
insecure about?



> Don't you think we could do better or are you comfortable?

"Do better" means what?

If, once again, it's your race windmill, you need to understand that what
you're obsessing over is not our job, and there is no top-down solution
that can be forced by a radio station.

You keep refusing to address your inability to think any way other than
top-down. Have you spent any time at all on it?



> Color is not the reason for strategy or creativity, it does
> enter into it.

No, it doesn't.



> I don't want an all white audience, that's
> probably another shocker for you. I want to reach my area.

I hope you know a lot more about your actual available audience and your area
than you do about music charts.

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: Topic

> You know we don't have to prove.

Hunh? Why not? You're saying a whole bunch of really stupid and offensive
stuff...shouldn't you try to prove at least a little of it??


> Paragon's Research at the R&R Summit pretty well tells the story.

No, not really. Paragon is a truly excellent company, but this "research" was
little more than just a promotional vehicle. Various radio vendors have found
out that a number of Christian stations now have enough money to purchase their
wares, and they want to go after the business...hence several big-name companies
making Christian-related presentations in different areas at the various
conventions over the past few years.



> no black music = no black listeners.

I knew you'd eventually say that if this went on long enough!

Ha!

You are the one with a problem dealing with the racial issue...I've
sensed that all along. You are of the flawed -- and possibly racist -- belief
that black people listen only to black artists and that black artists are an
absolute must for attracting black listeners. You're wrong.


> Train your audience by introducing music for everyone. It
> can be done.

You just can't get away from top-down thinking, can you??!

You simply must try! You cannot force people to change their
preferences, so you're just going to have to get over your top-down mindset!

If you keep trying to "train your audience," your audience will train you...in
how to endure loss!



> I'm not talking about flying by the seat of your pants, be
> strategic and add those songs that will give your station
> variety.

Stations are already doing that...just not in the way you want.
Listeners are liking it in record numbers, so I guess it's your tough
luck!



> If a station is located in a large urban area, what must the
> ratings be if you don't program to that audience, and CCM
> can do it.

I have no idea what that sentence means and have no guess what it was supposed
to mean.

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: Topic

whatzthat...

Your post here, like most your others... is once again simply a personal attack against me because I'm challenging your unsubstantiated claims.

You can turn this argument into something it's not all you like...but the truth is shown in these threads...

You make a claim of bigotry and bias.
You fail to back that up.


I disagree. I challenge you. I challenge your theory.

You accuse me and offend me and attack me, personally.

It's apparent. It's old. It's futile.

Either back your claims and site sources, or move on.

Elizabeth<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: debate

whatzthat wrote:

"Makes no sense."


Now we're at the truth.

If you can't understand our request for specifics, perhaps it might serve you best to hold off on such broad blanket statements in the future.

Elizabeth


<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: This all began from the R&R Summit

> Look "E" - I am not the one looking at skin color.

Yes....you are!

In another post, you said, "black artists = black listeners!" You're not seeing
anything but skin color!



> How else can you come to the conclusion that CCM radio is
> 95% white.

How else do you come to the same "conclusion" about rock, active rock, classic
rock, country, soft AC, AC, hot AC, modern AC, talk, and FM talk? You go first.



> It shouldn't be that way.

Why? Who are you to decide that and try to force it on people from a mere radio
station? By golly, I'm going to keep saying it until it gets in -- you
cannot force people to like what they don't! There is no top-down
solution to this supposed problem you say you see!



> Why are we not reaching all colors.

Because it is impossible to be all things to all people simultaneously!




> I really don't want to hear the excuse of format.

Then you understand nothing about radio or marketing or human behavior or life
in general. Our attempt at conversation has been a waste.




> I actually do not see color...

Okay, I'm gonna say it -- YOU ARE A...teller of untruths!

"black artists = black listeners!"
-- whatzthat

You can't not see color! You're flat out obsessed with it!



> ...so talking about this is difficult but it upsets me to see it happen.

You say you talk about it frequently with many different people!

You're not a good liar, at all...which you may take as a compliment, if you wish
(I'm trying desperately to find something positive to say, but you're not giving
me much to work with!).



> I have watched it for a long time. I notice the lack of it being
> played when I travel and listen to other stations.

Of course you do...you're strangely obsessed with color despite your claim that
you don't see it!



> I prayed it would get better but I believe many are comfortable with the
> pegs they have put themselves in.

Serving daily the largest available audience and playing a role in significant
life change will do that to you...



> Have you even delved into this or do you want to believe
> that everything is rosey and we have nothing to overcome.

We have nothing to overcome that will be overcome on a single radio station.



> I'm not condemning anyone, I have a sister that I gave a WOW
> Christmas CD that stated to me that she loved it except for
> "that black woman". I have no idea who turned her off but I
> gather my sister has a little problem inside that she hasn't
> come to terms with. She is older and came up in a different
> time. She is a very wonderful person but sometimes I hear
> labels come out of her mouth that make me cringe.

So...tell me what her exact behavior is (or would be) at the moment a
song like that comes on the radio. Please be specific. Now, tell us exactly
what would happen to her usage of a radio station if it tried your top-down
approach of forcing those songs upon her for the good of...whatever it is you're
thinking.

Is anything we've been talking about starting to come together...?



> One of my best friends is a reporter on FOX News Network. He
> and I along with others have discussed this many times. I
> don't know how to distinguish his color with you without you
> getting offended although he has no problem bringing it up.

Above, you claimed you don't see color, but here -- again -- you can't help but
go right to it even though it's irrelevant to what you're saying!

Something is horribly wrong!



> I don't think programmers or promoters even think about it.

Of course not! We think about the audience we can get and how we can
keep it longer, not the audience we can't get and how to chase off the one we
can.


> It's habit and it needs to change....

No, it's marketing and Biblical principle that needs to be adhered to!

Again, we'll change if and when the audience changes...and that's the only
sequence that will work!

 

[whatzthat]

Re: debate

Again you also seem to know everything. You and "E" continue to do radio well. You are the only ones on this discussion board(by your comments) that think they have that knowledge and ability , the rest of us by your terms are not "real radio People". I know who I am and I know what I've done. I don't have to answer to you but mark my words this topic will come up again. Not by me, I should add. Merry Christmas!

 

[whatzthat]

Re: debate

You don't own this forum - like you said in a previous comment "Open Forum".
A good suggestion for you besides joining the real world, don't read it if you don't like it. This subject will come up again in the industry. Until then hide yourself away and put down everyone who doesn't agree with you. Have a wonderful blessed white Christmas.

 

[whatzthat]

Re: Topic

I have not attacked you yet but I will if you want. I will comment that you think you own this discussion board and if a subject doesn't "please" you or you can't rule it, you whine and slam others.
You think you know me, you have put me down as not being a "real radio Person", programmer, knowledgable in radio. the list goes on. You say I also see color because I notice music that is not being played. I'm laughing real hard here. Honesty upsets you. You won't answer my questions, you obviously have no answers so in turn you slam me.
R&R is where the Paragon figures came out, if you like it that way then fine, what's the big deal. Just say you like the figures and you could care less.

I perceive you are a liberal Christian, I've noticed your views swing that way from your posts. Not an attack, just a perception. Like how you preceive my knowledge and ability of radio and that I am a racist.

You say move on, I can't seem to do that because you are so bored with life that you have nothing to do to hit me again and again. With all the work you say you have, you sure have a lot of free time. Again have a Merry 95% "White" Christmas!

 

[whatzthat]

Re: Topic

>
"Paragon is a truly excellent company, but
> this "research" was little more than just a promotional vehicle.
Wow! Now you are slamming the research that we took part in.

If I was a racist I would be happy that some of the music wasn't playing and I would be making comments about it. I would be defending myself for not playing it. hummm...who does that sound like?

"Stations are already doing that...just not in the way you
> want."

Just in the "white" way, is that what you mean to say?

" If a station is located in a large urban area, what must
the ratings be if you don't program to that audience, and CCM can do it"

That's funny that you don't understand this sentence. Perhaps I should make it bolder and darker for you.

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: Topic

wow.

Your last post there speaks volumes of your character and your understanding of debate and discussion.

It also shows once again that there is no evidence of the "truth" you say exists in this format...

I'm very pleased with my handling of this debate.

I'm sorry you weren't able to defend your position a little better and stay on topic.

Elizabeth<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: debate

Wow.

<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: debate

We never said we were the only real radio people whatzthat.

And just because others haven't posted, doesn't mean they aren't reading every word you have put in print. Or the ones I have as well.


I've no doubt you will bring this discussion up again, and again, and again...but whether you will ever validate it...is yet to be seen.
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: Topic

> Wow! Now you are slamming the research that we took part in.

Nope...just saying it was more likely to be a promotional vehicle for the
company than anything upon which you can take specific action. It's the most
shallow of perceptual stuff....just a tick above mere observation. There's only
"what"...no "why" and no "what I should do" to it.

You don't think they were giving away the good stuff, do you? That's how they
make their livings, and you ain't gettin' it for free!



> If I was a racist I would be happy that some of the music
> wasn't playing and I would be making comments about it. I
> would be defending myself for not playing it.

That's one very simple definition of "racism"...here's one I find interesting:

"no black artists = no black listeners" -- whatzthat

In line with all your other top-down-only thinking, you've shoved all black people
into one tiny box of your own making. And it's a box that is false.

Two important things:

1) If the format has an audience that is 5% black, then the format is doing as
well as or better than every other format that is not specifically targeted at a
black audience.

2) This thread goes on and on, but you never mention the group whose numbers
exceed the group you're obsessing over -- Hispanics. If you really want to
"reach out" to some group other than Anglo whites, Hispanics would probaly be a
better choice in that they would likely be easier to assimilate in...and you
just ignore them. You must be biased against them. Have to be. That's gotta
be what it is. You've said nothing about bringing them in...about programming
to them. You hate them. You're an embarassment to our community.




> "Stations are already doing that...just not in the way you
> > want."
>
> Just in the "white" way, is that what you mean to say?

Nope...I have the capability to say exactly what I mean and do just that pretty
much every time. Unless I've been up too late.

As to the snide "white way" line, the answer is again, "no." It's the way that
attracts the largest available audience and keeps it for the longest possible
time.



> " If a station is located in a large urban area, what must
> the ratings be if you don't program to that audience, and
> CCM can do it"
>
> That's funny that you don't understand this sentence.
> Perhaps I should make it bolder and darker for you.

I'd suggest structuring it in such a way that it has actual meaning and clarity
first...the only person who could possibly have any clue what that means is the
writer, himself.

 

[whatzthat]

Re: debate

>>
> "And just because others haven't posted, doesn't mean they
> aren't reading every word you have put in print. Or the ones
> I have as well."
Thats is how much tunnel vision you have, others are posting but again they don't count because they don't agree with you.
>
>
> I've no doubt you will bring this discussion up again, and
> again, and again...but whether you will ever validate
> it...is yet to be seen.
>
I won't bring it up again because I understand now, you don't want anything but a white station and you will no doubt dominate any discussion, I'm sure the industry will down the road. I didn't just get it out of the sky, there is buzzing. Enjoy!

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: debate

whatzthat wrote:
"I won't bring it up again because I understand now, you don't want anything but a white station"

Never. Never. Never have I said that. Never have I implied that. Never would I even begin to define anything like that.

You are wrong and completely out of line once again.


"and you will no doubt dominate any discussion"

Yes, I'm very good at debate. Especially against a topic that has no credibility.


"I'm sure the industry will down the road. I didn't just get it out of the sky, there is buzzing."

And there will always be the few that buzz and grumble and whine and complain and create issue where there is none or create a bias where there ought to be balance. There will always be those who stir up descension and strife.

We can jump on that plane, or stay grounded.

I prefer the latter.

<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[whatzthat]

Re: Topic

"Your last post there speaks volumes of your character and
> your understanding of debate and discussion."
>
Your views, and of course in your mind the only ones that count. It must be pretty small in your world, being the boss of everything. I love the way you don't attack character, like you can really tell my character on email. Hopefully what I am reading (your many many comments) is not your character, I sum it up to you being highly emotional and having a constant desire to control. If your character is as portrayed through some of your comments, better get into the Bible. Proverbs is really good and describes a quarrelsome person.
This was to be an honest discussion and the desire was to see how we could do better in capturing people of all races, yes "E" races are there whether you want to see it or not. Actually what you have done is pointed out exactly what I have been talking about, it's something that is not deliberate, I honestly don't think you are a racist, you are just good at ignoring. We all need to change but you can't make changes if you don't address the problem. That was my topic, you took it everywhere else.
I'm extremely busy so this is the last reply I am answering, if you want to continue with Neutral Observer bragging on your little selves,the discussion is yours, I will be spending my time on Christmas; my staff, friends & family.

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: Topic

once again, you take it personal and attack me.

And the issue wasn't whether there are different races. It was whether this industry determines airplay based on a person's skin color. You continue to post that it does. I continue to ask for specifics.

yes, your character and mine shows through every single word in print.

I'll gladly back mine with my name,

Elizabeth<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[whatzthat]

Re: Topic

"yes, your character and mine shows through every single word
> in print.I'll gladly back mine with my name,"

I can't resist replying to this one. If that's truly your character showing through, I would think very strongly about you NOT using your name.

 

[radioelizabeth]

CHARACTER

I thought you were gone?



Character: "the inherent complex of attributes that determine a persons moral and ethical actions and reactions; quality: a characteristic property that defines the apparent individual nature of something"

or: "fictional character: an imaginary person represented in a work of fiction"


It is about INTEGRITY whatzthat.

And being authentic. Who you are alone in the dark is who you are out in the light.

Being able to stand up and and be honest with others. Face to face, square in the eye...not hidden behind the safety of a false identity.

I'm proud of my position on this thread.

Elizabeth


<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>

 

[neutral_observer]

Re: debate

> Until then hide yourself away and
> put down everyone who doesn't agree with you.


Elizabeth's (and my) agreeing or disagreeing with you is irrelevant -- you are
wrong, and no amount of agreeing by any number of people will change that. Truth
and reality are not affected by one's personal assent or dissent.





> Have a wonderful blessed white Christmas.


It looks like I might...

...but I'm really hoping to move south next year!