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R&R Summit

Re: Topic

" Why are people like you on the internet always obsessed with
> "agree?"
I know people are not always going to agree with me. I have no problem with that. "E" though has concern, she must win, I'm sure that is a valuable trait at times. This though is pure silliness.
Concerning the topic, I have been watching the situation for quite a few years. I told you that I was in a position for probably close to 10 years, to push this music to stations for adds. They were released to the formats of inspo or A/C, and many stations just bypassed the songs. I would say that most stations didn't give any a try, yet other music that wasn't even produced that well were grabbed into playlists. I am sure they did not do it deliberately as I mentioned previously many times. Inspo was a big one for keeping with one color. They just turned their head, I don't think there is prejudice there and I have mentioned that many times, I think there is too much fear in how their audience will react, so much they are boring.
In my area the Gospel station which is pretty contemporary actually stays in the top 5 in the ratings. I have noticed this same pattern in many other states. This particular station is owned by a secular company and they do an excellent job. It's the best of black contemporary, I think it is referred to contemporary praise by arbitron, they came up with that format for the more contemporary gospel stations. The rest of Christian radio is down at the bottom including the christian networks.
I must be a glutton for punishment going over this again. I just felt because many of my responses were done in a hurry due to the fact that "I was working", perhaps I didn't make my case or at least give you some understanding of where I was coming from.
By the way, R&R hired Paragon and paid them for their survey and statistics. It wasn't a farce. When I heard the statistics, it set off the frustration of what I have been watching and dealing with for years. End of story.
 
Re: Topic

whatzthat wrote:
" "E" though has concern, she must win, I'm sure that is a valuable trait at times. This though is pure silliness."

Just because you have not been able to validate your theory, and I have drawn that out, does not mean I must win. It does show however, as most debates do, that sometimes, the wrong position loses.

And for anyone who would have mistaken your blanket bias as fact, perhaps now they have seen where the argument breaks down upon challenge.<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: whatzthat

radioelizabeth wrote:
"I thought you left."


whatzthat wrote:

"I left you."


Apparently, not.

<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
dictionary

this seems to be the websters thread..everything seems to have its definition here..??<P ID="signature">______________
note to the NAB..satellite radio..its worth paying for!!</P>
 
Re: dictionary

smashed cd wrote:
"this seems to be the websters thread..everything seems to have its definition here..??"



It seemed the most obvious way to make the point without it being construed as "personal opinion".

e<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Topic

> > Overall, I disagree with you and you disagree with me.
>
> Irrelevant. There is true and false and right and wrong
> here...these are not
> matters of opinion.
>
I guess you believe that you are in the right and anyone disagreeing with you are in the wrong. I understand.
>
> > You, along with your colleagues in the Christian music
> > industry,...
>
> We're not in the music industry; we're in the radio
> industry. HUGE difference!
>
I stand corrected. I meant Christian radio industy.
>
>

>
>
> > I don't understand how a local Urban
> > Gospel can stop the music for a few hours on the weekend
> to
> > air an one-hour show hosted by a Black Muslim who
> constantly
> > makes racial statements targeting the white race.
>
> "Urban Gospel," as you call it, is really the black-targeted
> equivalent of
> "Bright AC."

I didn't pick the term "Urban Gospel" or "Black Gospel." I think both labels are absurd. Both of these terms seem to be the most popular in the industry in describing this particular format. I think both terms are a missrepresentation of the format. I am sure that not all listeners or artists prevalent in this genre are from the urban areas or is desire by all people in the urban areas. I think the term "Rhytmic AC" is a better term. However, I don't create the labels. Plus, why would a Christian station allow a Black racist Muslim host a one-hour show before they would allow white bible-believer on the air.
>
> > Since Salem radio claims to
> > be a Christian-based organization, I don't understand how
> > this company allowed Bill Bennett make the statement about
>
> > aborting black babies.
>
> They didn't "allow" it...it's not as if talk shows are
> scripted such that they
> can be vetted before broadcast.
>
He made the statement on the national airwave without any apologies.
>
> > Although, he said that would be
> > immoral, it was still in his mind and he spoke it over the
>
> > airwaves.
>
> Are you sure you understood the context of the discussion?

Yes, plus it was in the news for days. If you think the statement was in the right, then something is really wrong since not all babies grow up in the same enviroment or are alike.
>
>
> > Now, I know you will justify all these examples. However,
> I
> > see this type of broadcasting only creating divisions
> among
> > the races. For these and other reasons, it will be very
> > difficult for me to continue to listen and support
> Christian
> > radio.
>
> Nooo...you see things that, for some reason you haven't told
> us, you choose
> to interpret as and believe are signs of division. Why are
> you
> wanting to do that? Why do you not find the same fault with
> secular stations?
> Why do you not head over to other format boards and take
> them to task? Go to
> the country board and tell them they all need to play lots
> of rap for the sake
> of unity, and then go to the urban board and tell them they
> need to play lots of
> country to avoid being divisive racists. Do the same on the
> smooth jazz and
> alternative boards...and the oldies and rhythmic boards.
> Report back!
>
Country and Rap are two different styles of music. Christian artists like Zoegirl and Out of Eden had the same basic sound. KJ52 and Grits both have a similar sound. The list goes one and yet Christian radio only plays one side. Also it seems that alternative, urban and smooth jazz formats do a better job with accepting all people who are geared to that format. The urban industry has developed many successful white artists in that genre. The smooth jazz and oldies formats are probably the most diverse formats available. The alternative format is more diverse than Christian AC or "Urban Gospel" and I understand that there is a black rapper in country music.

Again, if you think you are in the right, then so be it. I don't have to listen to your station or the stations of your colleagues.
 
Re: Radio Fan

> Hey don't stop listening to Christian music just because of
> human frailty. I'm speaking of this silly dispute. Keep
> listening and plugging in to God. Thanks for your
> comments!!! They are important!
>
Thanks for the encouraging words and your comments as well. I will definitely continue plugging in to the Father. As far as listening to Christian music stations, I will be keeping that issue in prayer. It is a shame that these issues are overlooked. Locally, there was a Christian CHR which played a mixture of rock, pop, rap a R&B Christian music. Although this station was a LP, many people preferred this station over the other Christian station, which was your typical Christian AC station. The owner of the Christian CHR station mentioned that he received reports from listeners who began to listen to Christian music on full-time basis, since they were exposed to different styles of music not heard on the Christian AC station. Also, the mainstream CHR station and urban station lost about point in the ratings while the Christian CHR station was on the air. Now, that may be just a coincidence. I don't know. However, I do know that the Christian CHR station introduced several people to Christian music. With all the constant cursing heard on Alternative stations, and all the sexual suggestive lyrics on hip hop stations, I think it is time for some fresh Christian programmers to rise up with a different mission or perspective. The audience is definitely out there.
 
Re: Examples

> The RadioFan wrote:
> "I still don't understand how a national CCM broadcaster can
> air the music of rapper KJ52 in heavy rotation but not
> artists like Grits. I don't understand how most Christian
> ACs can play Zoegirl in heavy rotation and leave out
> Virtue."
>
> I'm sure there are a variety of factors regarding all those
> songs. If it's race, it's wrong...but no one has been able
> to site evidence of that on these threads.
>
I am willing to listen to the factors behind it. No one has yet been able to mention any of the factors. I agree that if it's based on race, then it's wrong. If it is due to other facts, I am willing to hear the factors. As for now, I have not heard any factors. I just know certain artists with the same style of music are not being aired while others are receiving heavy rotation.

> "I don't understand how a local Urban Gospel can stop the
> music for a few hours on the weekend to air an one-hour show
> hosted by a Black Muslim who constantly makes racial
> statements targeting the white race."
>
> Hmm... no idea about which station, or the program but if
> that happens, that does seem a bit off.

Out of respect of the station, although they really don't deserve any respect, I am trying to avoid naming stations who are engaged in these wrongdoings.
>
> "I don't understand how a black woman announcer at an Urban
> Gospel can identify the black artists on a track and leave
> out the white artists."

>
> Again, not familiar with the station or announcer, but if
> true, I would say that announcer would benefit from some
> coaching and airchecks.
>
I agree

> "Since Salem radio claims to be a Christian-based
> organization, I don't understand how this company allowed
> Bill Bennett make the statement about aborting black
> babies."
>
> Well...that thread was a while back...and on other boards as
> well. And I think this is a rather broad statement of the
> specifics.

How is this a broad statement? It is an example of a talk show host, who claims to be an evangelical Christian, making a statement based on race.
>
>
> "However, I see this type of broadcasting only creating
> divisions among the races. "
>
> I would say, some of the above examples seem to be showing
> quite a division. As does the any belief that states our
> gifts, talents, and abilities ought to be rewarded or denied
> based on the color of our skin.

I can agree with that as well. The gifts, talents, and abiliites should not be reward based on the color of skin as well as denied based on the color of skin. However, I am still like to know what are the factors in deciding which artists are played and which artists are not. I hope it is not race. However, no one has yet presented the factors.
>
 
Re: Topic

> So you are Neutral Observer. I thought so. You answer and
> he/she doesn't.


A guy's gotta go to bed some time, ya know...
 
Re: Topic

> > So you are Neutral Observer. I thought so. You answer and
> > he/she doesn't.
>
>
> A guy's gotta go to bed some time, ya know...

Just reminds me of Major Frank Burns and Margaret Hollihan of Mash. She spoke for him too.
 
Re: dictionary

>
>
>
> It seemed the most obvious way to make the point without it
> being construed as "personal opinion".
>
Rolling on the floor laughing at this one...............
>
 
Re: Examples

The RadioFan wrote:
"I am willing to listen to the factors behind it. No one has yet been able to mention any of the factors.... However, I am still like to know what are the factors in deciding which artists are played and which artists are not. I hope it is not race. However, no one has yet presented the factors."


Well that is probably because no one ever asked for them. The assumption that is being drawn is that because these artists have one thing in common, that must be the reason. That isn't the case.

Station by station, criteria changes. Some factors include, but are not limited to: lyrical content, production value, tempo/style, "wow" factor, "fitness test", test scores, chart movement, awareness of the single, library, and others.

Again, this is a very small list that in no way defines the perimeters per station. But it's just a start. I've worked with lots of stations, not once, not ever, has anyone ever had "color of artist" skin on the radar in selecting.

Keep in mind also, in many other formats, payola runs it's course. You also have some companies buying the air time for their spin, much like a program. Those factors should be considered in discussing differences also.


Elizabeth
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
whatzthat

seriously, I thought you left.<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
whatzthat

i thought you left.<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Examples

Well, we can go back and forth on this issue. However, I rather spend my time engaging in something more productive. Although I disagree with several things taken place in Christian music, I have the free choice to change the dial and stop listening to these stations. I believe this will be my future choice.
 
Re: Topic

> > > Overall, I disagree with you and you disagree with me.
> >
> > Irrelevant. There is true and false and right and wrong
> > here...these are not matters of opinion.
> >
> I guess you believe that you are in the right and anyone
> disagreeing with you are in the wrong. I understand.


Nooo..."belief" and "disagreeing" are irrelevant! There is truth and falsehood
and right and wrong here, and they are not matters of my opinion or yours. In
this case, you are wrong because you "believe" a falsehood that "agrees"
with something you appear to want to "believe" for some unspoken
motivation of your own.



> I didn't pick the term "Urban Gospel" or "Black Gospel."

Well, I'm not sure I recall hearing them anywhere else, so....




> Both of these terms seem to
> be the most popular in the industry in describing this
> particular format.

Or, perhaps, you've seen them said by other amateurs like you on an internet
message board and have come to "believe" yet another falsehood. That's the
problem with message boards -- amateurs and wannabes spewing their opinions
appear to be equal and level with pros who are telling you the truth. You wind
up getting fooled and then "believeing" falsehoods.



> I am sure that not all
> listeners or artists prevalent in this genre are from the
> urban areas or is desire by all people in the urban areas.

In not understanding the term, you're again showing yourself to be very much an
outsider. I would suggest you have much to learn before so loudly representing
your "belief" as reality.



> I think the term "Rhytmic AC" is a better term.

No, it's not. Such a term, though not actually used by anybody as far as I
know, suggests something completely different.



> Plus, why would a Christian station
> allow a Black racist Muslim host a one-hour show before they
> would allow white bible-believer on the air.

Again, you have a "belief" that is false -- that gospel stations are actually
Christian stations for black people. That's incorrect. Here I go having to
repeat myself again...

In most cases, "Urban Gospel," as you call it, is really the black-targeted
equivalent of "Bright AC." Although gospel stations might be consumed by a
number of black Christians, they are not Christian stations for black people!



> > They didn't "allow" it...it's not as if talk shows are
> > scripted such that they
> > can be vetted before broadcast.
> >
> He made the statement on the national airwave without any
> apologies.

So? What does that have to do with what you said about Salem? You've changed
from "Salem" to "he." Do you understand that there's a difference??



> > > Although, he said that would be
> > > immoral, it was still in his mind and he spoke it over
> > > the airwaves.
> >
> > Are you sure you understood the context of the discussion?
>
> Yes, plus it was in the news for days. If you think the
> statement was in the right, then something is really wrong
> since not all babies grow up in the same enviroment or are
> alike.

OK, do you (and everybody else) see what you just did there? You made a very
brief statement about the issue itself but then immediately left the realm of
fact to devolve it into conflicting opinion and make my "opinion" the issue
rather than the issue itself.

You really should cut that out.

And, if you think that's a legitimate way to debate, you have a lot of learning
to do in that area in addition to the learning you need to do about radio and
marketing.

(By the way, it's now clear that you didn't understand the context of his
comment...but let's not let the topic change to Bennett, okay?)



> Country and Rap are two different styles of music...
> The urban industry has developed
> many successful white artists in that genre. The smooth
> jazz and oldies formats are probably the most diverse
> formats available. The alternative format is more diverse
> than Christian AC or "Urban Gospel"...

Okay, now look what you've done here -- once again, you're looking at and
defining formats in a top-down-only fashion! And, largely as a result of doing
so, you've changed the subject.

What I wanted you to look at and think about was a series of utterly silly
attempts to force styles of music on an audience that does not expect or want
it! Think bottom-up, NOT top-down!

Now....go back and try to think those combinations through again. What would be
the result?


> Also it seems that alternative, urban and smooth jazz
> formats do a better job with accepting all people who are
> geared to that format.

Whoa! For a second there, you actually thought "bottom-up!"

Excellent!

Now, understand this -- Christian AC also accepts all people who are
geared to the format! All listeners who want the format are very much welcome!

We might have just experienced a breakthrough! Keep going!



> ...I understand that there is a black rapper in country music.

...and his sales and airplay aren't squat. He rides the coattails of a popular duo.


> The list goes one and yet Christian radio only plays one side.

I don't really want to accept your terminology, but, if I must, then I'll say
that Christian radio, where done best, does indeed play one side -- the
side of the desires of the largest available audience!



> Again, if you think you are in the right, then so be it.

You're still not getting it...I don't "think" anything except that any radio
station I'm to be involved in must reflect the preferences and desires of its
listeners! As far as what goes on the air, I am a music agnostic! I really
don't care what it is as long as it's exactly what the audience the station has
been called to serve wants!

What I'm saying is right because *it* is, not because *I* am. What you're
saying is wrong because *it* is, not because you're the one saying it. Does
that make sense to you?
 
Re: Yes!

The RadioFan wrote:
"I have the free choice to change the dial and stop listening to these stations. I believe this will be my future choice."


...and THAT is the heart of it. What every PD knows. It begins with the listener's choice.

Those scan, seek, and preset buttons all have a purpose.

I hope you find a station you like. Maybe it will be one where you will hear me? I'll talk to you in code. When I say "you", pretend it is to you, although...with AC, you'd have to be a woman for a while?

;)
e
<P ID="signature">______________
RADIOELIZABETH
Pleasant, Passionate, Persuasive
www.radioelizabeth.com</P>
 
Re: Examples

> ...I have the free choice to change the dial
> and stop listening to these stations.


Exactly! That's the challenge we face every second of every day!

And congratulations on another instance of bottom-up thinking (yay!)-- the consumer has
the option to make another choice or discontinue use if the current choice becomes
unacceptable!

Now, tell me this -- what would happen if a station, employing top-down thinking
like yours, started playing music its listeners do not want, forcing it upon them
"for the good of" whatever it is you're thinking?



I think we're done here. Discussion over. Feel free to apologize anytime....
 
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