Radio and Older Demos

[Chuck]

What I have explained over and over is that agency accounts, like P&G and Coke and Honda and so on do tons of research on ad effectiveness as well as even more on the prime prospects for their goods and services.

Oh yes, you have explained over and over, to the point of sounding a bit like a parrot.

Remember why Oldsmobile was discontinued as a marque of GM? It was because the brand only had appeal to 55+ consumers, and no hope of growth because generally, the 55+ consumer bought one and then died. A bit extreme, but that was the published reason... no sales growth, and no interest in the brand by younger folks.

Actually at one time, Oldsmobile appealed to lots of kids. The Olds 442 was one hot street machine. What killed Oldsmobile was the General Motors mentality. In the 70's and 80's, Olds was their technological leader. By the 90's, they switched gears and turned it into an "also ran" that was little different than a Pontiac or Buick. They were totally boring cars. I'm a car guy, and I can't even remember what one looks like. Basically, they neutered a previously sexy product and then wondered why they didn't sell. It wasn't just kids who didn't care about Oldsmobile. Nobody cared. There is probably a lesson there for radio, if anyone will listen.

The truth is that advertisers have quantified the issue, and do not advertise towards 55+ on the radio. I asked our local GM in radio's #1 market how many 55+ campaigns had been up in the last 12+ in this huge, billion dollar plus market (stations know what campaigns are up because stations are asked to submit cost per point quotes against the target demo) and I was told that not a one could be recalled.

If everyone continues to keep their head in the sand, that's OK by me. It’s no skin off my nose. They are leaving money on the table. I’m sure you can justify that as a cost effective measure.

In any case, they also know there is no ROI on any over-55 radio advertising.

The key word here is "radio." Companies do advertise to the over 50 demographic. I'm inundated with it. Perhaps print, direct mail or alternative means are more cost effective. If that's the case, I think that is radio’s loss. Broadcasters are simply not getting their fair share of the pie.

Most people over 55 can´t even consider early retirement because they can not afford it.

That is perhaps true. I don't know that many people who are in their 50's or even early 60's who are retired. Even the ones who claim to be retired are really just semi-retired. They still do things that bring them income. Maybe the ones who have managed to do it early have just learned to work smarter. The last I looked, even the over 60 people who go to work every day are still consumers.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

No sense in banging our heads against a wall on this. I know there's money to be made in the 50+ market and many of you do too. I also know for a fact that AARP has spent millions researching the 50+ market as have other research firms such as Age Wave. They know there's money to be made in the 50+ market and have published reports to prove it.

If agencies and broadcasters want to cling to the tired bromides that there's no money in older Americans that's their funeral. Personally, I would treat this thinking as the toxic waste that it is; encase it in cement, bury it in a mountain and forget it. Then I would develop a campaign to capture this lucrative and growing market while their still listening to radio.
db

I'm working on it db.
Perhaps we could work together?

 

[Chuck]

If agencies and broadcasters want to cling to the tired bromides that there's no money in older Americans that's their funeral. Personally, I would treat this thinking as the toxic waste that it is; encase it in cement, bury it in a mountain and forget it. Then I would develop a campaign to capture this lucrative and growing market while their still listening to radio.

db

Somebody is going to figure out how to make money out of it. If it is not the existing agencies and conventional radio, that's OK by me.

 

[davideduardo]

No sense in banging our heads against a wall on this. I know there's money to be made in the 50+ market and many of you do too. I also know for a fact that AARP has spent millions researching the 50+ market as have other research firms such as Age Wave. They know there's money to be made in the 50+ market and have published reports to prove it.

The point, from the manager of a radio station's perspective, is that there are no agency buys coming out for 55+, so if one programs to that demo, they will have no billing from agencies.

In smaller rated markets, there is decent direct business. In unrated markets, there is nearly 100% direct business. So a station that leans older can do fine if the sellers are good and the advertiser is happy with the results: in other words, these are the market situations where the cash register is the best ratings device available.

But if the difference between profit and loss depends on getting on agency buys, you have to have decent numbers in the demos agencies buy. And you have to price according to agecy cost per point goals for each buy, or offer additional value-added benefits, like remotes, etc.

In these agency dependent markets, the reality is that there is no money available, by client dictate, usually, for 55+, whether for a station aimed at that demo or for the portion of a station's audience that is over 55.

If agencies and broadcasters want to cling to the tired bromides that there's no money in older Americans that's their funeral.

The media provide the outlets for what agencies and advertisers want. The dictate on demos generally comes from the agency client, not the agency. The client has, in most cases, their own research or syndicated data that show where advertising is effective for them. At this time, there are not buys against 55+ coming out. A station with good 55+ is nothing new: nearly all news / talkers on AM are heavy in 55+.... but they get sales on the 25-54 portion.

There is no demand for 55+ in radio, no matter how much the print media like the AARP magazine tries to push the demo.

Personally, I would treat this thinking as the toxic waste that it is; encase it in cement, bury it in a mountain and forget it. Then I would develop a campaign to capture this lucrative and growing market while their still listening to radio.

I want to be there when you try to convince P&G that you know more than they do about ad effectiveness and marketing.

 

[Chuck]

In these agency dependent markets, the reality is that there is no money available, by client dictate, usually, for 55+, whether for a station aimed at that demo or for the portion of a station's audience that is over 55.

It might be interesting to know the history of how they became "agency dependant markets." I suppose it just happened. I know that getting regular agency buys is a lot easier than actually hitting the pavement and selling something. It would seem to me that an effective sales force should be able to over come that. Perhaps radio is guilty of taking the line of least resistance? There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but sometimes it does result in mediocrity. There appears to be a lot of that in radio these days, and I think that’s a real shame.

 

[davideduardo]

It might be interesting to know the history of how they became "agency dependant markets." I suppose it just happened.

It happened about 80 years ago as radio became an important medium. Advertisers who sell nationally or regionally don't generally do their own media placement or creative. They just give orders to an agency.

Advertisers have a bigger interest in the largest markets, as there are more people. Half the US 12+ population is in just the top 50 metros.

The larger the market, the fewer local accounts there will be that buy direect. It makes no sense to buy expensive time on a signal that covers the whole market if you just have one store or just a couple. So the users of radio will be those operations that sell broadly distributed products, like Coca Cola, or who have many outlets in every neighborhood... like McDonalds or CVS Pharmacies. Those big advertisers have agencies.

The bigger the market, the higher the percentage of total market revenue that comes from agencies.

I know that getting regular agency buys is a lot easier than actually hitting the pavement and selling something.

Actually, agency sales is a different kind of selling. It is transactional, based on negotiation. Direct selling is based on benefits, relationships and trust... and measurable results. It is as hard to sell agency business as local direct...

It would seem to me that an effective sales force should be able to over come that. Perhaps radio is guilty of taking the line of least resistance? There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but sometimes it does result in mediocrity. There appears to be a lot of that in radio these days, and I think that’s a real shame.

An agency buy starts with the agency asking for costs against the establish cost goals for the campaign and the preestablished demo the client wants, expressed in cost per ratings point. Stations submit, based on delivery of the desired demo and the station rate. The agency can not buy all stations usually, so there is negotiation to get on the buy, or to bring costs in line. Added value like promotions and remotes is often included to sweeten the offer. Each buy goes through all these steps, with the cost negotiation going back and forth multiple times on many occasions.

 

[dbdigital]

No sense in banging our heads against a wall on this. I know there's money to be made in the 50+ market and many of you do too. I also know for a fact that AARP has spent millions researching the 50+ market as have other research firms such as Age Wave. They know there's money to be made in the 50+ market and have published reports to prove it.

If agencies and broadcasters want to cling to the tired bromides that there's no money in older Americans that's their funeral. Personally, I would treat this thinking as the toxic waste that it is; encase it in cement, bury it in a mountain and forget it. Then I would develop a campaign to capture this lucrative and growing market while their still listening to radio.
db

I'm working on it db.
Perhaps we could work together?

I would really enjoy it.

db

 

[dbdigital]

Another great article debunking the notion that the 50+ crowd is not worth programming or selling to, this one from R&R's Carol Archer.

"Apparently, many clients believe that older consumers are stuck in their ways and have established, unshakable brand loyalty, thus they focus on building brand loyalty on younger demos, ostensibly before their buying habits ossify like insects in amber. Sorry, but they are dead wrong on this count...

Smooth jazz sales pioneer Beth Davis, now Clear Channel/St. Louis director of sales, refutes the assertion that boomers are stuck in their ways. Growing up, this generation embraced an experimental lifestyle and remains inquisitive and open to trying new things, she says. “The smooth jazz demographic, qualitative and psychographic is similar to news/talk, though younger. Clients need to understand that smooth jazz listeners still invest in and try new things, and are still in an acquisition mode, though their tastes and means have increased. Indeed, they have second homes, second and third cars, more expendable income for entertainment and extravagant travel, and high quality of life,” Davis says."

For more information on selling to boomers, Ms. Archer suggests reading theboomerblog.com which including studies conducted in 2006 by Fleishman-Hilliard, a global PR firm which specializes in the boomer generation.

http://www.radioandrecords.com/RRWebSite/

db

 

[davideduardo]

Another great article debunking the notion that the 50+ crowd is not worth programming or selling to, this one from R&R's Carol Archer.

"Apparently, many clients believe that older consumers are stuck in their ways and have established, unshakable brand loyalty, thus they focus on building brand loyalty on younger demos, ostensibly before their buying habits ossify like insects in amber. Sorry, but they are dead wrong on this count...

And how does a sales manager for a St. Louis station know more than companies like Proctor and Gamble that spend hundreds of millions finding out who the consumers are and how they behave?

The fact remains that there are essentially no agency buys for 55+, and the most requested demo is now 18-49 and not the traditional 35-54.

 

[vsa]

I agree with David. When I turned 55, I wrote down all of my favorite brands and vowed never to stray from them again - even though I no longer had any need for them. I stopped buying soap, toilet paper, food, drink, consumer electronics or any other hard goods. I also stopped using any and all services. Even though my income is its highest ever, I sold my home and now live in a cardboard box on skid row and use this computer at the library. Advertising anything to me is now a complete waste of time and money. I still do travel some, but it's only when I hitch-hike to and from work and when I get discharged from the county hospital and they drop me off in front of the mission. I don't miss the expense of owning a car. Most of us on skid row are over 55 and are actually quite wealthy. We just have no need to pay for anything anymore. Everyone I know over 55 does the same thing. So does David, but he won't admit it. C'mon David. Fess up. I know that you live in a tent on San Pedro Street, just a couple of blocks away from me. Wheren't those deep-fried turkeys last Thanksgiving at the Union Rescue Mission great?

 

[dbdigital]

I agree with David. When I turned 55, I wrote down all of my favorite brands and vowed never to stray from them again - even though I no longer had any need for them. I stopped buying soap, toilet paper, food, drink, consumer electronics or any other hard goods. I also stopped using any and all services. Even though my income is its highest ever, I sold my home and now live in a cardboard box on skid row and use this computer at the library. Advertising anything to me is now a complete waste of time and money. I still do travel some, but it's only when I hitch-hike to and from work and when I get discharged from the county hospital and they drop me off in front of the mission. I don't miss the expense of owning a car. Most of us on skid row are over 55 and are actually quite wealthy. We just have no need to pay for anything anymore. Everyone I know over 55 does the same thing. So does David, but he won't admit it. C'mon David. Fess up. I know that you live in a tent on San Pedro Street, just a couple of blocks away from me. Wheren't those deep-fried turkeys last Thanksgiving at the Union Rescue Mission great?

I don't know why but I get a sadistic pleasure yanking DE's chain on this issue.

The same article also quotes from a sales person for KKSF, San Francisco on the advantages of selling the 50+ plus demo, so it isn't just some sales person in St. Louis who's talking about selling boomers to advertisers.

As for Proctor & Gamble, I know for a fact that they regularly bought full page ads in Modern Maturity Magazine when I was working for AARP (in their Radio and Television Section). So they obviously believed in the older demo.

db

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know why but I get a sadistic pleasure yanking DE's chain on this issue.

I do not know why. The fact is that ad agencies seldom buy 55+ to the point that our LA manager can not recall one in the last year and a half. Yank all you want... there is no client interest in using radio for 55+ and there is a decreased usage of 50-54, as 18-49 becomes the preferred demo.

The same article also quotes from a sales person for KKSF, San Francisco on the advantages of selling the 50+ plus demo, so it isn't just some sales person in St. Louis who's talking about selling boomers to advertisers.

It's funny that both stations mentioned are smooth jazz formatted, and this is a format that is getting very old. Obviously, the interest in this format by agencies in many markets is declining, so the stations have to find local direct non agency accounts to sell where age is less a factor or, like KOAI in Dallas, change format. We had a smoothe jazz station in one market, outside the top 50, and there were just not enough advertisers to sustain it; it lost money eternally.

As for Proctor & Gamble, I know for a fact that they regularly bought full page ads in Modern Maturity Magazine when I was working for AARP (in their Radio and Television Section). So they obviously believed in the older demo.

Apples and oranges. Magazines are used for senior-specific products (insert Depends joke here) because there are some products that are senior specific where there is good ROI in print. The AARP magazine is full of ads, most for senior insurance, senior healh care and medicines, senior travel, and other products that most folks under 60 don't need and have no prior brand preference issues to overcome. Many of the ads are half text, due to disclosure issues for drugs, insurance, investments, etc.

In any case, the medium we are discussing is radio, and there are no 55+ agency buys to speak of.

 

[Chuck]

And how does a sales manager for a St. Louis station know more than companies like Proctor and Gamble that spend hundreds of millions finding out who the consumers are and how they behave?

Has it occurred to anyone that she might know something they don't want to acknowledge? She could be right. Lots of business screw up big time by sticking to their "we've always done it that way philosophy. It's also nothing new that huge corporations do idiotic things which cost them (and their shareholders) lots of money. Railroads thought they ran trains and ignored the fact that they really were in the transportation business. How about "New Coke?" Have you bought a Betamax recently? Or maybe an Edsel? Big business does not always have its finger on the pulse of the American public.

Perhaps he next time they have a colonoscopy, the doctor will figure out where their heads have been hiding.

The fact remains that there are essentially no agency buys for 55+, and the most requested demo is now 18-49 and not the traditional 35-54.

Undoubtedly, you are factually correct. The question is, "Is this a good idea?" I think you are about five years my junior, but from my vantage point, I'm from a generation who pushed the envelope any time we could. Sometimes we did it successfully, sometimes not. Like the Frank Sinatra song, we still like to do it "My Way." Most of my contemporaries do not intend to be anything like their parents in their retirement years. We seem to be healthier, and we even look younger. Most of us are not taking life lying down. I doubt that you will either. It seems like this is an opportunity to be a visionary, if you'll let it happen.

 

[davideduardo]

Has it occurred to anyone that she might know something they don't want to acknowledge? She could be right.

Interestingly, Neither Clear Channel in St. Louis nor the market overall has a smooth jazz station. That must be because the format has some kind of a problem... maybe the older demos don't permit a profit there.

Lots of business screw up big time by sticking to their "we've always done it that way philosophy.

Here are the facts. Agency buys are essential in larger markets. Agencies buy based on ratings. Agencies buy radio almost 100% within the ages of 18 to 54. Smooth Jazz is becoming a 55+ format as the format ages. Radio stations with dropping under-55 audience have a hard time selling to agencies.

Local direct accounts in large markets are fewer than in small markets. Generally, the pay lower rates and demand more service.

A station that puts on a mostly 55+ format will be limited to mostly local direct accounts, This may work in a lot of small, unrated markets. But if agency and ratings-based buys are important, the more 55+ a station swings, the less it will sell.

Undoubtedly, you are factually correct. The question is, "Is this a good idea?"

The clients who tell the agencies what to do think it is... because they know that it takes, in some cases, more ad expenditure than the profit on the sale to sway older consumers. And in others, the return is just low... and does not justify different creative or different budgets for older leaning radio stations.

It seems like this is an opportunity to be a visionary, if you'll let it happen.

Let's say I could get the $250 to $300 million for an LA FM. I need a format that will produce billings of above $30 million to pay the debt service on that acquisition. Old-leaning KMZT, a classical station, was down to under $8 million in billings as the audience averaged 65, and even the Mercedes dealers pulled off. They switched to country.

The owner could have sold, and made tax free about $15 million a year by investing in CA munies, with no work and no risk.

There is no way to justify an investment in a radio station that will not get 18-54 ratings and will not be able to bill any significant amount.

If and when agencies start buying 35-64, some stations will move in that direction. But for the moment, there is move from 25-54 to 18-49... looking for an even younger consumer that has less resistence to advertising.

And in the two sectors where there is growth in radio, Black and Hispanic radio, even 18-34 is common, and there is practically no 25-54. 18-34 or 18-49 are it.

 

[dbdigital]

"Apples and oranges. Magazines are used for senior-specific products (insert Depends joke here) because there are some products that are senior specific where there is good ROI in print. The AARP magazine is full of ads, most for senior insurance, senior healh care and medicines, senior travel, and other products that most folks under 60 don't need and have no prior brand preference issues to overcome. Many of the ads are half text, due to disclosure issues for drugs, insurance, investments, etc.

In any case, the medium we are discussing is radio, and there are no 55+ agency buys to speak of."



I would say oranges and tangerines better describes it. Print or radio, they're both mass media (they're both citrus, get it?). The point is that P&G has no problem selling to the 50+ demo.

I've already provided plenty of written evidence that shows that radio is discovering this lucrative market. So far, you've given me nothing but pontification and personal opinion, neither of which amounts to much.

db

 

[davideduardo]

I would say oranges and tangerines better describes it. Print or radio, they're both mass media (they're both citrus, get it?). The point is that P&G has no problem selling to the 50+ demo.

The products that P&G markets to over 55 tend to be products designed for seniors, and they are placed in media which delivers such consumers efficiently, particularly cable tv and magazines.

Beyond that, there are thousands of products that do not use radio, as they believe that "eye appeal" or "appetite appeal" is critical or they require video for a product demonstration. So, in any of these cases, there is no radio budget at all. Radio gets about 7% of ad budgets, and is a suplemental medium, not a primary one for large advertisers.

I've already provided plenty of written evidence that shows that radio is discovering this lucrative market.

No, you have not. You have provided quotes and references to other people who are whining becase advertisers are not seeking 55+ advertisers with radio. There is absolutely no indication that radio is "discovering" the over 55 audience, because there is no money against 55+.

So far, you've given me nothing but pontification and personal opinion, neither of which amounts to much.

Stating that there are essentially no buys in the largest radio ad market in the US for 55+ in the last 18 months is hardly opinion. It is the experience of a company that has 5 stations, including the #1 and #2 and #7 25-54 station in the market.

 

[Chuck]

David, I'm not disputing any of your facts. At this point in time they are quite correct. You do seem to assume that you need to own a radio station to make money from the over 50 demo. I never suggested that. What I have said is if you can figure out a way to market the huge baby boom generation to advertisers, you stand to make a lot of money.

Perhaps that's done with format development. Maybe it's providing programming services to under-utilized stations in any size market. Maybe it involves catering to secondary and tertiary markets. Niche marketing can have its rewards. Keep in mind that sometimes the big glittery part of a business is NOT where all the money is. For instance in automobiles sales, the money is in used cars and financing. Dealers would go broke if they had to live on the margins in new car sales. Maybe what you have to do isn't glamorous, but it might pay a lot of bills.

I don't profess to have the answers. If I did have the silver bullet, I sure as hell wouldn't be posting how to do it on an Internet news group. I can tell you that I have made a very good living by identifying what someone was not doing, and providing something to fill that gap. With the graying of the boomers, I see a gap about the size of Grand Canyon on the immediate horizon.

You may have already found your niche in Hispanic Broadcasting. That’s great, but you shouldn’t discourage other people from thinking beyond what is possible. You might find yourself working for them one day.

 

[dbdigital]

And how does a sales manager for a St. Louis station know more than companies like Proctor and Gamble that spend hundreds of millions finding out who the consumers are and how they behave?

Has it occurred to anyone that she might know something they don't want to acknowledge? She could be right. Lots of business screw up big time by sticking to their "we've always done it that way philosophy. It's also nothing new that huge corporations do idiotic things which cost them (and their shareholders) lots of money. Railroads thought they ran trains and ignored the fact that they really were in the transportation business. How about "New Coke?" Have you bought a Betamax recently? Or maybe an Edsel? Big business does not always have its finger on the pulse of the American public.

Perhaps he next time they have a colonoscopy, the doctor will figure out where their heads have been hiding.

The fact remains that there are essentially no agency buys for 55+, and the most requested demo is now 18-49 and not the traditional 35-54.

Undoubtedly, you are factually correct. The question is, "Is this a good idea?" I think you are about five years my junior, but from my vantage point, I'm from a generation who pushed the envelope any time we could. Sometimes we did it successfully, sometimes not. Like the Frank Sinatra song, we still like to do it "My Way." Most of my contemporaries do not intend to be anything like their parents in their retirement years. We seem to be healthier, and we even look younger. Most of us are not taking life lying down. I doubt that you will either. It seems like this is an opportunity to be a visionary, if you'll let it happen.

Of course, with DE if it hasn't been thought of by a programming or sales 'genius' in L.A. it isn't worth considering.

Although having been born and raised in the Los Angeles area, my job has taken me on assignments all over this great nation. Not only have I discovered that there are a lot of wonderful places to live in the U.S. (much better than L.A., IMHO), and a lot of great people but that innovation in media is coming from all over the country. This is especially true of radio. After all, didn't JACK come from Denver and Smooth Jazz from Chicago?

So if a sales manager in St. Louis thinks the 50+ demo is worth selling to, her expert opinion is just as credible as anyone's in a similar position in L.A.

I hate to be the one to break to the papalnuncio of radio, but L.A. is no longer the center of the media world.

db

 

[davideduardo]

Of course, with DE if it hasn't been thought of by a programming or sales 'genius' in L.A. it isn't worth considering.

As the highest billing market in the US, were there 55+ advertising campaigns, they would show up in LA. You may not understand it because you are not a radio person, but the higest volume of agency business is in the largest markets. Many times, agecy buys only cover the top 10 markets or the top 15 or top 25 or top 50 markets. So if there were to be agency 55+ buys, we'd see them in LA, NY, Chicago, Dallas, SF, Houston, etc. first.

Although having been born and raised in the Los Angeles area, my job has taken me on assignments all over this great nation. Not only have I discovered that there are a lot of wonderful places to live in the U.S. (much better than L.A., IMHO), and a lot of great people but that innovation in media is coming from all over the country. This is especially true of radio. After all, didn't JACK come from Denver and Smooth Jazz from Chicago?

No. Jack came from Canada. And Owen Leach and Frank Cody "invented" the format they later named "smooth jazz" for KTWV in LA. Later, since Westinghouse owned the service mark for "The Wave" Cody and Leach used the term "Smooth Jazz" for a station they were hired to put on in Chicacago, WNUA. But the format was developed by Cody and Leach (then owners of Broadcast Architecture) for KTWV.

So, neither of your observations is accurate... showing, perhaps, that your impressions on trying to find advertisers interested in over-55 consumers are flawed, as well.

So if a sales manager in St. Louis thinks the 50+ demo is worth selling to, her expert opinion is just as credible as anyone's in a similar position in L.A.

The problem is that she thinks the 55+ demo is salable, but there are no advertisers buying. In other words, she is whining about something that does not exist.

I hate to be the one to break to the papalnuncio of radio, but L.A. is no longer the center of the media world.

And that's why I can say that there are essentially no 55+ buys in any of our 17 markets, From Miami and NY to Houston and Dallas to LA and San Francisco.

 

[davideduardo]

David, I'm not disputing any of your facts. At this point in time they are quite correct. You do seem to assume that you need to own a radio station to make money from the over 50 demo. I never suggested that. What I have said is if you can figure out a way to market the huge baby boom generation to advertisers, you stand to make a lot of money.

Cox in Tampa has a 55+ station, WDUV, which has been #1 in the market for about a decade. It is, however, a horrible #14 in billing, with less than a third of the billing of the #1 station. And that's all local sales in a market that is pretty 55+ top-heavy. Only one FM in the market bills less. So if a 55+ format does so badly in Tampa, imagine it in Chicago or Des Moines.

The kind of advertisers that make the difference in billing come from agencies, and anyone who has sold agency knows, it is considered unethical to call on agency accounts directly... it will cost you money and generally irritate the account, which got an agency specifically so they did not have to deal with advertising, ad reps and such.

Perhaps that's done with format development. Maybe it's providing programming services to under-utilized stations in any size market.

The formats are pretty cut and dry... we have known what 55+ likes for a long time (and most of it is News / talk, oldies, AC, country, Urban AC, Spanish oldies, etc., already on the radio) so what the "missing formats" might be is known. The issue is that advertisers don't generally want 55+, definitely don't pay for them and get as many as they need with spillage from broader demo stations. There is no real need for a specific 55+ format, in fact, as 55+ uses radio as much as 45-54 and uses, mostly, the formats already on the radio.

Maybe it involves catering to secondary and tertiary markets. Niche marketing can have its rewards. Keep in mind that sometimes the big glittery part of a business is NOT where all the money is. For instance in automobiles sales, the money is in used cars and financing. Dealers would go broke if they had to live on the margins in new car sales. Maybe what you have to do isn't glamorous, but it might pay a lot of bills.

There is a misconception that the existing formats are not used by 55+ and that 55+ persons don't use radio. Neither is true. The poblem is entirely that the bulk of advertisers do not pay for 55+ listenership, and if they look at ratings, they look at the under-55 listenership.

I don't profess to have the answers. If I did have the silver bullet, I sure as hell wouldn't be posting how to do it on an Internet news group. I can tell you that I have made a very good living by identifying what someone was not doing, and providing something to fill that gap. With the graying of the boomers, I see a gap about the size of Grand Canyon on the immediate horizon.

Until advertisers find that advertising to persons over 55 produces a good return on investment, such efforts will be limited to a few direct accounts.

You may have already found your niche in Hispanic Broadcasting.

Just a clarification, but in most the markets I work in Hispanics are either all the listeners (Argentina, Puerto Rico, etc) or the largest group (in LA, for examplle, there are 42% Hispanics and only 25% non-Hispanic whites...). And we do multiple formats, with the only distinction that the formats are mostly in Spanish. That's not a niche.

That’s great, but you shouldn’t discourage other people from thinking beyond what is possible.

For the moment, there just is no revenue. Radio has little or no control over radio's share of budgets, and if folks like the RAB do get to se agency clients, it is to sell radio, not to sell over-the-hill radio formats.

You might find yourself working for them one day.

Never.