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Chuck said:DavidEduardo said:You might find yourself working for them one day.
Never.
Suit yourself....
Simply put, there is no money there, no light at the end of the tunnel, and no kind of music I have any personal interest in. I have been in radio in the Spanish language since I interned at Organización Radio Centro en Mexico City in 1963, and have worked in large Spanish speaking markets almost all through my career. The few cases where I briefly tried English radio for non-Hispanics I detested it; I was totally out of place culturally. I would barely recognize the big Frank Sinatra hits, and don't ever want to hear those I have heard again... give me the Corraleros de Majagual or Lucho Bermúdez, but not Glen Miller and Tony Bennett.
So the chances of my wanting to work in some English old-folks format are somewhere between zero and none. And, for the money, excitement and ability to do fun personality radio live all day, I will stay where I am.
D
dbdigital
Guest
This is my final entry on the topic. Yet another article, this one from the Miami Herald, discussing the power of the 50+ audience and their importance to radio.
I especially thought this quote was significant:
"Even so, seldom has this oldies-lovin' audience had such power. According to the U.S. Census, 50-plus households now control 41 percent of all discretionary income -- $1.7 trillion annually -- and represent one-third of the adult population at 68.2 million. By the 2030s, that number will swell to 115 million."
You can either believe the growing number of experts who recognize and are talking about the importance of this segment of the population or someone whose only apparent expertise is Latin music.
http://www.miamiherald.com/234/story/184764.html
db
I especially thought this quote was significant:
"Even so, seldom has this oldies-lovin' audience had such power. According to the U.S. Census, 50-plus households now control 41 percent of all discretionary income -- $1.7 trillion annually -- and represent one-third of the adult population at 68.2 million. By the 2030s, that number will swell to 115 million."
You can either believe the growing number of experts who recognize and are talking about the importance of this segment of the population or someone whose only apparent expertise is Latin music.
http://www.miamiherald.com/234/story/184764.html
db
dbdigital said:
Typical newspaper inaccuracy. Most 55+ do not listen to oldies. The prime format is news talk, followed by things like AC and country as well as Urban AC, Gospel, and smooth jazz. That "oldies loving" quote is priceless. In Miami, the oldies station is #5 in 55+, tied with one of the news talkers, and beaten by smooth jazz and only a few tenths above one of the AC stations. Only an average of 5% of the 55+ audience is listening to oldies at any given time. "Oldies loving" is hyperbole at its worst.
My expertise is in radio. And the fact is that there are essentially no 55+ buys coming out of agencies. The reason is the low return on investment advertisers get when addressing 55+ demos in any language, to any ethnicity and in any market in the US:
What David writes about agency media buying trends is true. Of course, with the kinds of multiples people are paying to purchase a radio station these days, I don't expect to see much change in the situation until media buyers are convinced to change their ways. An effort is currently underway.
Meanwhile, some folks in the +55 demo might be willing to buy an HD radio, if there was some great programming aimed at them. Many of these folks even remember what it's like to string up an antenna. However, most of these potential buyers don't see the value proposition.
Just going through the presets on my Roku Soundbridge (Internet radio) device, I have hundreds of excellent pre-programmed choices at the push of a remote button.
This includes Adult Standards stations such as:
Clear Channels' Format Lab - Vegas Gold
KAAM 770 Dallas
KEZW 1430 Denver
KIXI 880 Seattle
KJUL 104.3 Las Vegas
Martini In The Morning - Los Angeles
WRFF 104.5-HD-2 Philadelphia
and many many many more, including foreign stations.
As for oldies stations:
Clear Channels' Format Lab - Cool Oldies
WCBS 101.1 New York
Howlin Oldies
KOMA 92.5 Oklahoma
KOOL 94.5 Phoenix
KRTH 101.1 Los Angeles
WRLL 1690 Chicago
WJMK 104.3-HD-2 Chicago
WMXJ 102.7 Miami
WNMB 900 North Myrtle Beach
WOGL 98.1 Philadelphia
WOMC 104.3 Detroit
and many many many more, including foreign stations.
There are also plenty of presets for big band/swing, classical, country classics, easy listening, all kinds of jazz from smooth to swing, old time radio, opera, soundtracks, talk and news.
Meanwhile, some folks in the +55 demo might be willing to buy an HD radio, if there was some great programming aimed at them. Many of these folks even remember what it's like to string up an antenna. However, most of these potential buyers don't see the value proposition.
Just going through the presets on my Roku Soundbridge (Internet radio) device, I have hundreds of excellent pre-programmed choices at the push of a remote button.
This includes Adult Standards stations such as:
Clear Channels' Format Lab - Vegas Gold
KAAM 770 Dallas
KEZW 1430 Denver
KIXI 880 Seattle
KJUL 104.3 Las Vegas
Martini In The Morning - Los Angeles
WRFF 104.5-HD-2 Philadelphia
and many many many more, including foreign stations.
As for oldies stations:
Clear Channels' Format Lab - Cool Oldies
WCBS 101.1 New York
Howlin Oldies
KOMA 92.5 Oklahoma
KOOL 94.5 Phoenix
KRTH 101.1 Los Angeles
WRLL 1690 Chicago
WJMK 104.3-HD-2 Chicago
WMXJ 102.7 Miami
WNMB 900 North Myrtle Beach
WOGL 98.1 Philadelphia
WOMC 104.3 Detroit
and many many many more, including foreign stations.
There are also plenty of presets for big band/swing, classical, country classics, easy listening, all kinds of jazz from smooth to swing, old time radio, opera, soundtracks, talk and news.
vsa said:
So you get already get hundreds or thousands of new stations, without HD radio.
Do you think you could do as well or better with HD radio, instead?
If I understand correctly, if I buy an HD radio and install a roof-mounted antenna, I "may" be able to pick up something called Pride (Gay) Radio on KBIG HD-2. I haven't bothered to see if it's available........WAIT. No, it is available online too. Whoopie?
Correction to KJUL above. It's now on 104.7, not 104.3.
I need an HD radio like I need a pager.
Correction to KJUL above. It's now on 104.7, not 104.3.
I need an HD radio like I need a pager.
vsa said:
Actually, I just got something that is a heck of a lot better. It's the Nokia N-800 hand-held tablet computer. It's small enough to fit comfortably in a shirt pocket. This thing is a fairly competent temporary replacement for a laptop computer. It's also a PDA, a music player, a camera, a phone using Skype and a wireless internet radio. It probably does a lot of other things I haven't discovered as yet.
In any case, it is a wi-fi enabled communications device. With no effort on my part, it found and connected to our wireless network and went to Google, where I entered my radio stations call letters. I clicked on the link and our web page opened up. Clicking on the "listen" link it started playing Dean Martin through its built in speakers or the included headphones. How cool is that?
Yes, you do need a Wi-Fi Internet connection, but that isn't too difficult to find. No, it won't replace my car radio, but I can see that this will be a constant travel companion. I bring this up simply because it is in the same price range as some of the better HD radios. There is also a cheaper version that costs less than most HD radios. If your budget tells you that you can have one or the other of these devices, I think a lot of people will choose something like this Nokia device. It is elegantly designed, easy to use and delivers a lot of bang for the buck. I like my Sangean HDT-1 tuner, but this thing really speaks to me (literally). I think devices like this will be the future. Maybe someone will figure out how to add a radio to its capabilities.
No, wait, it doesn't need a radio, since you can either play your own music, or listen to a streaming radio station. I think there might be a lesson there.
By the way VSA, you forgot KZQX ( www.kzqx.com ) in your list of standards stations that a Roku Internet radio can pick up. It works fine on mine. You might even like it.
Chuck, I didn't include KZQX in the list because it is not pre-programmed on my Soundbridge. YOU should get it listed after you register at:
http://www.radioroku.com
I have listened to KZQX before and think it ought to be listed.
As for your Nokia N-800, what a very cool device!
http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800
Now all you need is to create a mobile wifi hotspot in your vehicle with something like this below and your N-800 becomes a car radio too.
http://www.autonetmobile.com/wp/
http://www.radioroku.com
I have listened to KZQX before and think it ought to be listed.
As for your Nokia N-800, what a very cool device!
http://www.nseries.com/products/n800/#l=products,n800
Now all you need is to create a mobile wifi hotspot in your vehicle with something like this below and your N-800 becomes a car radio too.
http://www.autonetmobile.com/wp/
vsa said:
At one time, the station was listed. I don't know what happened, but I guess I'll go and fix that. It shows up on my Roku radio, which I think is a very cool device. There certainly is a lot to listen to.
The portable wi-fi hot spot is a sign of things to come. Right now, I'm happy enough with my EVDO wireless card, but new things seem to come out every day, many of them at bargain basement prices. I think that is the main point. While radio seems to be spinning its wheels, competing technology is marching on. Even though I love radio, and even run a radio station, I can see that we'd better start thinking of ourselves as content providers rather than obsessing over the delivery method. There are an increasing number of options out there, with lots more on the way.
Today I was walking through the local Target store, which is not exactly a place I think of as High Tech. The surprise was how many really neat and innovative devices they have in stock. They didn't have any HD radios, but that didn't surprise me. There are no HD stations around here, so who’d want to buy a radio that gave no benefit. They do carry a full line of analog Tivoli and BA radios though, That did surprise me.
Chuck said:
Interestingly, today I drove in from Cali to Phoenix, and got the PHX full C's (the ones on South Mountain) over 80 miles from Downtown Phoenix, miles outside the MSA, with full HD capture, no fallback to analog. The quality with my factory HD receiver was astounding compared with the analog signal.
vsa said:
Careful vsa – you’re going to let the cat outta’ the bag... “HD” Radios ARE actually selling within a few city-blocks of the Sears Tower in Chicago near Lincoln Park and Halstead Ave. You can hear “Pride FM” there [sometimes] on 103.5 HD-2. On a recent trip into the city from O’Hare, I was treated to that delightful little data stream... In-and-out-in-and-out-in-and-out [no innuendo intended
] along the Kennedy Expressway within full view of the WKSC antenna on the very JVC “HD” auto-radio Len14043 speaks so highly of.And to think that I tolerated the likes of Home Security; a flight change at the dreaded Atlanta airport; and all the maladies associated with air-transportation to hear the club version of Captain Hollywood Project’s “More and More” [intermittently] at 48kbps... I’d much rather hear “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” [all 17-minutes of it] on a 1kw AM station at 1490 8)
hipporadio said:vsa said:
Careful vsa – you’re going to let the cat outta’ the bag... “HD” Radios ARE actually selling within a few city-blocks of the Sears Tower in Chicago near Lincoln Park and Halstead Ave. You can hear “Pride FM” there [sometimes] on 103.5 HD-2. On a recent trip into the city from O’Hare, I was treated to that delightful little data stream... In-and-out-in-and-out-in-and-out [no innuendo intended
And to think that I tolerated the likes of Home Security; a flight change at the dreaded Atlanta airport; and all the maladies associated with air-transportation to hear the club version of Captain Hollywood Project’s “More and More” [intermittently] at 48kbps... I’d much rather hear “In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida” [all 17-minutes of it] on a 1kw AM station at 1490 8)
HD radio may be a hit in the gay community? So it might be safe to say that if you're an HD radio buyer, the clerk at Radio Shack or wherever may have cause to think that you might be of a certain sexual orientation? The kiss of death.
DavidEduardo said:
Just curious, but don't you get their analog signals that far (or even farther)? As I recall on my drives along I-10, you can hang on to a Phoenix station for quite a way. I can pick up most of the bigger Dallas analog stations on my car radio for about 100 miles – and sometimes more - as I drive east.
Not having an HD radio in my car, I'm not sure how their HD signal holds out under the same circumstances, but I've had friends tell me that Houston HD signals seem to work about 75 miles or so in their car. The problem is they don't seem to be able to penetrate buildings or other structures. I can pick up an HD signal just fine from 60 miles away when my tuner is connected to an outside antenna, but with the folded dipole that came with it, I can only get the station's analog signal inside my home.
D
dbdigital
Guest
And yet another article on the 50+ demo, this time by Dave Van Dyke, President/CEO of Bridge Ratings. He discovered that the Baby Boomers (those born between 1945 and 1964) are no longer the cohesive group of consumers they were once thought to be.
“Today’s media companies can better understand their target audiences with this new Bridge Ratings data,” Van Dyke explained. “To know, for example, that the 43 – 52 year old Boomer is currently less loyal to traditional media than their older counterparts is greatly beneficial in determining strategy and tactics as these companies navigate the future of their businesses and their consumers. Boomers are a more complex group of consumers than we previously thought.”
This report is available at: www.bridgeratings.com
It's obvious that "progressive" advertisers are no longer ignoring this demographic but have them clearly in their sights. After all, they are as much a part of their future as young adults and the 12+ demo.
db
“Today’s media companies can better understand their target audiences with this new Bridge Ratings data,” Van Dyke explained. “To know, for example, that the 43 – 52 year old Boomer is currently less loyal to traditional media than their older counterparts is greatly beneficial in determining strategy and tactics as these companies navigate the future of their businesses and their consumers. Boomers are a more complex group of consumers than we previously thought.”
This report is available at: www.bridgeratings.com
It's obvious that "progressive" advertisers are no longer ignoring this demographic but have them clearly in their sights. After all, they are as much a part of their future as young adults and the 12+ demo.
db
dbdigital said:
They are not buying radio... there are not enough buys in the major markets for 55+ to sustain even a short program, let alone a whole station.
Why not? What is special about the radio medium that precludes 55+ buys, other than the fact that advertisers aren't interested in reaching this demo through radio? If you came up with a format that hit straight across the target the advertiser was trying to reach, why wouldn't it work?
semoochie said:
I say they are not buying radio because I do not work with TV stations or magazines or newspapers so I do not know the how many senior-targeted budgets there are in other media. The fact is, advertiser do not use radio for 55+, so there is no money to go after.
The background is that advertisers tell their agencies where the money demos are, and they are not aszking for 55+. It´s like beer... 90% of beer sales is to 9% of the beer consumers. So where do you think the beer companies spend their money?
D
dbdigital
Guest
DavidEduardo said:
That's funny, because the item I quoted actually appeared in Friday's LA Radio. I doubt Don Barrett would cite something that only had meaning to print or television.
Also, it isn't logical for a research firm like Bridge, which makes its money providing data to businesses like radio, to study a group that has been written off as dead.
The point is, I've provided reference after reference on this thread which shows that advertisers are interested in the 50+ market or are showing an interest in it, including those who work in radio, while you have provided nothing but outmoded personal opinion which, frankly, isn't worth spit.
If radio isn't considering the purchasing power of this demographic then it's about time they do.
db
DavidEduardo said:
David, are agencies buying any market other than New York and LA, with everyone else kind of "along for the ride," regardless of age demo? I'm guessing that this is so only based on advertising I see and hear, with only a few products such as pickup trucks and cheap beer being exceptions.
It's always sounded to me like advertisers and their agencies (NYC and LA based) are essentially targetting people like themselves. If other people buy their products, so much the better, but they're not really being advertised to. McDonald's, General Motors, and Heineken will certainly take money from Aunt Molly & Uncle Fred in Omaha, but they don't advertise to them.
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