Radio Days

[joebtsflk1]

The radio pros who participate on the R.D. boards have a wealth of knowledge and I truly have learned a good deal from the, especially years ago when civility ruled. I don’t like broad brushing as this doesn’t apply to all the radio pros or avid listeners. Remember your school days where you handed in a homework paper only to have it returned to you filled with red marks? You felt demoralized. It’s not a great way to learn either. Then there were teachers who gave you credit and acknowledged what you did correctly. They also included what you did wrong. That method is more conducive to learning. I’m still learning about a lot of things to include radio. Differences of opinion are healthy and they make reading the posts interesting. However, "red marking" certain sentences or paragraphs while never citing any type of agreement is not the way to go. In business, any manager who only coaches employees on negative things will probably have a lot of turnover.

I don't always read Fred Jacobs' blog every day, but today's posting seems appropriate to add here: "The Smartest Guy In The Room Is..."

At the same time, I don't think Mr. Eduardo was being overly harsh in his comments and minor corrections of fact. Nit-picky, maybe, but please remember where he's coming from. He has made available online the broadest assortment of historical radio documentation I know. It literally is like the big stacks of books that used to be in university libraries. When the libraries starting ditching this material, he rescued it. That doesn't even touch his five decades in radio broadcasting.

That said, I will call out and have called out arrogant and condescending attitudes on this board from people with far more experience in the field than myself. I've had just enough experience and background to be considered dangerous.

Please keep posting. I've enjoyed your observations.

 

[John FL]

I don't think Mr. Eduardo was being overly harsh in his comments and minor corrections of fact. Nit-picky, maybe, but please remember where he's coming from. He has made available online the broadest assortment of historical radio documentation I know. It literally is like the big stacks of books that used to be in university libraries. When the libraries starting ditching this material, he rescued it. That doesn't even touch his five decades in radio broadcasting.

Please keep posting. I've enjoyed your observations.

I very much appreciate your comments. Sometimes, I don't follow my own rules of the road. In my career, some very wise mentors always reminded me to not react immediately upon seeing or hearing something (at work). Wait a little bit and cool off. I in turn gave that advice to others. I saw the comments first thing in the morning. While that's not an excuse, I could have made points without sounding like I was on a soap box. Mr. Eduardo does know radio.

There's a lot to discuss regarding the 1980's. The next post will be Jacksonville specific. I have lots of questions so I hope those in the know will help fill in the gaps. What happened back then had, I believe, long lasting inpacts for years to come.

 

[davideduardo]

At the same time, I don't think Mr. Eduardo was being overly harsh in his comments and minor corrections of fact. Nit-picky, maybe, but please remember where he's coming from. He has made available online the broadest assortment of historical radio documentation I know. It literally is like the big stacks of books that used to be in university libraries. When the libraries starting ditching this material, he rescued it. That doesn't even touch his five decades in radio broadcasting.

I appreciate the analysis. You are correct; I was not trying to be harsh.

My feeling is that all the "little" errors of fact, particularly in the area of when most music listening shifted to FM and why, caused the post I dissected to reach a conclusion that was not supported by evidence.

In particular, the "failure" of AM (and that term is of debatable use in this context) to remain competitive depended, in part, on the speed with which AM music stations upgraded to AM stereo. Were it a perfect world without Leonard Kahn, that would have happened in 1977 or early 1978. Due to the legal issues raised by Mr. Kahn's suit, it took 5 years longer and by then essentially all the under-55 music listening was on FM.

AM stations in that period cut commercial loads, cleaned up on-air presentations and did extensive marketing... but the better coverage of FMs and their superior audio and lack of static and noise as well as the expanded format variety just could not be countered no matter how smart the managers and owners were.

 

[TheBigA]

tn 1981, it was a different WABC. It was as if the life was sucked out of it. Johnny Donovan was once again the guy on the air. Gone was the on air excitement, all those jingles and great music. The station wasn’t contemporary anymore. It was all very bland. In less than one year, they flipped to talk.

Why? In 1980, they were being targeted by WNBC and Don Imus. Imus won the morning ratings race, and within a year, WNBC was beating WABC, and the latter flipped to talk. But the writing was on the wall 5 years earlier. WNBC hired Howard Stern from WWDC, brought in Wolfman Jack for nights, and that kept music on AM for a few more years. But in 1988, NBC got out of the radio business, and the Big 66 became WFAN, an all-sports talk station. Imus stayed there doing talk for 20 more years. Music on AM was over.

 

[John FL]

Why? In 1980, they were being targeted by WNBC and Don Imus. Imus won the morning ratings race, and within a year, WNBC was beating WABC, and the latter flipped to talk. But the writing was on the wall 5 years earlier. .

I know all that but I may not have been clear in my comparisons. The WABC I visited in 1973 was a hub of activity and in the studio, it was rockin'...literally. Lots of energy etc. My visit in 1981 was way different from my first visit. Also, what you and the readers wouldn't know is I made the switch to WKTU in 1978 as so many did. Disco was the rage and I went right along with it. I moved away in 1979. There was no streaming then. For the most part, I hadn't listened to WABC in 3 years from '78 to the time I visited in '81. Certainly understandable why I thought the station was so different.

On a side note, Wolfman Jack wasn't making a dent in WABC's ratings. Nighttime audience was eroding with Cousin Brucie because of mounting FM challenges. Bruce saw a way out and a financial killing by moving to WNBC. He got WABC to reopen his contract under the guise of renogtiating his contract for bonus incentives based on rating points etc.. Bruce replaced Wolfman Jack who didn't last long at all, maybe a year. George Michael from WFIL in Philadelphia was brought in to replace Bruce Morrow. In the short time, George was there, I thought he did a great job but as you say music on AM was over but in the case of ABC, they put up a good fight. Those later 70s years were history making which we're still talking about now.

George's first show on WABC with a bonus of Johnny Donovan filling in for Dan Ingram on the below scoped aircheck. It's one of my fav airchecks because it represented so much change and the fight to stay competitive. .Lots can be said about this. George talks excessively but that was the norm on WABC. Another interesting tidbit is they had a new sblock that ran for 20 minutes starting at 5:55 to 6:15. It was trimmed to 5 minutes. More music was now the strategy. Competition was fierce from FM to now WNBC. Interesting time for sure. I listened to that entire show. Cousin Bruceie didn't last long at night. He moved to middays. George held his own for 4 years...not bad! That Chicago "Beginnings" talk up was just classic...for the day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5h34hiJvhA

 

[TheBigA]

Bruce saw a way out and a financial killing by moving to WNBC.

A few years earlier, Cousin Brucie got into radio ownership. He and a partner bought WALL-AM in Middletown NY. Who was his business partner? Robert F.X. Sillerman. They started a station ownership company called Sillerman-Morrow. If the name Sillerman sounds familiar, years later he was a partner in Clear Channel radio. He was the financial mind behind CC's expansion, and their diversification into concert promotion, eventually leading to a company called Live Nation. But back in 1979, Sillerman & Morrow owned a few small radio stations in the northeast. The broker who sold them a lot of those early stations was a former WMCA Good Guy: Gary Stevens.

Now you know the rest of the story.

 

[John FL]

A few years earlier, Cousin Brucie got into radio ownership. He and a partner bought WALL-AM in Middletown NY. Who was his business partner? Robert F.X. Sillerman. They started a station ownership company called Sillerman-Morrow.

Now you know the rest of the story.

Now, I certainly do. Thanks for that info. I was aware of the Middletown purchase but not all the other dealings. In Rick Sklar's book, he wrote about how Bruce began neglecting his show. He was always on the phone on finances while the engineer tended the show. This is another radio question answered. Bruce Morrow wrote a book too and he blamed the shrinking playlist and little control of his show as reasons for lack of interest and wanting to leave. The truth shall set you free. Anyway, Bruce was overrated IMHO.

 

[TheBigA]

Bruce Morrow wrote a book too and he blamed the shrinking playlist and little control of his show as reasons for lack of interest. The truth shall set you free.

Typical complaint of someone who has aged out of the demo. The playlist didn't shrink...he just got older. When Bruce was closer to the age of his listeners, he enjoyed the music with them. He even hosted a local TV show, and sort of became the local version of Dick Clark. As he got older, the music was no longer relevant to his life. Teen music and teen issues weren't interesting to him any more. That's why he fit in better at WCBS-FM, and now at Sirius.

 

[CTListener]

Typical complaint of someone who has aged out of the demo. The playlist didn't shrink...he just got older. When Bruce was closer to the age of his listeners, he enjoyed the music with them. He even hosted a local TV show, and sort of became the local version of Dick Clark. As he got older, the music was no longer relevant to his life. Teen music and teen issues weren't interesting to him any more. That's why he fit in better at WCBS-FM, and now at Sirius.

And what he plays on his twice-weekly (I think) Sirius shows are mostly big, familiar hits of the '60s and early '70s, with little if any "deep" content. He gets to play an occasional '70s tune because he's a celebrity host; everyone else is limited to 1964-69, Sirius' definition of The Sixties. His playlist is even tighter than it was at WABC, proportionally speaking. If you check a WABC survey or a Billboard chart for any year Brucie is allowed to play music from, you'll find he's not playing the top 20 songs in any given week from that year. He may be enjoying what he's doing now, but he's still a tight-playlist jock, just as he was when he liked most of the songs he was playing in saturation rotation on WABC.

 

[TheBigA]

He may be enjoying what he's doing now, but he's still a tight-playlist jock, just as he was when he liked most of the songs he was playing in saturation rotation on WABC.

He likes those songs for the same reason his listeners like those songs: Because they bring him back to a great time in his life, when he was interviewing The Beatles, and everything was new. By the 1970s, he was getting into middle age, and teen music just wasn't any fun any more. Being a Top 40 jock isn't as much fun when your own kids have become the target audience. Plus as we said he was getting into station ownership, and saw the business side of radio. One of his contemporaries at WABC, Bob Lewis, was doing a more "adult" show on WABC-FM, and got to do that until it became WPLJ.

 

[John FL]

The first time I became aware of the city of Jacksonville was hearing or seeing Pat Boone mention he was born in Jax. I was always an inquisitive kid. Long before the internet, we had encyclopedias and of course there was the library. I remember looking Jacksonville up.

Pat’s big hit was “Love Letters in the Sand” but he had many hits. He was very popular in the 50’s and 60’s. Pat was also among a number of white artists who “covered” songs originally performed by black R&B performers back in the day. In 1997, he released an album “In a metal mood: No More Mr. Nice Guy” where he…get this….covered hard rock and heavy metal songs. I’ve never heard this album but now I’m curious. It sounds funny though.

“Spooky” was the first big hits for the group “Classics IV” in early 1968. This was one of many songs that I would hear for the first time and I knew would be a hit. I quickly bought the “45.” This was probably the second time I became aware of the city of Jacksonville as the group was founded there.

The Classics IV were credited with establishing a soft southern rock sound. I’ve never been one who got caught up in labeling music. If a song is great, I'll probably enjoy it. My allowance wasn’t much so I had to be picky as to what records I bought. It turned out I also bought “Stormy” and my favorite from them “Traces.”

Years later, I heard the Classics IV on an aircheck of the old 690 WAPE from the 70’s. It was common to hear older songs on hit music stations, but then again, they weren’t that old either. I’ve long believed 690 WAPE had all the elements of originating from a Top 20 market, not a middle market. Earlier, I posted an aircheck from WABC in 1974. WAPE’s music mix in the mid 70’s had a little more rock lean than WABC had. I truly believe WAPE was ahead of the power curve in a number of ways. While there were similar jingles, personality, and music overlap mirroring WABC, there was a little more pronounced rock lean. 690 WAPE had an FM vibe to it in my opinion. It was almost like they were were trying to do the "Drake" format. Maybe they were, now that I think about it.

The “Greasman” was hired for morning drive in 1975. Considering AM was already suffering from SOME audience erosion, his show was #1 and stayed that way for a number of years. (How long? I don’t know) The Greaseman was known as a “shock jock". This was not typical morning fare considering how conservative Jacksonville was, especially back in time. The decision makers at 690 WAPE took a calculated risk.

Perhaps, there was a lot more freedom to take a chance on something different than what I experienced growing up. WABC was the flagship station of the ABC Radio Network. They were run very conservatively. Just a few years prior, a song such as Paul Simon’s “Kodachrome” was edited to remove the word “crap” in the lyrics during morning drive and I believe middays as well. Afternoon drive and nighttime was unedited. Silly. But I remember that. There were a number of hit songs that never played on WABC because there was a chance that could be offensive.

Obviously, no matter how cutting edge and innovative an AM music station was, rough times lay ahead. There were many things about Jacksonville’s formats and programming that bewildered me for a long time. We all know radio underwent serious changes by time we got to the 80’s. I think I know the reason why, Jacksonville proved to be a tough market for certain formats.

Despite the tremendous success WAPE enjoyed in the 1970’s, there were events that changed listener impressions and perceptions. With the new decade, Rock 105 (WFYV) was born in 1980.

Rock 105 played heavily into a theory I've had about Jacksonville Radio. There's other things too. We’ll explore that upcoming starting with Rock 105..

 

[davideduardo]

The “Greasman” was hired for morning drive in 1975. Considering AM was already suffering from SOME audience erosion, his show was #1 and stayed that way for a number of years. (How long? I don’t know)

One of the reasons that the Greasman was put on WAPE was the considerable erosion of FM Top 40 national and even locally by 1975. WAPE wanted to compete on something other than music.

They had already noted that Miami's WMYQ (FM) had essentially blown WQAM (AM) out of the market and destroyed WFUN totally in '72. WRBQ in Tampa was challenging old-line WSUN for #1, having left WLCY way back in the dust. Birmingham's FM Top 40 had defeated AMer WSGN quite amply by 1975.

So what better move than to use talent as a magnet? WIVY (FM) was not quite tied with WAPE, but was taking a huge slice of its former listening.

By 1975, just a touch over 40% of Jacksonville local-station listening was already on FM, and the growth each year was significant. By fall of '77, WAPE was down to a 7.5 share and WIVY was over a 10 share and the market's FM share was 62% of listening. WIVY had a higher published spot rate than WAPE by that time, too.

WAPE was desperate to hold its numbers, as shown by the Spring, 1978, promotional activity that got it de-listed from the ratings (it would have been 3rd, and second in mornings but the book did not show those numbers).

If you rethink your position on what happened in the market, you'll see that it was not in the 80's but in the mid to late 70's that the total shift to FM for music took place. By the 80's, AM stations were just trying to figure out what to do. In Spring of '82, 7 of the top 10 stations were FM and the top rated AM, WCGL-1360 (ranked 6th), was the market's Black-targeted facility (soon to be beaten by WJAX-FM with its FM urban format).

One of the things affecting Jacksonville was the fact that, while it was the 57th market on population, it was 76th in revenue and 367th in profitability. In fact, from the early 70's well into the 80's, the sum of the profits and losses in the market was negative and many owners lost money on operations. When I was a manager with Metroplex, it was thought that only the top 5 stations in the market made a profit (aside from a couple of AMs that ran paid preachers and the Black targeted station).

 

[John FL]

One of the reasons that the Greasman was put on WAPE was the considerable erosion of FM Top 40 national and even locally by 1975. WAPE wanted to compete on something other than music.

So what better move than to use talent as a magnet? WIVY (FM) was not quite tied with WAPE, but was taking a huge slice of its former listening.

By 1975, just a touch over 40% of Jacksonville local-station listening was already on FM, and the growth each year was significant. By fall of '77, WAPE was down to a 7.5 share and WIVY was over a 10 share and the market's FM share was 62% of listening. WIVY had a higher published spot rate than WAPE by that time, too.

If you rethink your position on what happened in the market, you'll see that it was not in the 80's but in the mid to late 70's that the total shift to FM for music took place. By the 80's, AM stations were just trying to figure out what to do. In Spring of '82, 7 of the top 10 stations were FM and the top rated AM, WCGL-1360 (ranked 6th), was the market's Black-targeted facility (soon to be beaten by WJAX-FM with its FM urban format).

.

Wow! I have been seeking this kind of information for quite some time. This blows all the theories I had out of the water. A very big missing piece has been put in place.

I was concerned that Top 40 was not being properly represented. I knew about some formats such as:
WFYV (Rock 105) proved to be very popular. The country music format was represented with WQIK-FM, a station that was around, maybe starting on AM, since 1964. I was aware of another country station – WROO- but that may have come on the scene later – not sure.

In the early 80’s, WAPE-AM flipped to country. (Not sure of the year). However, I saw info that The Greaseman left Jax in 1982. Eventually, WAPE flipped again to a religious format. WAPE did return as CHR in 1986 on FM at its current dial position at 95.1. I figured there were lots of listener impressions that were negatively affected if years went by before a CHR format returned. Apparently, it was here all along.

The missing piece was WIVY-FM. I managed to hear some audio from that station from the mid 70’s. Wow…I had no idea that kind of FM station was on the air. What I heard sounded great.

What I find rather shocking is why didn’t WAPE get on FM much sooner? It seems like there was lots of lost potential there. What happened to WIVY? Did WAPE’s return to FM diminish their numbers?

WIVY was on 102.9 in the 70’s. How long did that station last? By the time I got to Jax in ‘97, I only remember a Mix format there and The Point (80’s format) Today, it's an Alternative station (I think)

The ratings information is very interesting as well as the revenue info. Now, it makes me wonder even more why the oldies station that was in the market didn’t evolve into a variety based classic station instead of a classic rock leaning one given Jax's history. That may involve another topic.

Thanks again, Mr. Eduardo. I wish I had access to the information you get your hands on! Very much appreciate your time and effort in this.

 

[TheBigA]

Now, it makes me wonder even more why the oldies station that was in the market didn’t evolve into a variety based classic station instead of a classic rock leaning one given Jax's history.

I thought Jacksonville was the home of Lynyrd Skynyrd and 38 Special, two heritage classic rock bands.

 

[John FL]

I thought Jacksonville was the home of Lynyrd Skynyrd and 38 Special, two heritage classic rock bands.

I get what you’re saying here. However, I was basing my comment on overall performance of prior formats in Jacksonville. It seems logical that if a community supported music variety in the past, then along with proper music testing, the odds should be favorable to do it again. Now, I’m not so sure.

It’s easy to place blame on radio management. But then I also acknowledge I don’t have all the facts. I’m not privy to actual ratings or billing. David’s analysis was very revealing to me. Comparing formats in other markets to Jacksonville doesn’t make sense either and it’s something I’ve done for a long time.

Hopefully the readers are finding this string interesting. I'm finding this very informative.

 

[TheBigA]

It seems logical that if a community supported music variety in the past, then along with proper music testing, the odds should be favorable to do it again.

Maybe, if everything else stays the same, including demographic make-up of the town, and the constantly moving target known as popular taste.

I've been following threads in other towns where older residents don't understand why their local radio stations aren't playing their kind of music, and when I look at the make-up of the population, it has shifted from a white majority to now an ethnic majority. That demographic shift will affect the formats of the city's radio stations. The other example I often give is Billy Ray Cyrus and Achy Breaky Heart. In it's day, this song was a huge, award-winning hit that sold almost 10 million albums. Now the song is radio poison. So things change, and things around us change, even if we believe we haven't changed, and just want to hear the songs we enjoyed in our youth. Radio stations program to the way things are now.

 

[CTListener]

The other example I often give is Billy Ray Cyrus and Achy Breaky Heart. In it's day, this song was a huge, award-winning hit that sold almost 10 million albums. Now the song is radio poison. .

Except on SiriusXM, where it is in regular rotation not only on Prime Country (80s/90s country) but on 90s on 9 (90s pop)! There are some experienced radio people there, and playlists have tightened significantly since the Sirius takeover. If the song is such a turnoff, why does it live on on a service that people pay for? What do Kid Kelly and other veteran mainstream FM folks there think Achy Breaky Heart adds to the appeal of the two channels it's getting regular spins on? A sop to the "play everything" crowd?

 

[TheBigA]

If the song is such a turnoff, why does it live on on a service that people pay for?

Because the people pay for it, the size of the audience doesn't matter. It's like non-commercial broadcast radio. If they tracked the usage of their music channels, and were able to ascertain audience response to songs the way on air stations can, they'd respond the way broadcast radio has. But their audience doesn't want them to behave the way broadcast radio does. That's why they pay. I've been analyzing some of their playlists (I'm currently studying Prime Country), and I'm appalled at some of the songs in their playlist. They are non-hits by non-stars that weren't played when they were currents.

 

[b-turner]

Sirius XM is not radio listening. The person listening to SiriusXM pays to receive the channels. That alone makes the Sirius/XM listener different from the radio listener. Sirius/XM reaches about 5% of the population. I understand based on typical radio ratings, Sirius/XM would have about a 1.7 (I call that pretty great in my book). About 90% of the rest of the population listens to over the air radio on a weekly basis.

The percentages reached, the fact one is paid and one is free and the stereotypical person willing to pay to listen all makes comparisons about like apples and oranges. I fact most of the satellite radio formats and music libraries are vastly different from the typical broadcast station. As I understand what I have seen, the typical Sirius XM listener does not consider themselves as radio listeners. Most say they pay to get what they can't find on over the air radio.

Thus, as to why Achy Breaky Heart can be in the rotation on Sirius XM but not in radio where it is considered poison, the above explains why.

 

[davideduardo]

Because the people pay for it, the size of the audience doesn't matter. It's like non-commercial broadcast radio. If they tracked the usage of their music channels, and were able to ascertain audience response to songs the way on air stations can, they'd respond the way broadcast radio has. But their audience doesn't want them to behave the way broadcast radio does. That's why they pay. I've been analyzing some of their playlists (I'm currently studying Prime Country), and I'm appalled at some of the songs in their playlist. They are non-hits by non-stars that weren't played when they were currents.

I'm a user of Prime Country, and am similarly amazed at some of the things on the channel. Since Prime Country somewhat mirrors much of the time I was in charge of WTNT, the major country station in Tallahasse, FL, where we did music research and were consulted by Rusty Walker, I have a fairly clear idea of what the hits were. An hour does not go by that Prime does not play two to three songs that make me go, "huh?".

I listen to XM/Sirius because I am in a market with fairly un-enjoyable local stations, but there are times I'd rather have 16 minutes of commercials an hour than some of the stiffs on many of the XM channels.