Radio Disney seems to be having a great 2009

[MikefromDelaware]

Radio Disney scored high with kids and moms in 2009.
That story can be found at:

http://www.rbr.com/radio/radio_ratings/18320.html

Aren't most of the Radio Disney affiliates on AM? Is it
possible that Disney might be helping AM and giving AM
an actual young audience?

 

[TheBigA]

In terms of national numbers, they're not spectacular. Most AM talk show hosts are beating those numbers.

But the great thing about kids is they don't have the inherent bias against AM that their parents have. They just want people that speak to them. It could be on short wave, and they've love it. Pioneers in children's TV discovered the same thing. It didn't matter what station or time they were on. The kids would seek them out.

Keep in mind that Disney mainly uses RD to market the company brand and sell the theme parks, cable channel, movies, and recorded music. It's a brilliant strategy, and it makes me wonder why no other company has thought to do it.

 

[KeithE4]

Radio Disney scored high with kids and moms in 2009.
That story can be found at:

http://www.rbr.com/radio/radio_ratings/18320.html

Aren't most of the Radio Disney affiliates on AM? Is it
possible that Disney might be helping AM and giving AM
an actual young audience?

How many of those listeners are via radio (all but 3 being AM), and how many are on Sirius/XM, iTunes, cable, or online? I'll venture a guess that most of it is a combination of the latter four.

Is Radio Disney helping the AM band at all? I'll guess "no." If what I've heard over the years is true, they don't make enough profit on their own to even cover their huge electric bills for the transmitters, several of which run 50 kW. Plus, most of those stations are lower powered, about 2/3 are at 1230 or higher on the dial, and/or are so directional that they don't cover their respective markets - even the 50 kWers like KDIS, KMIK, and WQEW. Remember, this is one network that absolutely needs nighttime coverage (the kids are in school during the day, after all) - something they aren't getting on most of their AM stations.

Not that they have to make a dime. Radio Disney is essentially a 24 hour informercial (OK, one that kids find entertaining) for Disney products, Disney movies, Disney recording artists, ad nauseum. The Mickey Mouse Outfit makes their money from the sales of the aforementioned products. My guess is that most of the network's operating costs come from those sales, although I believe they do have some paying ads as well. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

But in any case, their AM radio service sounds like it's just an expensive afterthought. Do they show up in the ratings anywhere?

 

[MikefromDelaware]

You make some excellent points. What I don't get, is why does Disney keep all those AM stations if no listens or the sales of all the Disney stuff doesn't benefit by Radio Disney on AM? Think of all the red ink they'd save which would make their profits higher if they sold off all those AM stations. My guess is, that some how the bean counters in the Magic Kingdom get tax breaks as a loss for those AM stations, or those AM stations actually do make them enough money or generate enough sales for the bottom line that they keep them, even though they may not have the ratings as other AM stations (say the 1st and second tier talkers in each market). Maybe, as with sport talk, that quite often, in many markets, gets a generally lower rating than other talkers, but is prized by advertisers for the rare young male audience it generates. So even though the ratings are lower, those advertisers will take even those fewer prized young male listeners over the higher rated 50+ male audience on Rush's stations. Well maybe those few young kids are as prized by advertisers as the young males of Sports Talk, helping to make Radio Disney on AM at least survive. Obviously, no one from Radio Disney or Disney Inc is going to tell how it really works. So the speculation of us radio geeks is probably is as good as it's going to get.

 

[michael hagerty]

You make some excellent points. What I don't get, is why does Disney keep all those AM stations if no listens or the sales of all the Disney stuff doesn't benefit by Radio Disney on AM? Think of all the red ink they'd save which would make their profits higher if they sold off all those AM stations.

According to the article, 22 million people over the age of 6 listen to Radio Disney. So "if no one listens" really doesn't apply.

And the overhead is pretty low at each station...a GM, a couple of sales folks, a production guy...maybe someone to do traffic...though that could be hubbed...the rest just comes down from the satellite. So they could in fact be making a buck or two on a pure broadcast model.

Disney itself is the beneficary of any profit on the stations it owns, and it gets syndication fees from the Radio Disney stations owned by other broadcasters, as well as the revenue from national advertising from sponsors other than Disney. It's probably black ink.

But more importantly, I think the Mouse views Radio Disney as a promotion expense for all its other operations (Disney Channel, ToonDisney, music, movies, parks, resorts, cruise lines). It's a 24/7 promo that reaches their target audience...kids who want all things Disney and moms who have the money to buy them (if only to quiet the pleas from the back seat after every mention of Disney World/Disneyland/Hannah Montana/Demi Lovato and the latest movie "on DVD and Blu-Ray Tuesday!") and are grateful that someone has created (largely) inoffensive programming for their children.

In terms of reach and frequency, an equivalent amount of advertising would probably cost a lot more.

And, unlike most formats, a new crop of listeners discovers the station every day, and will as long as there are kids and Disney is a brand they like.

As to whether Radio Disney helps the AM band by bringing younger listeners: No.

My kids were rabid Radio Disney listeners...but there was nothing else on the AM band they cared about. And when they hit the age where "Disney" was no longer cool (it's like falling off a cliff...happens over lunch somewhere around 12 or 13)....that was that. Off to alternative and CHR on FM. Occasionally, when everyone else is in a stopset, one of them will punch the button to AM, dial up Radio Disney and say "did it always sound this crappy?"...and go back to FM.

But for 8 or 9 years, they were there...hearing all the Disney acts of the moment along with an occasionally inspired mix of oldies (Elvis and Queen). Old or new, AM or FM, mono or stereo, they were too young to care...it just entertained them.

 

[TheBigA]

As to whether Radio Disney helps the AM band by bringing younger listeners: No.

I think that addresses a myth that unless young people are raised on radio, they'll never listen. People do what's easy, convenient, and suits their purpose. If radio does that for them at some point, they'll listen. If not, they won't.

 

[KFNNradioFan]

With Citadel in bankruptcy, perhaps the Radio Disney conglomerate will soon be sold to individual mom and pops . . . who can choose whether or not to continue with the syndicated programming . . .

That brings up a second question for another thread. What happens with the ABC Syndication Division and hosts such as Brinker, Hannity, Levin . . .

 

[davideduardo]

With Citadel in bankruptcy, perhaps the Radio Disney conglomerate will soon be sold to individual mom and pops . . . who can choose whether or not to continue with the syndicated programming . . .

Citadel has nothing to do with Radio Disney, and Citadel is not, yet, in bankruptcy.

 

[w9wi]

Is Radio Disney helping the AM band at all? I'll guess "no." If what I've heard over the years is true, they don't make enough profit on their own to even cover their huge electric bills for the transmitters, several of which run 50 kW.

...

Not that they have to make a dime. Radio Disney is essentially a 24 hour informercial (OK, one that kids find entertaining) for Disney products, Disney movies, Disney recording artists, ad nauseum.

...

But in any case, their AM radio service sounds like it's just an expensive afterthought. Do they show up in the ratings anywhere?

It's hard for me to imagine a company reaching, and staying, the size of Disney by throwing their money away. It seems obvious to me that Disney believes the radio stations bring more money into the company than is spent to operate them. They might have run them as an experiment for a year or two. Today, Radio Disney is too old to be an experiment.

Look at it this way... The first commercial broadcasting station went on the air in 1920. The first sale of airtime to an advertiser happened in 1926. There had to be some reason besides commercial time sales that these early stations expected to make money from radio.

Today, our employers are middlemen. Someone wants their product/service announced on radio/TV; they have to go through us to do it.

In the early days of broadcasting, this middleman didn't exist. If you wanted your product/service announced on radio, you built a station.

So really, Radio Disney is a throwback. A throwback to the days where stations existed to sell their owner's products, not someone else's.

IMHO the only reason "direct" commercial radio ever went away was because stations learned selling airtime was more profitable than hawking your own goods/services. Today, with airtime sales slow on many stations, could we be returning to a pre-1926 scenario, on the more marginal (usually AM) stations?

 

[quadraphonic]

I was thinking that same thing, w9wi. It's a throwback.

 

[KeithE4]

It's hard for me to imagine a company reaching, and staying, the size of Disney by throwing their money away. It seems obvious to me that Disney believes the radio stations bring more money into the company than is spent to operate them. They might have run them as an experiment for a year or two. Today, Radio Disney is too old to be an experiment.

Look at it this way... The first commercial broadcasting station went on the air in 1920. The first sale of airtime to an advertiser happened in 1926. There had to be some reason besides commercial time sales that these early stations expected to make money from radio.

Actually, I believe the first ad was in 1922 or '23, but I'm being picky. I get what you're saying. But many of the early broadcasters were either radio manufacturers (Westinghouse, Crosley, GE, et al), newspapers (Chicago Tribune and many, many others), department stores (Bambergers, Wanamakers, Gimbels) that sold radios. They had a vested interest in making sure that people bought radios.

Disney doesn't have that interest. They want to make sure that kids buy Disney toys, watch Disney movies and TV shows, buy or download songs by Disney recording artists, and that Mommy and Daddy take them to Disney theme parks. They don't sell radios, iPods, or computers. This is why Radio Disney isn't just on Antique Modulation. They are also on the web, iTunes, cable, and satellite radio - they need to be everywhere.

I still maintain (at least until I see something that says otherwise) that most Radio Disney listening is on something other than radio, with the probable exception of Mommy's SUV when driving the kids to school or the mall. How many kids between the ages of 6 and 12 have ever even heard of AM radio? Maybe a few, especially if they're developing an interest in sports, but I'll guess it's a small percentage.

Today, our employers are middlemen. Someone wants their product/service announced on radio/TV; they have to go through us to do it.

In the early days of broadcasting, this middleman didn't exist. If you wanted your product/service announced on radio, you built a station.

That went away in the '30s when network radio took off. The big manufacturers', newspapers', and department stores' stations survived, but the small stations owned by the Joe Blow's Hardware and Radio Parts Emporiums of the world were gone by then.

So really, Radio Disney is a throwback. A throwback to the days where stations existed to sell their owner's products, not someone else's.

IMHO the only reason "direct" commercial radio ever went away was because stations learned selling airtime was more profitable than hawking your own goods/services. Today, with airtime sales slow on many stations, could we be returning to a pre-1926 scenario, on the more marginal (usually AM) stations?

That could happen again. Could we see the Colon Blow Radio Network with 200 stations all carrying the same infomercial at the same time, 24/7? ;D Wouldn't surprise me, but I don't think there would be much of an audience. Just like I think there really isn't much of an audience for Radio Disney on AM radio compared with the other media that it's on. Again, It'd be interesting to see some facts and figures as to which RD medium is listened to the most.

 

[w9wi]

Actually, I believe the first ad was in 1922 or '23, but I'm being picky. I get what you're saying. But many of the early broadcasters were either radio manufacturers (Westinghouse, Crosley, GE, et al), newspapers (Chicago Tribune and many, many others), department stores (Bambergers, Wanamakers, Gimbels) that sold radios. They had a vested interest in making sure that people bought radios.

Disney doesn't have that interest. They want to make sure that kids buy Disney toys, watch Disney movies and TV shows, buy or download songs by Disney recording artists, and that Mommy and Daddy take them to Disney theme parks. They don't sell radios, iPods, or computers. This is why Radio Disney isn't just on Antique Modulation. They are also on the web, iTunes, cable, and satellite radio - they need to be everywhere.

I still maintain (at least until I see something that says otherwise) that most Radio Disney listening is on something other than radio, with the probable exception of Mommy's SUV when driving the kids to school or the mall. How many kids between the ages of 6 and 12 have ever even heard of AM radio? Maybe a few, especially if they're developing an interest in sports, but I'll guess it's a small percentage.

I guess I don't see where newspapers got into radio to promote the sale of radios. Seems to me they did it to promote the sale of newspapers. (and by extension, the sale of advertising *in the papers*) The distinction I'm trying to draw is between using a station you own to sell something you make, compared to the more common today process of using a station to sell airtime to someone else so that someone else can use it to sell something they make. Radio Disney -- and the early-20s broadcasters -- fall into the first category.

I fully believe the majority of Radio Disney listening is on something other than radio. (and that may well amortize most if not all of the production costs) But I have to believe Disney feels the radio stations are selling enough Disney product to at least cover the cost of operating the transmitters.

So really, Radio Disney is a throwback. A throwback to the days where stations existed to sell their owner's products, not someone else's.

IMHO the only reason "direct" commercial radio ever went away was because stations learned selling airtime was more profitable than hawking your own goods/services. Today, with airtime sales slow on many stations, could we be returning to a pre-1926 scenario, on the more marginal (usually AM) stations?

That could happen again. Could we see the Colon Blow Radio Network with 200 stations all carrying the same infomercial at the same time, 24/7? ;D Wouldn't surprise me, but I don't think there would be much of an audience. Just like I think there really isn't much of an audience for Radio Disney on AM radio compared with the other media that it's on. Again, It'd be interesting to see some facts and figures as to which RD medium is listened to the most.

What I'm trying to argue is that it did happen again, that's what Radio Disney is.

Whether it will happen with anyone else remains to be seen.

There's a big distinction between an all-infomercial station and the early-20s/Disney today model. To wit, both Disney and the early-20s stations provided entertainment or information along with the promotional material.

 

[davideduardo]

It's hard for me to imagine a company reaching, and staying, the size of Disney by throwing their money away. It seems obvious to me that Disney believes the radio stations bring more money into the company than is spent to operate them.

Yep. It's about the company, not about selling Disney T Shirts and such. I've talked with some Radio disney folks in the past, and the concept is about branding... keeping the Disney name in the forefront and attached to the images they desire to have. In a sense, this is the same thing that drives ESPN radio... it enhances the overall ESPN brand and makes it ubiquitous in the sports world.

The marketing values associated with Disney, such as family entertainment, etc., are probably considered a key element when any product, whether it be a new movie or a new amusement part, is launched. So enhancing the brand is worth lots of money, even if the radio stations lose.

 

[KeithE4]

I guess I don't see where newspapers got into radio to promote the sale of radios. Seems to me they did it to promote the sale of newspapers. (and by extension, the sale of advertising *in the papers*) The distinction I'm trying to draw is between using a station you own to sell something you make, compared to the more common today process of using a station to sell airtime to someone else so that someone else can use it to sell something they make. Radio Disney -- and the early-20s broadcasters -- fall into the first category.

Yes, you are correct. Newspaper-owned stations had a different agenda, and that was, of course, to sell more newspapers. That sounds like something more akin to what you are saying about Radio Disney - the stations existed to sell the owners' non-radio-related product.

 

[oldiesfan6479]

The first "stopset" on radio was on August 28, 1922, airing on
WEAF New York (now WFAN).

One spot, not six minutes of twelve spots including three for
competing car dealers. :

The ad was for Hawthorne Court (apartments) in Jackson Heights,
which begs the question "if you lived there, would you be home
by now?" or would you be stuck in "...a traffic jam in Harlem that's
backed up to Jackson Heights..."? Oooh! Oooh! ;D

 

[TheBigA]

One spot, not six minutes of twelve spots including three for
competing car dealers. :

You might check on the length of that one spot. This was not a conventional radio station, playing hit songs with DJs. At the time, it was owned by AT&T, and it was run like a brokered station today.

 

[travisl5678]

maybe they should put on other programs while the kids are in school 9am-3pm

 

[soundsandsports]

In order for Radio Disney not to be the next "Air America", first they have to expand to fairly populated cities without a station like Nashville, TN and Columbus, OH, just to name a few. Their mainstream satellite competitors, the 24 hour music formats like "Today's Best Hits" and "Your Music Your Station" are just about everywhere. WQEW does a good job on its own covering most of the east coast and parts of the midwest, but someone already said they can't cover all of the country during the day.

Second, they have to tweak the playlist. These Radio Disney affiliates are basically going up against a combonation of 4, 5, or even 6 Top 40, Hot AC, Rhythmic 40, or Urban Contemporary stations in the big markets and 2, 3 or 4 of said stations in the mid-majors. Even 1 on 1 they can't take down a CHR. Besides, "all Disney all the time" is not what the kids are listening to these days. I'd say play about 5 Disney songs an hour and 12 songs total in each hour.

Finally, the network needs to be "on the ground" getting the word out about themselves. Believe it or not, not everyone has heard of Radio Disney. A weekly live remote from one of the affiliates should do.

The network was a good idea but the execution of said idea is marginly good at best.

 

[davideduardo]

In order for Radio Disney not to be the next "Air America", first they have to expand to fairly populated cities without a station like Nashville, TN and Columbus, OH, just to name a few.

The are reducing stations in small market like those you mention, and focusing on web coverage there. Radio is a supplement.

WQEW does a good job on its own covering most of the east coast and parts of the midwest,

WQEW has a hard time covering all the NY metro at its very high frequency; nobody, particularly the 6-11 demo Disney is after, will look for it at night out of the market. WQEW is directional away from the West, so it is not a good night option anyway.

Second, they have to tweak the playlist. These Radio Disney affiliates are basically going up against a combonation of 4, 5, or even 6 Top 40, Hot AC, Rhythmic 40, or Urban Contemporary stations in the big markets and 2, 3 or 4 of said stations in the mid-majors. Even 1 on 1 they can't take down a CHR. Besides, "all Disney all the time" is not what the kids are listening to these days. I'd say play about 5 Disney songs an hour and 12 songs total in each hour.

They are not competing with CHR et. al. Radio Disney is intended to reinforce the Disney brand in it target of under 12 kids.

 

[DeadElvis]

As someone who has young children...

It has been interesting watching RD evolve over the past few years. When I was first exposed to it, the station existed on a diet of dumbed-down versions of top-40 hits, and a few songs by in-house artists. Now, the equation is reversed. Most of what you hear comes from the stable of artists that Disney has created. It's all about synergy with the TV network. And, the TV network is about synergy with all the other products and platforms.

Miley Cyrus? Jonas Brothers? All creations of RD. And, there are many, many others.

As far as being on AM? That's just one of the conduits to the content. My 11-year-old daughter -- without my help -- downloaded a Radio Disney app for her iPod Touch. She docks it, and listens to her heart's content. To kids like her, this is no big deal; that's just how things work in her world. As long as she has WiFi, she has Radio Disney.

Sadly, she has learned that it is also available on my XM. Dang.

DE