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Radio Equalizer: More Accurate Ratings "Crush" KGO

"It's likely your attitude is why younger people don't listen to you. If you hate and disrespect them, they will ruturn the favor, amply."


Well......after that comment I am going to the Internets and will do the Google to see if there is a ute tube of me standing on my porch screaming at youngsters to "get off my lawn!!!" Then I will ruturn to this board. Maybe a nap first.
 
Lkeller said:
According to the "PPM Winners" thread next door, KIOI is looking a lot better lately, coming in second among "adults.".
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Okay, KIOI is a bad example. But surely there is an FM that isn't making it that KGO could buy or LMA soon. They could have been in line when Bonneville wanted to get out of SF. It's not as if sales and swaps aren't possible.

Also, David, going to your point about KOIT being more or less an "Oldies" station: If you're talking about stations that have older music as a significant part of their format (combined Oldies, Classic Hits, Classic Rock, or whatever you want to call it), there are 4 stations in the Top 10 that fit the category - KOIT, KSAN, KFOG, and KISQ.
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Yes, I'd be inclined to call them all oldies stations. They play far more old songs in their regular rotations than the top stations did when I was a kid. I remember one night listening to KFRC during its early days under Drake, might have been 1967 or 68 and hearing Elvis' "Hound Dog". The next day at school we all talked about it. It was a novelty to hear such an old song (10 years old!) on KFRC. Even when KYA did their "Golden Gate Greats" weekend I don't think they had more than 2 out of 5 songs older than about 2 years.

Listening today to KOIT you're likely to hear something from 1977, likewise KISQ. When I was a kid that would have been the equivalent of KYA, KFRC, KDIA, or KEWB playing something from 1937!

I don't listen to any of these stations much, but whenever I hear KSAN or KFOG the first song I hear is typically something at least 30 years old. I don't hear anything new that I can think of.

Yes, to me they're all oldies stations.
 
DavidKaye said:

Also, David, going to your point about KOIT being more or less an "Oldies" station: If you're talking about stations that have older music as a significant part of their format (combined Oldies, Classic Hits, Classic Rock, or whatever you want to call it), there are 4 stations in the Top 10 that fit the category - KOIT, KSAN, KFOG, and KISQ.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'd be inclined to call them all oldies stations. They play far more old songs in their regular rotations than the top stations did when I was a kid. I remember one night listening to KFRC during its early days under Drake, might have been 1967 or 68 and hearing Elvis' "Hound Dog". The next day at school we all talked about it. It was a novelty to hear such an old song (10 years old!) on KFRC. Even when KYA did their "Golden Gate Greats" weekend I don't think they had more than 2 out of 5 songs older than about 2 years.

Listening today to KOIT you're likely to hear something from 1977, likewise KISQ. When I was a kid that would have been the equivalent of KYA, KFRC, KDIA, or KEWB playing something from 1937!

I don't listen to any of these stations much, but whenever I hear KSAN or KFOG the first song I hear is typically something at least 30 years old. I don't hear anything new that I can think of.

Yes, to me they're all oldies stations.
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Gee - I could have sworn I heard "Ain't She Sweet" by Bing Crosby and the Rythm Boys about 1969 on the KFRC Solid Gold Weekend. ;D

It's interesting though - despite what we hear about Oldies/Classic Hits now being a dead format because the demographic is so old, these songs persist as a staple of top rated radio stations. I don't know about these days, but just a few years ago, my kids would put on Wild 94.9 and the station would frequently play "old school jams" of soul/Motown songs from the 70s - songs that were released a decade before their core audience was born. You're right -that would have been like KFRC playing Glenn Miller songs during my childhood.

Even Star 101.3 dips into the 70s from time to time, and they play 80s hits (pushing 20 years old) extensiveley.

Maybe its because most of those stations in the top 10 (except KSAN, probably) mix the old music with new songs, so they're able to attract the younger listeners in the 25-54 demo.
 
RadioStarOne said:
KFRC did play Glenn Miller during a lot of our childhoods, don't you remember the early sixties here in SF?
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Actually, I grew up in LA so I missed that KFRC. My parents were old fogeys in their 40s (uh...about a decade younger than I am now), and they listened to KMPC (KSFO's sister station), KHJ (KFRC's sister station, pre-Boss), KNX (pre-All News) and KGIL. But I don't remember any of those stations reaching back into the 40s. Perhaps a very late 40s Sinatra tune might have gotten into the mix, but it was mostly current pop (MOR), with a few 50s MOR records thrown in. You didn't hear much that was more than a decade old.
 
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
RadioStarOne said:
KFRC did play Glenn Miller during a lot of our childhoods, don't you remember the early sixties here in SF?
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KFRC was an MOR station prior to 1966.
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Yes, it was...which looks like the perfect opening for an sf radio museum plug, featuring the Van Amburg show on KFRC 61 circa 1964.

Van hadn't found his true claim to fame yet, which, of course, was as the Bay Area's most popular TV news anchor peddling "happy talk" and sensationalist headlines on Channel 7 News Scene. http://www.sfradiomuseum.com/audio/kfrc/1964/kfrc_van-amburg_oct-1964.shtml
 
Reading this whole thread and returning to its genesis, it occurs to me first of all, that no one seems to be clear on methodology, demographic breakdowns, or even the very important difference between cume (which some formats like all-news or CHR, which each have big audience churn, try to sell) and average quarter hour listening, which adult audience stations sell.

Cume tells you how many people spend even a few minutes with you in a given week, but tell nothing about how many people are listening to a given show or a given spot at any one time. That's why more people buying time, buy on the basis of AQH, which tells you how many people were listening in a given 15 minute period in a daypart and probably heard the commercial you placed there. A station can have high cume and low AQH if people are churning through the station after catching a single story or song they like. Talk stations look better in AQH relative to their cume (like some adult-format music stations as well) because people tune them in and then spend some time with them, maybe 30 to 60 minutes or more at a sitting. You can have a lot of people tuned in at any one time even if not as many people are making a short stop with you before they move on, the way they do with headline services or hit radio jukeboxes. That's why a lot of ad buyers like them so much, they know they reached the pairs of ears they thought they were reaching and had the time to make a sales impression.

Classic hits, sports, modern country and oldies stations have similar audience profiles to the best-liked talkers--substantial numbers of people who stay with them for a longer time before moving on up or down the dial. That's why, in relative terms, advertisers love them so much.

KGO, as long as it keeps the AQH and Time-Spent-Listening or TSL numbers up, will have little to worry about. Actually KSFO, although it may have only 60 percent or so of the AQH KGO does, also comes off pretty well book after book. Put them together and you can bet Mickey Luckoff and Jack Swanson have been smiling every time they read both station's numbers and see the bucks roll in.
 
Bob1370 said:
KGO, as long as it keeps the AQH and Time-Spent-Listening or TSL numbers up, will have little to worry about. Actually KSFO, although it may have only 60 percent or so of the AQH KGO does, also comes off pretty well book after book. Put them together and you can bet Mickey Luckoff and Jack Swanson have been smiling every time they read both station's numbers and see the bucks roll in.
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KGO is 18th in AQH persons in 25-54 in the PPM. KSFO is 31st. The combined 25-54 shares of both are still below those of either KQED or KNBR.
 
Lkeller said:
It's interesting though - despite what we hear about Oldies/Classic Hits now being a dead format because the demographic is so old, these songs persist as a staple of top rated radio stations. I don't know about these days, but just a few years ago, my kids would put on Wild 94.9 and the station would frequently play "old school jams" of soul/Motown songs from the 70s [....]
Click to expand...

The key to all this is obviously the songs themselves, separating the ones that are timeless from the ones that didn't age well. This likely has to be done on a case by case basis, and I'm not exactly sure (even being a musician and all) what makes a certain song timeless or hackneyed.

All I know is that when I hear Wilbur Harrison singing "Kansas City" I want to throw my shoe at the radio.
 
DavidKaye said:

The key to all this is obviously the songs themselves, separating the ones that are timeless from the ones that didn't age well. This likely has to be done on a case by case basis, and I'm not exactly sure (even being a musician and all) what makes a certain song timeless or hackneyed.

All I know is that when I hear Wilbur Harrison singing "Kansas City" I want to throw my shoe at the radio.
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I guess it's different for everyone. Kansas City has been out of rotation so long now, I wouldn't mind hearing it. The one that gets my shoe is Let's Stay Together by Al Green, which has been in heavy rotation for two decades now. I'm sure you would hear at least once daily on KOIT, Kiss-FM, MOViN, KBLX, KKSF, and KFRC. I wouldn't be surprised if KDFC threw it in occasionally, and the KGO talk hosts probably use it as bumper music.

If the Rev. Al gets a nickel for everytime they play that song in every radio market, he must be making millions every year from royalties alone.
 
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