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Radio Havana missing on all frequencies

Here's Priyom's summary on the various numbers stations, including mentions of the cases where Cuban operatives in the US were using them.

The case I recall reading about it mentioned here, the Ana Montes case that occurred in 2001.


Ana Montes worked in the DIA, and part of her espionage involved receiving instructions from numbers stations. Section mentioning the numbers stations instructions is the third section down.:

Here's a guy who worked in the State Department, arrested in 2009 (well after the internet age started), who "used shortwave radio" to communicate with handlers.:
 
Here's Priyom's summary on the various numbers stations, including mentions of the cases where Cuban operatives in the US were using them.

The case I recall reading about it mentioned here, the Ana Montes case that occurred in 2001.


Ana Montes worked in the DIA, and part of her espionage involved receiving instructions from numbers stations. Section mentioning the numbers stations instructions is the third section down.:
Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source, since anyone can edit it.
 
Wikipedia isn’t a reliable source, since anyone can edit it.
Then -- to follow your own lead -- please use some common sense. Read the 2016 Washington Post article linked at the bottom of the Wiki page, which documents what was placed in the Wiki. It's the one that is footnoted next to the section that mentions the use of numbers stations by Montes. In the WA Post article the mention of how a Sony SW radio was used is about 30 paragraphs into the Post article.

The documentation footnote for the Kendall Myers case also was a WA Post article. It mentions the use of SW radio in the very first paragraph of the WA Post article linked.
 
Then -- to follow your own lead -- please use some common sense. Read the 2016 Washington Post article linked at the bottom of the Wiki page, which documents what was placed in the Wiki. It's the one that is footnoted next to the section that mentions the use of numbers stations by Montes. In the WA Post article the mention of how a Sony SW radio was used is about 30 paragraphs into the Post article.

The documentation footnote for the Kendall Myers case also was a WA Post article. It mentions the use of SW radio in the very first paragraph of the WA Post article linked.
IMG_1640.jpeg
 
Please use your common sense and stop wasting your time thinking about something that's not true. It's 2024, not 1964 - spies use methods other than shortwave radio transmissions to get information.
Actually, the phenomenon hasn't gone anywhere and there's been gobs of mainstream coverage of its continued existence right into the modern internet age. One good example:


There are also articles discussing their continued use into the past decade or so from Vice, Popular Mechanics, Gizmodo, the BBC, NPR, and Wired.

You are assuming that Cuba has "spies" and operatives anywhere. The economy is so bad, they can no longer support the medical brigades they sent to Africa and Venezuela in exchange for petroleum.
Their financial straits are dire in deed, but dictatorships have never been known to spare any expense on their intelligence activities, no matter how many of their peoples are living without access to food, basic services, or electricity. Staying in and securing their power is the primary goal, alas.

So the numbers stations are decoys, never sending an actual message to anyone?
I don't know that there ever was conclusive proof on the numbers stations. Lots of speculation about "one time pads" to decode them, from guys like Havana Moon.
I've seen people speculating for decades that some countries run them as decoys, like to convince foreign nations that their spies were deployed throughout the world. But that logic has never made sense. Every intelligence agency knows all the other countries' intelligence agnecies spy, on friends or foes alike. There would be no point in running huge shortwave transmitters broadcasting garbage messages just to imply something everyone either already knows, or would never be negligent enough not to just assume.

As far as proof they're used by spies, that's not a matter of speculation anymore. For many decades there wasn't any, but court convictions with publicly presented proof began happening in the late 20th century and continued into the last couple decades. You can find a bunch of examples at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_stations#History, including more than a couple cases of spies in America being caught using Cuba's numbers station in particular. (The Radio World article above also mentions one of the Cuban numbers station cases involving spies working in the U.S.)

I know people are down on Wikipedia around here, but seriously, just read that section. The citations are good, and when the Internet Archive finishes fixing all the damage done by the cyberturds who hacked it recently, they'll actually be readable. :LOL:

Also, great citations @boombox4!
 
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Actually, the phenomenon hasn't gone anywhere and there's been gobs of mainstream coverage of its continued existence right into the modern internet age. One good example:


There are also articles discussing their continued use into the past decade or so from Vice, Popular Mechanics, Gizmodo, the BBC, NPR, and Wired.

Their financial straits are dire in deed, but dictatorships have never been known to spare any expense on their intelligence activities, no matter how many of their peoples are living without access to food, basic services, or electricity. Staying in and securing their power is the primary goal, alas.

I've seen people speculating for decades that some countries run them as decoys, like to convince foreign nations that their spies were deployed throughout the world. But that logic has never made sense. Every intelligence agency knows all the other countries' intelligence agnecies spy, on friends or foes alike. There would be no point in running huge shortwave transmitters broadcasting garbage messages just to imply something everyone either already knows, or would never be negligent enough not to just assume.

As far as proof they're used by spies, that's not a matter of speculation anymore. For many decades there wasn't any, but court convictions with publicly presented proof began happening in the late 20th century and continued into the last couple decades. You can find a bunch of examples at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_stations#History, including more than a couple cases of spies in America being caught using Cuba's numbers station in particular. (The Radio World article above also mentions one of the Cuban numbers station cases involving spies working in the U.S.)

I know people are down on Wikipedia around here, but seriously, just read that section. The citations are good, and when the Internet Archive finishes fixing all the damage done by the cyberturds who hacked it recently, they'll actually be readable. :LOL:

Also, great citations @boombox4!
Thanks. I think that the evidence shows that at least some of these transmissions have intelligence purposes. For one thing, the NSA can't yet monitor which stations you tune in on your Tecsun, or your SDR that you use with your laptop. It, and other US agencies, can indeed monitor internet communications -- especially if they're from overseas. Same thing with overseas phone communications.

On one level, I've no idea why Cuba would be interested anymore on having spies in the US. Do we still have spies there? It's a good question. It seems as if it would be an anachronism from the last century. Our countries aren't necessarily friendly, but the US hasn't threatened Cuba in decades. Fidel's long gone. We almost opened up to Cuba when Obama was in office, but that got put on hold, or reversed, under Trump, and Biden hasn't reopened relations with Cuba. But why would they spy on us, or us on them? It's a good question.

But if there are indeed Cuban spies in US agencies, they could be selling the intelligence they gather here. Or the numbers transmissions could be intended for spies, intelligence agents, etc. from other nations, like Russia and China. After all, the Havana numbers transmissions are sometimes strong enough to cover WBCQ's full strength transmissions on 9330 here in the PNW. If you're an agent from Russia or China or another country with ties to Cuba, it would be much easier to copy instructions from the Havana station than Russia or China.

There's also a lot of other weird stuff in the HF spectrum. Stuff that could be intelligence related or military, some of it no one really knows the purposes of it. HFUnderground is a website that discusses a lot of it. Priyom is a site that disseminates info on the transmissions

PS, I don't blindly trust Wiki -- or any other source, for that matter. But if the documentation is there, I'll give it more weight.
 
Their financial straits are dire in deed, but dictatorships have never been known to spare any expense on their intelligence activities, no matter how many of their peoples are living without access to food, basic services, or electricity. Staying in and securing their power is the primary goal, alas.
Have you ever lived under a dictatorship? I have, and you are oversimplifying and "Americanizing" such systems.
I've seen people speculating for decades that some countries run them as decoys, like to convince foreign nations that their spies were deployed throughout the world. But that logic has never made sense. Every intelligence agency knows all the other countries' intelligence agnecies spy, on friends or foes alike. There would be no point in running huge shortwave transmitters broadcasting garbage messages just to imply something everyone either already knows, or would never be negligent enough not to just assume.
The assumption all along has been that most of the transmission is gibberish but that certain moments and sequences have value. There is really no confirmation on either side of the political spectrum.
As far as proof they're used by spies, that's not a matter of speculation anymore. For many decades there wasn't any, but court convictions with publicly presented proof began happening in the late 20th century and continued into the last couple decades. You can find a bunch of examples at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_stations#History, including more than a couple cases of spies in America being caught using Cuba's numbers station in particular. (The Radio World article above also mentions one of the Cuban numbers station cases involving spies working in the U.S.)
And even that "evidence" is questionable.
 
A few things to note:

All of the Cuban spies arrested had regular jobs that at trial they said they needed to support themselves as Cuba provided little if any financial resources. Not at all like James Bond where his government paid job was to be a spy. They were doing the spy thing out of loyalty to their country and not for a tremendous pay check. (Plus, they had a better life style in the US than most of the folks in Cuba.)

Internet, email, phone calls all leave foot prints. A shortwave receiver cost very little and thousands of people have them. Basically, you know the origination point but the receiving end is forever unknown and doesn't require much special training to use. How much does it cost Cuba to run a kW (or 5 kW) transmitter?

One last thing, there are also numbers stations in the UK and several other western countries.
 
A few things to note:

All of the Cuban spies arrested had regular jobs that at trial they said they needed to support themselves as Cuba provided little if any financial resources. Not at all like James Bond where his government paid job was to be a spy. They were doing the spy thing out of loyalty to their country and not for a tremendous pay check. (Plus, they had a better life style in the US than most of the folks in Cuba.)

Internet, email, phone calls all leave foot prints. A shortwave receiver cost very little and thousands of people have them. Basically, you know the origination point but the receiving end is forever unknown and doesn't require much special training to use. How much does it cost Cuba to run a kW (or 5 kW) transmitter?

One last thing, there are also numbers stations in the UK and several other western countries.
That is undoubtedly true, and one could have said that about many of the Soviet spies during the Cold War, some of whom held regular jobs and did little more than simple tasks like drops. And -- some of them used SW radios. There was a book on the KGB I read in the 80's where the author talked about a Soviet man who -- after being trained in American English and a trade -- was snuck into the US, lived in the Midwest, got married under his new identity, and he was told to listen to the SW radio for instructions that never came. I don't remember if he was in place just in case a drop was needed, or if his house was to be a safe house.

After maybe 8-9 years of never getting instructions, eventually stopped turning on the SW radio, and I think he eventually got rid of it. He cut off any communication he may have had -- via drops or whatever -- with his handlers. The KGB never bothered to come and get him. The FBI apparently was onto him, anyway.

Although not all 'spies' are cloak and dagger types, the damage done from the spying sometimes is considerable. In the case of Ana Montes, US intelligence operatives may have lost their lives in Cuba, and potentially the Russians and China may have benefited from the intelligence she stole and then delivered to the Cubans as a member of the DIA.

Spies aren't anything to take lightly. The Walker case in the 1970's and early 80's gave the Soviets a motherlode of submarine and other technology.

The existence of any country's moles being in agencies like the DIA or embedded in the State Department isn't good for America.

I don't think we need to go political to understand that the concept of moles, agents, etc. in our government is still an issue 33 years after the Cold War officially ended. And not all intelligence work is high tech. Human intelligence, like drops and ciphers, date back a lot further than SW radio, or any other electronic based tech. It's one reason I think that at least some of the numbers transmissions have legitimate uses, be it military or intelligence.

Some of them may indeed be decoys. The Feds built a decoy, fake and bizarre looking 'radar' installation not too far from where I live to throw off the Soviet satellites in the 80's. Decoys are indeed used in intelligence.

And even that "evidence" is questionable.
The articles below the link YeOldeSchool posted state otherwise. One of documents below the article is a Federal indictment that mentions the use of SW radio on page 6. The transmissions definitely weren't 'gibberish' according to the Federal prosecutor involved in Myers' case.


Finally, Radiofan2023, I apologize if I got too defensive on this thread. I think we should be able to have differences of opinion without turning up the heat. Sorry about that.
 
If the Cubans are sending secret messages via radio, I am pretty sure there is a three or four letter US agency listening and either attempting to or has broken any code they are using. Since WW2 thanks to computers, short or medium wave radio isn't very secure.
 
If the Cubans are sending secret messages via radio, I am pretty sure there is a three or four letter US agency listening and either attempting to or has broken any code they are using. Since WW2 thanks to computers, short or medium wave radio isn't very secure.

To at least the publics knowledge, no one has broken Cuba's code spewed out by Suzy cubano with the repeating numbers and digital data bursts on HM01
 
As I recall, one-time pad cyphers are one of the most difficult to break. That's not to say that the NSA can't decipher it, it's just more difficult.
 
Arnie Corro took those secrets with him to that big transmitter upstairs.

I corresponded with Arnie once about interference one of the RHC SW frequencies was causing to another broadcaster, Radio Oman.

Akashvani moved one of their broadcasts because I contacted the right office (they were on the same frequency as this particular RHC service and Oman.

Arnie more or less told me I didn’t know what I was talking about and went on a screed against the HFCC/ITU
 
I corresponded with Arnie once about interference one of the RHC SW frequencies was causing to another broadcaster, Radio Oman.
Probably about the clash on 15140 kHz. Oman used to put in a decent signal into Texas during the day before being stepped in by RHC. 9500 was used by Oman during North American evenings without any problems. Oman’s own shortwave broadcasts are now gone, though the BBC relay in the country is still going.
Arnie more or less told me I didn’t know what I was talking about and went on a screed against the HFCC/ITU
Cuba hasn’t bothered to coordinate and register any of their SW output with the HFCC.

Glenn Hauser used to regularly lampoon Arnie on his various World of Radio media in regard to Cuba’s shortwave antics, particularly jamming activity.
 
If the Cubans are sending secret messages via radio, I am pretty sure there is a three or four letter US agency listening and either attempting to or has broken any code they are using. Since WW2 thanks to computers, short or medium wave radio isn't very secure.
But, for that matter, neither is the internet, when you have an agency like the NSA. My guess is IF there are agents in the US, SW might be more untraceable than using an internet connection. All you need is a radio and a one time pad, even if it's on your own laptop. Internet connections can be monitored by ISP's (subject to search warrants if requested by Federal agencies) as well as direct monitoring by government agencies (if the internet connection is international).
 
As I recall, Cuba used to relay Radio Moscow on 600 kHz with a reasonably powerful transmitter. In south Florida WIOD was allowed a temporary power increase (although it went on for years) to overcome the first adjacent interference.
 
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