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Radio is dead...period!

Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

> I remember when
> channel 4 also owned a vending machine company and the Miami
> Seaquarium. Who knows what else they owned?

Wometco was a movie theatere company, with theatres in several states. That was their principal source of income. From there, the branched out into vending (a natural, gien that the profit in movie theatres comes form concessions), attractions and TV. TV was an add on.
 
Re: Ownership Of The Airwaves?

Aside from the fact that licenses no longer come up for renewal every three years. It is true, you can sell station assets, equipment, real estate, etc. but you can't sell the frequency. In seller finance deals, the previous owner or the bank can't reposess the frequency.
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

> Unfortunately, I've never thought of radio as a safe
> business. Even being a jock is a huge risk, as your next
> Arbitron could be the end of your career. I just wish some
> owner, somewhere, had the belly for taking a chance.
>


How about every regular poster on this board throws in a thousand bucks, we'll form an LLC, buy a station like WFTL and do just that ;-)
 
Re: A happy medium?

I don't remember there ever being an FCC restriction on how many hours a day had to be live (and how would you define "live" anyway..I don't remember Fleetwood mac performing in any station I've ever worked at). Automation has been around for a long, long time. I don't recall a requirement to have a person in the studio speaking a certain number of words into a microphone. Docket 80-90 had its problems, one of them creating several stations in very small towns, which drove ad rates to 99 cents a piece and made them unable to survive, often the established station with the strong news presence had to downsize and go sattelite. Consolodation often put them all under one owner, which was the only way they could survive economically. Many of the city of license assignments for 80-90 were ridiculous anyway..towns with absolutely no retail base. take Battle Ground, Indiana, for example (adjacent to Lafayette, Indiana.) You couldn't broadcast from Battle Ground and not have a city grade signal in Lafayette if you tried. There's no retail base in Battle Ground that could support a station. Even may of the suburbs that have 80-90 allocations aren't separate markets in their own right. Does anyone think the residents of Englewood, Ohio only work and shop within the confines of Englewood, and wouldn't listen to any of the Dayton stations?

I'm not one who believes that if 40 years ago there was an allocation in West Podunk, Florida, that it always has to be there. Populations do shift.
 
Re: A happy medium?

> I don't remember there ever being an FCC restriction on how
> many hours a day had to be live (and how would you define
> "live" anyway..I don't remember Fleetwood mac performing in
> any station I've ever worked at).

In the late 60's and early 70's when the first automation systems came on the scene, there was a restriction on how many hours could be automated. Sorry, I can't remember the exact figure. And no, you didn't have to bring Fleetwood Mac or the Beatles into the studio to play live. Most stations met this requirement with live newscasts, some live public affairs, and maybe one or two live airshifts. I remember this from doing 4 hours on our Top 40 AM, then moving down the hall to do 3 more on our "Solid Gold" mostly automated FM with its lovely Gates automation system.

> I'm not one who believes that if 40 years ago there was an
> allocation in West Podunk, Florida, that it always has to be
> there. Populations do shift.

True, populations do shift, but consider this. In the late 60's, the town I grew up in (beautiful Pine Bluff, Arkansas) had 6 local signals, 5 AM and 1FM, plus the 3 or 4 signals that came in from Little Rock, 40 miles up the highway. That meant that while you could listen to "big time" radio (I myself was a huge fan of KAAY), you could also get local news, information and community involvement. Docket 89-90 brought 4 new FMs to Pine Bluff, which was simply too many stations for the town to support.

As of now, all 4 have upgraded their signals, moved the transmitter site as close to the Jefferson/Pulaski county line as possible, and now position themselves as Little Rock Stations, along with several others from small towns within 30-50 miles of Little Rock. Add to that the fact that the AMs have gone to satellite syndication with an hour or two of local programming here and there, and the end result is that Pine Bluff (a town of just over 50,000 people) has been abandoned by local radio, while Little Rock is now so swamped with signals that I can't imagine how some of them manage to pay the light bill.

Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned, but I don't think that's progress. And I don't think it's good.
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

> How about every regular poster on this board throws in a
> thousand bucks, we'll form an LLC, buy a station like WFTL
> and do just that ;-)
>


I'm in, as long as I get to do mornings!
 
Re: A happy medium?

> Why have licenses? Why not ownership of the frequency by
> the station? I don't mind a purchase from the government for
> ownership. Sort of like a condo conversion where current
> licensees get the inside price and the right of first
> refusal. The inside price should be close to what the
> market will pay. Not more than a ten percent discount.
>
> The rest of your thoughts are fine, just so the government
> is out of the business except for protection of private
> property rights.

Not a bad idea...Didn't even think of the 'condo' approach.

However, the only problem is, with all the stations being 'sold' from the government, can small (and even large) companies afford the cost of an extra $1, 5, 50, or 100 million for a station?

Personally, I say the government just give the ownership to the current owners without cost. Most have already plopped down millions for a single station...

Anyway, good idea!

Radio-X<P ID="signature">______________
I wasn't born in the south, but I got down here as fast as I could...
</P>
 
Re: Ownership Of The Airwaves?

> Aside from the fact that licenses no longer come up for
> renewal every three years. It is true, you can sell station
> assets, equipment, real estate, etc. but you can't sell the
> frequency. In seller finance deals, the previous owner or
> the bank can't reposess the frequency.

What is sold is the "reasonable expection" of renewal and continued use. This is like a company that leases land to build a building on... they have a reasonable expectation to continue to use the land for the life of the building.

And, while you can not "sell" the frequency, one can petition for transfer. Bankruptcies do not make the license forfeit. Simply, thre is a petiton for involuntary transfer of control. And that is the key word, "control." The difference in the fixed asset value of a station and the purchase price is the value of the usage of the license.
>
 
Re: A happy medium?

I remember restrictions about simulcasting (which brought a lot of those automated stations in the first place), news and PA requirements and requirements to broadcast from the "main studio" in the actual city of license, but I still don't remember a requirement for live airshifts (even early airchecks of KHJ-FM don't seem to indicate that they were anything but automated with Solid Gold Rock and Roll).

As for Pine Bluff, certainly, someone should still be doing business there. I never said all was good about what happened. There are some very far-flung stations around here that could be profitable covering their area. I don't know how anyone would actually litigate for a change.
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

Programming by committee? That would make a great script for a TV show or a movie. It would be very funny. I don't think it would work for a real life radio station.


>
> How about every regular poster on this board throws in a
> thousand bucks, we'll form an LLC, buy a station like WFTL
> and do just that ;-)
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: A happy medium?

The purchase of the frequency can be financed. That will be a new asset on the balance sheet of the station. (Yeh, they can not put their frequency on the B/S as an asset now).

Just as banks finance people to buy a condo in a conversion, a frequency would make a good collateral for a loan, after the station puts a down payment on it.

I think sale of government assets in general, is a fine way to pay off the national debt. Radio stations don't need welfare. It will be good for them to buy their frequency. They will appreciate it more (emotional not financial appreciation).

I like government assets sold to the private sector to be used for profit.

How much would the interstate system go for?


> However, the only problem is, with all the stations being
> 'sold' from the government, can small (and even large)
> companies afford the cost of an extra $1, 5, 50, or 100
> million for a station?
>
> Personally, I say the government just give the ownership to
> the current owners without cost. Most have already plopped
> down millions for a single station...
>
> Anyway, good idea!
>
> Radio-X
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

A format put together by Radio-Info posters..a 20,000 song playlist from 1946 to the present, alternating hard left and far right talk...the posibilities are enless!
 
Re: A happy medium?

Surprised nobody has thought of naming rights at least. "Traffic's Snarled on the Progressive Insurance Freeway".
 
Re: A happy medium?

> The purchase of the frequency can be financed. That will be
> a new asset on the balance sheet of the station. (Yeh, they
> can not put their frequency on the B/S as an asset now).
>
> Just as banks finance people to buy a condo in a conversion,
> a frequency would make a good collateral for a loan, after
> the station puts a down payment on it.
>
> I think sale of government assets in general, is a fine way
> to pay off the national debt. Radio stations don't need
> welfare. It will be good for them to buy their frequency.
> They will appreciate it more (emotional not financial
> appreciation).

All I'm saying is that it would be a company with billions of dollars worth of stations having to find the cash up front to purchase them. Because stations have spent millions to build a station, why not give the current licensees right of first refusal, selling it to them at half the fair market value which can be implimented over 10 to 20 years. Depending on circumstances (like if a single 'mom and pop' station is just getting by), the selling price may be lowered.

> I like government assets sold to the private sector to be
> used for profit.

Yes...hopefully somebody will get the idea to sell AMTRAK...what a disaster

> How much would the interstate system go for?

Well, the old saying in the fifties was that it cost 'a million a mile'. With today's standards...about 10 million a mile...hehe...the debt could be paid off by selling the whole dang thing off!

Radio-X<P ID="signature">______________
I wasn't born in the south, but I got down here as fast as I could...
</P>
 
Re: A happy medium?

> The purchase of the frequency can be financed. That will be
> a new asset on the balance sheet of the station. (Yeh, they
> can not put their frequency on the B/S as an asset now).

Licences are treated in the manner of goodwill. Otherwise, the moment you bought a station you would have to write off the excess over fixed asset value. The physical plant of an LA station might be worth, perhaps, $6 to $8 million. Its value on the market might be around $400 million today (if a full Wilson B). So the license is treated _like_ an asset, and appears on the balance sheet.
>
> Just as banks finance people to buy a condo in a conversion,
> a frequency would make a good collateral for a loan, after
> the station puts a down payment on it.

Seldom does this happen. Very few lenders do startups, unless they are part of a bigger operation. Generally, banks that do radio (which are very few) want experienced management, multi-market and multi-station exposure and a lot of participation by the investor. The license, unless part of a billing, ongoing business, is not mortgaged or encumbered separately.
 
Wometco

> A straight answer. Maybe research has found that it will
> not be a good investment. Perhaps it has been found that
> the $50 mil will yield a greater return in corporate bonds
> or investment in convenience stores. I remember when
> channel 4 also owned a vending machine company and the Miami
> Seaquarium. Who knows what else they owned?

Wometco also owned a chain of movie theatres.

73s from 954<P ID="signature">______________
<center><font color=green size="+1">South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

> > Unfortunately, I've never thought of radio as a safe
> > business. Even being a jock is a huge risk, as your next
> > Arbitron could be the end of your career. I just wish
> some
> > owner, somewhere, had the belly for taking a chance.
> >
> How about every regular poster on this board throws in a
> thousand bucks, we'll form an LLC, buy a station like WFTL
> and do just that ;-)

Great idea. But $1000 from every poster on this board
wouldn't even buy you a Hummer.

73s from 954 (My turn to drive is Saturday!)<P ID="signature">______________
<center><font color=green size="+1">South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

> A format put together by Radio-Info posters..a 20,000 song
> playlist from 1946 to the present, alternating hard left and
> far right talk...the posibilities are enless!

How about music of the 1920s to 1960s?

With neither extremist nor religious talk?

And scoped airchecks?

73s from 954



<P ID="signature">______________
<center><font color=green size="+1">South Florida Radio Pages -- November Radio News</font></center></P>
 
Re: What's stopping the smaller companies from trying?

For a few bucks, each of us can start our own internet station. When cars can receive internet audio, the medium will thrive.

Have I gotten far enough off topic yet?

Thanks guys for keeping this civil. We can disagree and not attack, but stay on topic. Kudos.

> > A format put together by Radio-Info posters..a 20,000 song
>
> > playlist from 1946 to the present, alternating hard left
> and
> > far right talk...the posibilities are enless!
>
> How about music of the 1920s to 1960s?
>
> With neither extremist nor religious talk?
>
> And scoped airchecks?
>
> 73s from 954
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
Re: A happy medium?

Goodwill is only worth a fraction of what a frequency would be worth. The write off is five years or less for Goodwill.

There may not be any write off for a frequency as it is similar to land and does not depreciate. Depreciation is not permitted for land under accounting rules or tax law.




> > The purchase of the frequency can be financed. That will
> be
> > a new asset on the balance sheet of the station. (Yeh,
> they
> > can not put their frequency on the B/S as an asset now).
>
> Licences are treated in the manner of goodwill. Otherwise,
> the moment you bought a station you would have to write off
> the excess over fixed asset value. The physical plant of an
> LA station might be worth, perhaps, $6 to $8 million. Its
> value on the market might be around $400 million today (if a
> full Wilson B). So the license is treated _like_ an asset,
> and appears on the balance sheet.
> >
> > Just as banks finance people to buy a condo in a
> conversion,
> > a frequency would make a good collateral for a loan, after
>
> > the station puts a down payment on it.
>
> Seldom does this happen. Very few lenders do startups,
> unless they are part of a bigger operation. Generally, banks
> that do radio (which are very few) want experienced
> management, multi-market and multi-station exposure and a
> lot of participation by the investor. The license, unless
> part of a billing, ongoing business, is not mortgaged or
> encumbered separately.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>
 
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