Ralph Barbieri's Comments at SFGate

[davideduardo]

But I do have a life experience here and I can tell you that my feelings about radio are a lot more common than you might believe.

One of the problems of radio is that there is a feeling that radio can use the same model it used in the past in this recessionary, new media environment.

When most of us talk about radio, it is with people who are closer to radio than our "informal surveys" should be. When talking to people in the younger demos who are brought in to a discussion (think "focus groups" here) based on the same kind of recruitment techniques used by Arbitron, we find a huge lack of passion for radio. And we see huge passion for FaceBook and things like streaming sources ranging from Pandora to iHeart radio as well as iTunes. Radio's place in younger consumer's minds is quite a ways down the "importance list" from where it was in the past.

Among older consumers of radio, we do see lots of people who don't get the fact that radio that sounds like it did in the 60's or 70's does not get the under-50 demos and does not do well in ratings any more.

Somewhere in the middle are many people who want radio with an element of humanity but which addresses the interests of today in a style that is not what is associated with radio in the past.

Then there are those who still like what most of us would have called "good radio" in the pre-consolidation years. Yet consolidation is blamed for "killing radio" while really changes in technology and the way people form communities and seek entertainment are the real causes... complicated by a major recession.

It's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers. But the fact really is that the big shift is in what listeners want and how they want it delivered.

 

[DavidKaye]

Third, we have a generation or two of people who now get their interaction with others via social networks, instant texting, ubiquitous telephone service and such. They don't want or need what we used to call "talent" telling them the time and the temperature and cracking wise about the song title. They know how to access specific traffic info when they need it, and can get whatever news and information exactly how they want it when they so desire. And they don't believe that old jingle line about "your friend on the radio" coming from a jock because the jock is not their friend and they don't care.

I'm not even of the digital generation but I listen in similar ways.

Traffic: I don't care about traffic even though I drive in it. Bless the people who work at Metro/Shadow/Total Traffic, but the info isn't of any use to me. There are few alternative routes to take, and knowing there's a traffic jam does nothing to help me.

News: I get this online. I'll only listen to radio news if I have the car radio on and I'm not otherwise occupied listening to podcasts via my MP3 player.

DJs: Yeah, there are a couple on the non-comms I listen to if I happen to be in the car and they happen to be on. They're specialists in specialized music (doo wop, bluegrass, and world music) which I'm not going to get on commercial radio.

Sports: I listen to Jon Miller and Dave Flemming call the Giants baseball games because to me nobody does it better than those two. It's not unusual for me to watch a Giants game on the TV card on this computer and turn on KNBR and listen to the radio play-by-play on a home radio. It's about the only time I listen to a real radio in my home.

 

[calguy]

But I do have a life experience here and I can tell you that my feelings about radio are a lot more common than you might believe.

One of the problems of radio is that there is a feeling that radio can use the same model it used in the past in this recessionary, new media environment.

When most of us talk about radio, it is with people who are closer to radio than our "informal surveys" should be. When talking to people in the younger demos who are brought in to a discussion (think "focus groups" here) based on the same kind of recruitment techniques used by Arbitron, we find a huge lack of passion for radio. And we see huge passion for FaceBook and things like streaming sources ranging from Pandora to iHeart radio as well as iTunes. Radio's place in younger consumer's minds is quite a ways down the "importance list" from where it was in the past.

Among older consumers of radio, we do see lots of people who don't get the fact that radio that sounds like it did in the 60's or 70's does not get the under-50 demos and does not do well in ratings any more.

Somewhere in the middle are many people who want radio with an element of humanity but which addresses the interests of today in a style that is not what is associated with radio in the past.

Then there are those who still like what most of us would have called "good radio" in the pre-consolidation years. Yet consolidation is blamed for "killing radio" while really changes in technology and the way people form communities and seek entertainment are the real causes... complicated by a major recession.

It's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers. But the fact really is that the big shift is in what listeners want and how they want it delivered.

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

 

[TheBigA]

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

Have you ever fired someone? Have you ever been in contract negotiations with talent? It's not just management that plays dirty. These high priced morning teams don't care whose lives they affect when they get their increase. We've told them that their increase will affect other employees, and they don't care. How about all those out of town voice-trackers, who know they're taking the place of someone else? They could easily say it bothers them to steal work from someone else, but that's not how they see it. They want to increase their audience. They brag how they're reaching more listeners, not thinking about the people whose jobs they took. Life is about options and choices. Not just for management, but for employees. The staff budget can only handle so much. If someone gets a raise, that means the money has to come from somewhere.

 

[davideduardo]

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

I got your point.

Leonardo and Kate made "Titanic" despite that pesky director, what's his name, uh, Cameron. They just knew what to do and that director did nothing but get in the way, keep them from doing more spectacular scenes, yadda, yadda.

Your post would be interpreted this way; in this view, management rode the coattails of the talent to success.

It's really the other way around. A good management is the key ingredient in both putting together and maintaining a good radio station. And "good" may be knowing one's own weaknesses and hiring strong people in every area; a good GM does not have to be a good talent, a good seller, a good engineer, a good traffic person, a good new media director... the manager has to know how to hire and choreograph the best possible hires.

 

[calguy]

Actually David, what you and I think are of no consequence. You can now get Pandora in your new Buick. Computers and smart phones will make radio obsolete. The value of radio stations will continue to plummet. Working in radio will be like working for a blacksmith in the auto age. In other words, there is no future in it. To those who made a good living in radio I say, look elsewhere because radio jobs will dwindle until radio is just a part of history... Most of this is due to technology and those on the ground floor of the new technology will be making the money, not those in radio. Technology and greed...

By the way, I don't believe management rode the coattails of talent, but I do believe that without the talent they'd have nothing to manage, and there are a lot of bad managers out there.

BigA, I haven't ever had to fire someone because I've never been management. I've been an air talent, and had such a good job, that I never needed to make the leap to management. You are correct about high priced talent, they're just as greedy, lots of greedy people in the world and who could blame them when you see the idiots on Jersey Shore making a ton of cash for being nothing more than drunk morons. They think, hey, I worked hard for my money and look at the talentless people who are successful, so this station should pay be a large sum because I've made them lots of moneyl... Obviously the old radio model is no longer going to work, it's outdated...

Again, doesn't matter, most of us in radio are toast, and it will not get better... So who cares, no one else does.... David, be thankful for all the years you had in the business, I am, but I know my days are numbered...

 

[DavidKaye]

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

But the fact is that today's listeners don't care about radio personalities. They don't want DJs; they want jukeboxes. This was evident 30-40 years ago when stations touted 30 minute music sweeps because research shows that this is what the listeners wanted. When millions of dollars are at stake you can't just guestimate what people want; you need to do research to have real proof of what people want.

Now, again there is no excuse for the way Cumulus has treated their former employees. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing without creating so much hostility, and the industry would have been better for it.

 

[calguy]

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

But the fact is that today's listeners don't care about radio personalities. They don't want DJs; they want jukeboxes. This was evident 30-40 years ago when stations touted 30 minute music sweeps because research shows that this is what the listeners wanted. When millions of dollars are at stake you can't just guestimate what people want; you need to do research to have real proof of what people want.

Now, again there is no excuse for the way Cumulus has treated their former employees. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing without creating so much hostility, and the industry would have been better for it.

Well someone has to voice what little they do put on the air, which sadly can be accomplished with less people. For me it's not so much that this shift is happening, it's more the way it's being accomplished.
But really it's human nature. There have always been the guys on top who care little for the treatment of their employees. My friends within the CC Burbank cluster tell me that morale sucks. Most in that cluster don't have a problem with what corporate wants, they have a problem with one man in particular whose influence has grown. He's hated by just about everyone there. Problem is, they're all scared. So this little micro manager just keeps steamrolling his way to the top and everyone be damned. And that my friends is something I'd like David Eduardo to spin. Tell me why people have to be treated so badly. THAT has zero to do with the new corporate model for radio and everything to do with human cruelty...

 

[HCochet]

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

But the fact is that today's listeners don't care about radio personalities. They don't want DJs; they want jukeboxes. This was evident 30-40 years ago when stations touted 30 minute music sweeps because research shows that this is what the listeners wanted. When millions of dollars are at stake you can't just guestimate what people want; you need to do research to have real proof of what people want.

Now, again there is no excuse for the way Cumulus has treated their former employees. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing without creating so much hostility, and the industry would have been better for it.

Well someone has to voice what little they do put on the air, which sadly can be accomplished with less people. For me it's not so much that this shift is happening, it's more the way it's being accomplished.
But really it's human nature. There have always been the guys on top who care little for the treatment of their employees. My friends within the CC Burbank cluster tell me that morale sucks. Most in that cluster don't have a problem with what corporate wants, they have a problem with one man in particular whose influence has grown. He's hated by just about everyone there. Problem is, they're all scared. So this little micro manager just keeps steamrolling his way to the top and everyone be damned. And that my friends is something I'd like David Eduardo to spin. Tell me why people have to be treated so badly. THAT has zero to do with the new corporate model for radio and everything to do with human cruelty...

To everyone in radio: Welcome to the real world

 

[DavidKaye]

Tell me why people have to be treated so badly. THAT has zero to do with the new corporate model for radio and everything to do with human cruelty...

They don't have to be treated badly. There's no excuse for it. I can't help but feel that many of these folks simply do not interact much with people in person. They probably do most of their communicating with text and phone calls.

There's a certain callousness that has taken over business in general, and not just broadcasters and not just big business. In fact, PEOPLE IN GENERAL appear to be more callous than before. How many times have you sent meaningful email or voicemail to someone and not gotten the dignity of a response from them? Happens to me all the time.

Just the other day I recommended a client to a video equipment rental company. I sent the equipment manager a heads-up on this client (a reality show), and didn't get so much as even an automated email response from him. I don't think I'll ever refer anybody to the company again. I've known the equipment manager as a casual acquaintance for about 15 years.

Say what you will about Microsoft under Bill Gates, but every time I sent him a useful email, either he or one of his staff responded to me. After a particularly hateful anti-gay commentary on MSNBC I wrote to Bill G about how the commentary might tarnish MS's reputation being associated with MSNBC. Within half a day, Microsoft sent out a press release stating that the the commentary was unfortunate and that they don't necessarily agree with positions taken on MSNBC, but that their contract with NBC prevents them from editorial control. I also have sent Bill G some bridge tips, and various other things that would be of interest to him. When he was running MS he'd be up all night going through emails. He once said that this was how he learned what customers wanted. It's a "DUH" to us, but too many bone-headed managers can't think even that clearly.

But people of less stature than Bill G, even small little tech support companies I've wanted to affiliate with to mutually expand our businesses -- none of them have had the decency of even responding to my emails.

So, it's not just radio.

 

[HCochet]

Yes, it's easy to blame managers, owners and even programmers especially when you see just how horrible they treat people that got them there... Blame technology for throwing away the human element and congrats, you missed my point, you're management...

But the fact is that today's listeners don't care about radio personalities. They don't want DJs; they want jukeboxes. This was evident 30-40 years ago when stations touted 30 minute music sweeps because research shows that this is what the listeners wanted. When millions of dollars are at stake you can't just guestimate what people want; you need to do research to have real proof of what people want.

Now, again there is no excuse for the way Cumulus has treated their former employees. They could have accomplished exactly the same thing without creating so much hostility, and the industry would have been better for it.

I care about radio people. I like Greg Kihn. He's a lot more interesting than the music his station plays.

 

[davideduardo]

And that my friends is something I'd like David Eduardo to spin. Tell me why people have to be treated so badly. THAT has zero to do with the new corporate model for radio and everything to do with human cruelty...

There are two or three real possibilities.

One is that we have a bad manager. I had one back in 1959, so that's not new. Someone who feels big by making everyone else small, that sort of thing.

Then it could be that he'd like to explain things to people, but the corporate HR and legal and risk management people have said not to say anything that might open up grounds for a lawsuit.

Or the manager may be under enormous pressure to cut costs and evolve into a new business model and is just taking out his frustrations on everyone.

It's a tough and anguish-filled time for many in radio.

 

[DavidKaye]

Then it could be that he'd like to explain things to people, but the corporate HR and legal and risk management people have said not to say anything that might open up grounds for a lawsuit.

Hey, David, THAT's good spin! Given that stations have been in layoff mode for years it would have been easy to get legal advice on exactly how to handle firings/layoffs without resorting to downright nastiness. I think the scenario I suggested some posts back, about an appreciation party, would have be the classy way to go.

Yeah, there are lots of things people do without advice of counsel that come back to bite them. Trayvon Matin's mother was on one off the TV talkshows the other day and said that George Zimmerman didn't mean to kill her son. Well, there goes the murder case right out the window.

But that's a one of a kind scenario by a mother who caught up in a whirlwind of publicity and publicity hounds, and maybe even one herself. But she is clearly NOT Cumulus, Clear Channel, or any other station group owner. Those corporations are not engaging in one of a kind scenarios, but firing decisions that they've thought long and hard about, and decisions they made many times.

I'm assuming you were let go by Univision, that you didn't wilfully retire. Did they handle your layoff well or could they have done better? Would you feel better about them had they handled it differently? Assuming that you'll likely consult in the future, would you be more or less likely to recommend their company to, oh say advertisers, than you would have otherwise?

 

[calguy]

And that my friends is something I'd like David Eduardo to spin. Tell me why people have to be treated so badly. THAT has zero to do with the new corporate model for radio and everything to do with human cruelty...

There are two or three real possibilities.

One is that we have a bad manager who feels big by making everyone else small, that sort of thing.

That could be it, but it seems to go deeper. From the 1st hand reports I've been given it's a guy who is ruthless. Seems nice when you meet him, but then you hear the way he speaks to people and how he manages them. He volunteers for every project in the company inside and outside of the cluster, then hands the work to someone else and takes credit for their work. Last September he was promoted to a position that gives him even more control over all the stations in the cluster. When the GM gets complaints about him, he always asks, then why is he so successful? Of course the GM doesn't see it, these same people were successful before the guy ever set foot in the building. Could it be that since he is from another country his way of dealing with people is different than those from the US? Maybe, but it's doubtful. I suppose it's just the fact that some people don't care how they get to the top or who they hurt to get there. Radio was described to me by my first teacher as a cutthroat business. That was nearly 40 years ago, so it's not a new thing. But today's corporate culture seems to breed it. There will always be bad managers in every corner of business, but it's baffling how someone can go that far by being so nasty to the people that you're supposed to be leading... CC's LA cluster is VERY successful, but you wouldn't know it by speaking to just about anyone who works under this man. I do know that when he left CC's San Francisco cluster they were elated beyond belief...

Radio can be a lot of fun and for that matter most businesses can if managed correctly. Do it right and those who work for you will give the extra mile, especially if they feel wanted and rewarded for their work. That reward could be a simple as a pat on the back. Treat people right and in most instances they'll break their tales off for you. Treat them badly and they'll eventually hate you and their job...

 

[davideduardo]

I'm assuming you were let go...

Being treated fairly has to do, in the long run, with whether a decent separation package is on the table and whether the cut is fair and the message is delivered in a professional, understanding fashion.

I was part of a broad-based cost reduction, and was not alone that day. I had the situation explained by the head of the company and the division head. I was not escorted to the door by thugs, and felt "satisfied" that the change had been thought through and represented the new reality of the business and not anything I had done personally.

In other words, were I in the other chair, I would have made the same decision.

The procedures like removing email access and that sort of thing are normal in any situation... just like "giving the keys back" in decades past. Some folks make too much of that on these boards.

Like most of us, I have seen the bad results when someone is allowed to say goodbye on the air... or when they get access to the production room or a studio or the remote control. It's better for the owner, and results in fewer "you'll regret it later even if you are not arrested" incidents too.

The real issues are that some people are not "good" at firing others, and they take out their own insecurities or complexes on the unfortunate victims. And the bigger thing is that radio is off in revenue, and foundering as it searches for a way to survive as listener desires change... so there are more firings and cuts than ever.

 

[geek-orama]

Some good observations here but stations can win and still treat their colleagues with respect and dignity. KNBR's former owner Susquehanna treated all employees well but fairly. They still expected hard work and results. On occasion they did have to fire people but more often they attracted and retained high caliber individuals who worked their tails off to make the company successful. Cumulus has never been that type of company.
The same can be said of Bonneville former owner of KOIT and KDFC. Employees loved working for them, got great benefits and gave their all and the stations were successful But Entercom is more of a Cumulus type company with almost continuous firings, bad ratings and revenue.
Cumulus and Entercom seem to follow the old joke memo, "Beatings will continues until morale improves."

 

[Bryan Simmons]

A friend turned me on to this thread. Everyone has interesting points of view. I would certainly like to know where this calguy gets his information. He seems very passionate about radio, as most of us are. I won't comment about what was said about me, but I will say that someone who knowingly goes on the air to say goodbye and makes a scene isn't helping himself or his or her career. When I was working in Sacramento I resigned from an AOR station to go crosstown and back to a CHR format. When I gave my 2 weeks notice I was told that I was done and to go home. Before I left I popped my head into the control room to say goodbye to my friends on the morning show. The morning man felt the way I was handled was kind of bogus and had me do his last break with him. He allowed me to say goodbye on the air. I never did hear if he got in trouble for it, I doubt it. The PD did not trust me to be on the air again because he suspected I wasn't leaving town, something I understood, but I did go on and there was nothing bad said about the station. It was a good place to work, low paying, but good with a good staff. If given the chance to finish out those 2 weeks I would have given them the best shows I could. Why, honor and reputation. I feel that if you go on the air to say bad things about your station you are dishonoring yourself and your reputation. I suspect that the majority of those in radio would do it that way as well.

I feel for Mr. Barbieri. It's tough to find a full time job in radio today.

 

[LKellerIII]

Here's the latest - a story of dueling press releases. Barbieri has hired legal shark Angela Alioto, presumably to file a wrongful termination suit.

http://blog.sfgate.com/sportsevents...nd-knbr-release-dueling-press-releases/?tsp=1

 

[TheBigA]

For some reason, people in radio feel they are entitled to a job for life. There is no such entitlement.

 

[calguy]

For some reason, people in radio feel they are entitled to a job for life. There is no such entitlement.

Tell me, are radio people any different from anyone else when it comes to trying to stay employed? No one said you have to be a radio gypsy moving from town to town and state to state. I would argue that there is no such entitlement anywhere outside of radio either.