Ralph Barbieri's Comments at SFGate

[TheBigA]

So just where are all these dinsoaurs chasing the younger listeners away?

That's a negative approach. The real question is where are all the new Humble Harvs or the new Dr. Don Rose. Radio isn't growing. There's no room for a new talent to come along and become the voice of the new generation because the previous generation is still active. There are lots of music formats unavailable on commercial radio that reflect the tastes and lifestyle of people in their 20s. But the music would need a credible voice to do the presentation, and right now there is no one in that spot. This is a vacuum that needs to be filled in order for radio to continue past the lifetime of the current talent.

 

[LKellerIII]

Once again, BigA, that list is nearly impossible to produce, but for a different reason: Because to have been over 65 in the 1970s, you would have had to have been born between 1904 and 1913.

In my previous post, I gave examples of people who were born in 1903 and were still in radio in the 1960s, but they retired at that age. That's the point. As I said, radio was not a lifetime career unless, like Tom Donohue, you died at age 47. The other change that happened in the 70s was the influx of female DJs, which didn't really exist during the first half of the radio age. Working women and working past 65 are just two sociological changes that have taken place in the last 40 years. But the consistent criticism I hear about radio is how old it sounds, and how young people don't listen. And my point is there's a correlation between the age of the people on the air, and the audience they attract. People want to hear relatable voices, and white men over 65 don't relate to young black or Hispanic women. That's simply a fact, and with the population shifting away from white men, radio NEEDS to adapt to the changing audience. I'm sorry if that offends, but it's simply a sociological fact.

One of the requirements of being in radio is to appeal to a target demo. You move out of that demo, and don't keep up with the lifestyle changes of the demo, then you no longer meet that job requirement. So while your talent may be as good or better than it was 30 years ago, your audience has aged out of the sales demo. That makes your show harder to sell to advertisers, who pay your salary. What do you suggest owners do?

Well, we're all over the map here. Tom Donahue and Wolfman Jack are irrelevant, because they never got to their 60s. We don't know what their career choices would have been as they aged and whether they'd have held audience to the point that station owners considered them valuable past 65.

Martin Block, Arthur Godfrey and Don McNeil were holdovers from old network radio and didn't so much retire as get forced out because they didn't roll with the changes.

Now, as to how old radio sounds and how young people don't listen, there are formats young people aren't going to listen to to begin with. Oldies is one of them. Sportstalk on AM is probably another.
I doubt there's much appeal to KQED and KCBS for a young listener even if you put 24 year olds in every on-air position.

KMEL would appeal to a younger audience, and from the looks of their website, they have an age-appropriate jock staff. Ditto 99.7 Now, Wild 94.9,.....

So just where are all these dinsoaurs chasing the younger listeners away?

Don Bleu on CHR station Star 101.3 was probably an example - Don's in his mid 60s, but still managed to retain his audience, and was reportedly the highest paid DJ in Bay Area radio for a long time. I say was an example because Clear Channel moved him to their Classic Hits station - 103.7 - a few months ago.

 

[michael hagerty]

So just where are all these dinsoaurs chasing the younger listeners away?

That's a negative approach. The real question is where are all the new Humble Harvs or the new Dr. Don Rose. Radio isn't growing. There's no room for a new talent to come along and become the voice of the new generation because the previous generation is still active. There are lots of music formats unavailable on commercial radio that reflect the tastes and lifestyle of people in their 20s. But the music would need a credible voice to do the presentation, and right now there is no one in that spot. This is a vacuum that needs to be filled in order for radio to continue past the lifetime of the current talent.

Nonsense. Go back to those stations that I listed that appeal to a young demographic, go to their webpages, check the DJ lineups (they have pictures) and tell me what "previous generation" is hogging the chair.

Since we've done the list of air talent over 65 in the 1970s, let me turn the question around. Let's see a list of Bay Area personalities currently on the air who are over 65. Even when Ralph was on it, I'm betting it's a very short list.

 

[TheBigA]

Nonsense. Go back to those stations that I listed that appeal to a young demographic, go to their webpages, check the DJ lineups (they have pictures) and tell me what "previous generation" is hogging the chair.

I'm not saying that EVERY radio station in the area is staffed with people over 55. But I'd say the majority are. Particularly on AM. Before the changes at KGO, almost the entire staff was in their 60s.

Sure you can pick three stations out of the entire market and find some young talent. But what about the rest? Is radio talent representative of the market audience? Does they relate to the changing demographic of the community, and are they reaching people sought by advertisers?

 

[TheBigA]

Don Bleu on CHR station Star 101.3 was probably an example - Don's in his mid 60s, but still managed to retain his audience, and was reportedly the highest paid DJ in Bay Area radio for a long time. I say was an example because Clear Channel moved him to their Classic Hits station - 103.7 - a few months ago.

There are a lot of examples like that. One that comes to mind is Rick Dees. For years he was a mainstay at KIIS in LA. But he lost touch with young listeners, and so he tried to reinvent himself as an AC host. In NYC, Pat St. John was popular at WPLJ for many years, but shifted over to classic rock as he got older. That's a way to remain active as your audience ages. Imus moved from Top 40 to talk out of necessity. He station changed formats, and he changed with it. Dick Clark and Don Cornelius knew when it was time to end their respective TV shows. That's what I'm talking about. As hosts age, so does their audience. Once both move out of the sellable demo, that becomes a problem, as it was at KGO. It probably isn't so much at KNBR, since they have so much live play-by-play. But at some point, even legendary sports announcers like Vin Scully retire. It's a fact of life.

 

[michael hagerty]

Nonsense. Go back to those stations that I listed that appeal to a young demographic, go to their webpages, check the DJ lineups (they have pictures) and tell me what "previous generation" is hogging the chair.

I'm not saying that EVERY radio station in the area is staffed with people over 55. But I'd say the majority are. Particularly on AM. Before the changes at KGO, almost the entire staff was in their 60s.

Sure you can pick three stations out of the entire market and find some young talent. But what about the rest? Is radio talent representative of the market audience? Does they relate to the changing demographic of the community, and are they reaching people sought by advertisers?

Even if you were right about AM (and we move the yarstick to 55 instead of 65), the age of the people on the air isn't what's keeping younger listeners away from that band.

And since you think "you can pick three stations out of the entire market and find some young talent", let's do the rest of the FMs:

KOIT: Jack Kulp is 58. Nobody else on the staff is near it. Sue Hall might...maybe...be 50.

KISS FM: Renel Lewis and Sylvia Chacon are market vets, but I doubt either of them is 55.

103.7: Don Bleu is over 60. Celeste Perry is another market vet, but like Renel and Sylvia, we're probably talking late 40s or early 50s.

[email protected]: Katie Mason's the only one who might be 40.

Star 101: Ryan Seacrest is the old man at 37.

KFOG: Dennis Constantine started in radio 46 years ago. So yeah, he has to be somewhere around 60. Dred Scott, too.

KBLX: Nobody's even close.

KSAN: Steven Seaweed is close to 55, if he's not there yet. Nobody else.

KITS: Is anyone even 30 yet?

Mix 106.5: Nada.

KBAY: Probably Sam Van Zandt (again, we're moving the line to 55 instead of 65), and maybe Dana Jang.

After that, we're into signal-challenged stations that don't break a 1 share. So we have Don Bleu and Dennis Constantine over 60, Jack Kulp at 58, Steven Seaweed at or near 55 and Dred Scott, Sam Van Zandt and Dana Jang somewhere in the neighborhood (again based on career timelines). That's a whopping seven guys at 5 radio stations out of 14 listed, with the rest of those staffs under 55. Far from a majority.

 

[michael hagerty]

And I'll correct myself...I just tripped over an alumni site for Redwood High. Sue Hall was class of '76, which makes her 53 or 54, depending on when her birthday is. Still not 55, but closer to it than I'd thought.

 

[DavidKaye]

Not taking anybody's side here, but I'll note that in the 70s, most of the Bay Area's MOR jocks (Carter B. Smith, Frank Dill, Jim Lange) were in their mid 30s to early 40s - not exactly old men.

Meanwhile, I mentioned a number of older announcers who were definitely up in years. The problem here is that few if anybody here listened to Walt Jamond, John K Chapel, Jimmy Lyons, Dave Niles, Ken Ackerman, and the rest because you/we were listening to Top 40 and rock DJs at the time. But if my memory serves (and it usually does) there were indeed older people working behind the mic, but they worked at MOR and full-service stations.

But the point someone made is true: There used to be retirement plans where people could leave the working world at age 65 and have a decent pension. That's all gone now. Pension? Pension? What's that?

 

[michael hagerty]

Not taking anybody's side here, but I'll note that in the 70s, most of the Bay Area's MOR jocks (Carter B. Smith, Frank Dill, Jim Lange) were in their mid 30s to early 40s - not exactly old men.

Meanwhile, I mentioned a number of older announcers who were definitely up in years. The problem here is that few if anybody here listened to Walt Jamond, John K Chapel, Jimmy Lyons, Dave Niles, Ken Ackerman, and the rest because you/we were listening to Top 40 and rock DJs at the time. But if my memory serves (and it usually does) there were indeed older people working behind the mic, but they worked at MOR and full-service stations.

But the point someone made is true: There used to be retirement plans where people could leave the working world at age 65 and have a decent pension. That's all gone now. Pension? Pension? What's that?

Amen to that, David. Of course, those pensions wouldn't have existed back then if they'd thought the retirees were likely to live to 90. That was the biggest incentive for GM to declare bankruptcy...so they could get out of the pensions and health costs for workers who retired as long as 30 years ago and were still getting benefits.

 

[sandwix]

Michael,

All the women you mentioned, with the exception of Katie Mason, are over 50. And yes, currently Hall is 53 but has a birthday coming up later this year.
Probably the oldest woman at Alice 97.3 is Liz St. John. She is just over 50.

 

[geek-orama]

Back on the topic of Ralph Barbieri. He still had good ratings with the same voice and the same delivery he had in his 30s. Why shouldn't he still be on KNBR. If you got the goods, you shouldn't be kicked to the curb.

 

[TheBigA]

That's a whopping seven guys at 5 radio stations out of 14 listed, with the rest of those staffs under 55. Far from a majority.

OK...I appreciate you answering the question.

There used to be retirement plans where people could leave the working world at age 65 and have a decent pension. That's all gone now. Pension? Pension? What's that?

Yes pensions are becoming a thing of the past. But all major radio companies offer 401k plans, and some have company matches, where the employer kicks in a percentage. There are options available to these people if they choose to use them. If they become outside contractors and aren't eligible for company plans, they're getting paid enough to set up their own IRA plans. Lots of options, and we all need to take charge of our own lives to prepare for the day it all ends.

 

[radio dx]

I don't think it's an age issue, in today's business climate it's a $ issue (my opinion).

 

[geek-orama]

It is an age issue when Entercom fires 5 people over 50 in less than 1 year at a successful station. An earlier post showed only Jack Kulp (58) on the staff. And the station is less successful.

 

[SFStatic]

RE pensions...KOIT is AFTRA (now SAG-AFTRA), so the pension is through the union. That's also true at KCBS, KGO, KBLX, and several other outlets.