Michael Rivers Kramer said:
I was told the same thing by an owner/GM (of an FM) in 1974.
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Ratings continue to dip at KFRC 1550
- Thread starter travisl5678
- Start date
I was told the same thing by an owner/GM (of an FM) in 1974.
For a long time, I have maintained that the AM band is far too crowded with far too many signals that will never be viable. What the FCC should do is to expand the FM band down through present TV channel 5 and move a number of AMs down there. Then, they should simply decline to renew the AM licenses of those non-viable signals.
Basically, we should be left with a band with only a few high-powered signals per large city. The band will be clearer, and can once again be used for longer distance broadcasting. Ideally, a band that's somewhat like it was back in the 1930s.
As for the usefulness of amplitude modulation: if nothing else, AM fills in gaps where terrain hampers FM signals AND it's probably the most valuable band we have in the case of a national emergency. Use it for real "broadcasting" and leave the local stuff to FM.
Basically, we should be left with a band with only a few high-powered signals per large city. The band will be clearer, and can once again be used for longer distance broadcasting. Ideally, a band that's somewhat like it was back in the 1930s.
As for the usefulness of amplitude modulation: if nothing else, AM fills in gaps where terrain hampers FM signals AND it's probably the most valuable band we have in the case of a national emergency. Use it for real "broadcasting" and leave the local stuff to FM.
They will not use AM for broadband because of what you stated...but the SW and Amateurs were under threat. The results if it were too pass, that it would cause extreme buzzing radiation transformer type noise on the bands including AM.
It was the Amateurs that put a stop to that passing. But with a few stations in each market...it's useless. Especially for music. AM is what it is.
It was the Amateurs that put a stop to that passing. But with a few stations in each market...it's useless. Especially for music. AM is what it is.
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
Interestingly, this station, as KOBY, was #1 in San Francisco in the late 50's for a while.
Changes in the market size (many more counties), and the general lack of use of AM by under-50 listeners have made this facility no longer viable.
I agree with BRNout's proposition to revamp the AM band. I think it would have a better shelf life than the deathwatch we're all predicting if it wasn't such a random bunch of noise and irrelevant, stereotypical (no pun intended to AM stereo!) programming. By contrast, only a fraction of the public will ever subscribe to satellite radio. (At least, I suggest, as long as it's limited to a proprietary service, instead of being a mix of free and subscriber services.)
One of the best things about AM is that, when there's enough power, and especially when the signal is directionalized TOWARD an intended area, like up and down US101 or I-5, it's a great way to reach a lot of terrain. And it sure beats dialing around every hour to retune FM signals on a long drive -- if you could find an interesting AM station worth listening to for several hours. (Would be nice to have one aimed across I-80 from California to Utah, and another on I-90 across the Cascade Mountains outside Seattle, too.)
KGO, for what it's worth, is a West coast example of the kind of signal I'm talking about. Gets in reliably at night, and usually an hour or two before sunset, from Oregon to as far as central Alaska when it's dark up there. But it's jammed out of the big population centers of Portland and Seattle by religious daytimers that were upgraded to fulltime awhile back.
Problem with this scenario is that it requires an FCC that's willing to plan, and regulate, to make some sense of AM for the future. And not rubberstamp whatever the commercial outfits with the biggest bucks want. (so, how has that worked out for ya, huh?) With all the crybabies on conservative radio that scream everytime some is perceived as threatening their status quo monopolies, it would take some cojones to follow thru and get past their objections. And it would require broadcasters with some longterm vision to endorse a plan for a limited number of planned, powerful AM signals. Probably some commercial, some non-comm. Instead of being passive and complaining they aren't getting their share. Imagine the value of several larger AMs, aimed at each region of the country, and planned with local terrain and conductivity issues in mind. Stations that will be required to provide news, weather and even road reports (mountain pass conditions for example) that long distance motorists will need. stopping at a rest stop for connecting a laptop computer to wi fi is the way you have to do it now, if you have winter driving to face, since you're not likely to find a local station giving conditions with any regularity in rural America.
And then give most of the rest of the displaced AM operators space on an expanded, former TV channel 5 and 6 FM band, comparable to their current coverage areas. (Which would probably be a lot of class A and lower FMs to replicate the 1 and 5 kw AM contours.) Probably give them a limited license period, in case outfits that would going to go under for more reasons than bad AM signals don't make it anyway as a local FM. And leave room to clean up some problem FM assignments, and to let some new folks get licensed to do their things on the new FM band, too.
This isn't really much different from what a number of other countries have done with AM radio, and some with longwave, all along. Instead of jamming up the dial with too much noise from so many smaller AM stations that don't really serve much of a significant purpose. Which is what we have today, and drives dial surfers AWAY from AM.
And still realize than FM is going to be where most of the people in any one market are going to be anyway. So some AM-FM simulcasting may still be required.
Whatever happened to the incentive to donate an occasional AM signal to an noncomm broadcaster? Of couse, it can't be just any AM signal anymore. Even the community radio folks are usually wise to the money pit of maintaining a low wattage daytimer.
But, back to the topic at hand... I could see AM 1550 becoming a repeater for either KQED (to help counter its severe multipath issues everywhere), or, maybe, to extend KALW's reach down the peninsula, and around the backside of some hills. The 1550 signal is not as bad as a lot of other AMs, despite the high dial position. Just doesn't go very far south or east of the hills. I used to hear it fine north of Santa Rosa, and I think most car listeners can still get a decent signal on it for up to 80 miles north of San Mateo.
Then again, there's nothing wrong with having a oldies station on AM that gets to a small but loyal audience. If that's what's happening with it now, and the licensee can make a modest profit off of it.
Of course, once there's an easy model for programming internet radio streams into a car and kitchen radio, the industry, and the cluttered bands, will have to change quickly, or it can rapidly become even more irrelevant to people equipped with new internet-streaming radios. Which means it's time to start planning a revamped dial NOW.
One of the best things about AM is that, when there's enough power, and especially when the signal is directionalized TOWARD an intended area, like up and down US101 or I-5, it's a great way to reach a lot of terrain. And it sure beats dialing around every hour to retune FM signals on a long drive -- if you could find an interesting AM station worth listening to for several hours. (Would be nice to have one aimed across I-80 from California to Utah, and another on I-90 across the Cascade Mountains outside Seattle, too.)
KGO, for what it's worth, is a West coast example of the kind of signal I'm talking about. Gets in reliably at night, and usually an hour or two before sunset, from Oregon to as far as central Alaska when it's dark up there. But it's jammed out of the big population centers of Portland and Seattle by religious daytimers that were upgraded to fulltime awhile back.
Problem with this scenario is that it requires an FCC that's willing to plan, and regulate, to make some sense of AM for the future. And not rubberstamp whatever the commercial outfits with the biggest bucks want. (so, how has that worked out for ya, huh?) With all the crybabies on conservative radio that scream everytime some is perceived as threatening their status quo monopolies, it would take some cojones to follow thru and get past their objections. And it would require broadcasters with some longterm vision to endorse a plan for a limited number of planned, powerful AM signals. Probably some commercial, some non-comm. Instead of being passive and complaining they aren't getting their share. Imagine the value of several larger AMs, aimed at each region of the country, and planned with local terrain and conductivity issues in mind. Stations that will be required to provide news, weather and even road reports (mountain pass conditions for example) that long distance motorists will need. stopping at a rest stop for connecting a laptop computer to wi fi is the way you have to do it now, if you have winter driving to face, since you're not likely to find a local station giving conditions with any regularity in rural America.
And then give most of the rest of the displaced AM operators space on an expanded, former TV channel 5 and 6 FM band, comparable to their current coverage areas. (Which would probably be a lot of class A and lower FMs to replicate the 1 and 5 kw AM contours.) Probably give them a limited license period, in case outfits that would going to go under for more reasons than bad AM signals don't make it anyway as a local FM. And leave room to clean up some problem FM assignments, and to let some new folks get licensed to do their things on the new FM band, too.
This isn't really much different from what a number of other countries have done with AM radio, and some with longwave, all along. Instead of jamming up the dial with too much noise from so many smaller AM stations that don't really serve much of a significant purpose. Which is what we have today, and drives dial surfers AWAY from AM.
And still realize than FM is going to be where most of the people in any one market are going to be anyway. So some AM-FM simulcasting may still be required.
Whatever happened to the incentive to donate an occasional AM signal to an noncomm broadcaster? Of couse, it can't be just any AM signal anymore. Even the community radio folks are usually wise to the money pit of maintaining a low wattage daytimer.
But, back to the topic at hand... I could see AM 1550 becoming a repeater for either KQED (to help counter its severe multipath issues everywhere), or, maybe, to extend KALW's reach down the peninsula, and around the backside of some hills. The 1550 signal is not as bad as a lot of other AMs, despite the high dial position. Just doesn't go very far south or east of the hills. I used to hear it fine north of Santa Rosa, and I think most car listeners can still get a decent signal on it for up to 80 miles north of San Mateo.
Then again, there's nothing wrong with having a oldies station on AM that gets to a small but loyal audience. If that's what's happening with it now, and the licensee can make a modest profit off of it.
Of course, once there's an easy model for programming internet radio streams into a car and kitchen radio, the industry, and the cluttered bands, will have to change quickly, or it can rapidly become even more irrelevant to people equipped with new internet-streaming radios. Which means it's time to start planning a revamped dial NOW.
IT sure would be nice if they dropped the "True Oldies Bull _ _ _ _" and simucasted KYAA 1200.
Mike
Mike
K
kenrayc
Guest
Michael Rivers Kramer said:
Also 1550 KXEX Fresno.
kenrayc said:
KSMO / KEAR San Mateo, which became KOBY in San Francisco, was on the air before 1948, as was the Tijuana station. KXEX did not appear until around 1961 and had to protect San Francisco and Tijuana.
Goldilocks94941 said:
What has happened in many countries is that AM has been virtually eliminated based on the better quality of FM, the ability of RDS receivers to search for the best frequency for networks, etc. Canada has eliminated about 65% of its AMs, and Mexico is trying to eliminate about 95% of them over the next two years. The reasoning is that AM is not viable save a few specific cases in today's environment.
The daytimer may actually be the better gift. A higher power fulltime directional station requires lots of possibly expensive land, real estate taxes, costly engineering, etc., etc. The good non-directional stations are not being given away, yet, as they tend to be among the few viable AMs today.
When KALW sees that it beats KGO in everything but the advanced geezer ages, they are not going to want an AM, nor would they want the huge expense of maintaining a directional array.
DavidKaye said:
I guess I'm a good example of why AM is dying. I'm a fan of KPIG. Do I ever listen to it on AM? Never.
After years of listening to news, information and talk on KQED and KALW, I find AM sound quality irritating -even for talk formats, though I listen to KGO from time to time. And I'm one of those "geezers" David Eduardo is talking about...though I'm not sure I've reached "advanced geezer" status yet.
I would like to hear JMF on KFRC...... Scott is boring
What do you expect from a guy that voice tracks 24 hours a day? How many days before Johnny Mack would suck doing that? I am not a big Shannon fan, but in this case, it's not his fault. The syndicator is a super cheapskate for not having at least different jocks track shifts throughout the day. Better yet, (Gasp) how about live jocks hosting? That would actually be entertaining...what a concept!
SFStatic said:
You make it sound like Shannon is up and working 24/7. People used to think that about Wolfman Jack in the 60s - he was the only jock on XERB, morning-noon-and-night. Of course, in his day, he'd record the shows in real time on reel-to-reel tape, and somebody would drive the tapes for 3 hours across the Mexican border to the station at Rosarita Beach.
My understanding of modern VT technology is that a 4 hour show can be recorded in less than an hour. And I'm sure the recordings are repeated often.
A fast count of his affiliates (from the True Oldies website) shows about 75 - many in small markets. This is Shannon's main business and I would think he's making some decent money doing it.
http://www.trueoldieschannel.com/
Lkeller said:
Llew:
I think SFStatic's point was not that Scott's overworked, but that anyone who tracks something 24/7, no mater how little time it takes, is simply going to run out of material and become stale very quickly. Especially in a format where nothing new is happening in terms of music for you to bounce off of and be creative with.
There's not a jock on earth who could keep it interesting for long.
I understand that may have been his main point, Michael. But putting Shannon's "cheapskate syndicator" aside, my impression is that True Oldies is Shannon's baby. Perhaps he doesn't want to cut into his own profits by hiring other jocks.
And in this modern radio world we all complain about (jocks rarely opening the mic, and always reading liners, etc.), is True Oldies really any different than your average music station in regard to being "stale?" I'm not sure it is.
I wasn't a big Wolfman fan....for one thing, I hated his gimmick of opening the mic while the songs were playing and singing along. But I didn't get the impression that he got stale for his fans. And that was in the day when most of his competition ran live DJs 24/7.
And in this modern radio world we all complain about (jocks rarely opening the mic, and always reading liners, etc.), is True Oldies really any different than your average music station in regard to being "stale?" I'm not sure it is.
I wasn't a big Wolfman fan....for one thing, I hated his gimmick of opening the mic while the songs were playing and singing along. But I didn't get the impression that he got stale for his fans. And that was in the day when most of his competition ran live DJs 24/7.
That's funny because this morning for three hours I was listening to KFRC 1550 and he was doing a great job keeping it interesting! Although it would be great if dougie poo would let loose of some cash to have a real morning show on the station! Oh! I forgot this is CBS Radio!
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