RDS Versus HD Radio/IBOC

[700WLW]

I don't want to open a can of worms for you but have you ever heard of Wi-fi or the soon to be available in most major cities around the world Wi-max? But for the time being I guess the way to enjoy these many audio sources is to burn them to cds to play in your car. Or get Sirius or XM Satellite radio.

"Meet your new competition"

"And demand for all Internet services - not simply audio - will drive product development, marketing, and sales. In other words, the platform will not have to be sold. It will just have to be bought. And that's a key distinction differentiating these services from satellite and HD radio - both of which need both selling and buying. And right now there's a whole lot of the former going on and not enough of the latter. By necessity, satellite is already branching into video and WiFi solutions while HD radio is still trying to emerge from its shell."

http://www.hear2.com/2006/12/meet_your_new_c.html

 

[Mike Walker]

"Funny you didn't know this"...700? Were you speaking to me? I WORK IN RADIO, dammit! Don't tell me what I know and don't. RDS is a decade and a half old. I had an RDS tuner in 1995. Nearly every station around here has used RDS for something for nearly a decade...including every station I've produced for in the last nine years ('cept for the AMs). What's different is that RADIOS are finally starting to show up in large numbers with RDS. What was the impetus for that? Satellite, HD, and Internet radio...technologies which use meta-data to provide song titles/etc.

 

[700WLW]

"Funny you didn't know this"...700? Were you speaking to me? I WORK IN RADIO, dammit! Don't tell me what I know and don't. RDS is a decade and a half old. I had an RDS tuner in 1995. Nearly every station around here has used RDS for something for nearly a decade...including every station I've produced for in the last nine years ('cept for the AMs). What's different is that RADIOS are finally starting to show up in large numbers with RDS. What was the impetus for that? Satellite, HD, and Internet radio...technologies which use meta-data to provide song titles/etc.

RDS is almost exacly like HD Radio, except for the problematic HD channels - BTW, 80% of new cars are getting RDS and RDS is being integrated with iPods - HD Radio is too-little-too-late.

 

[700WLW]

"Funny you didn't know this"...700? Were you speaking to me? I WORK IN RADIO, dammit! Don't tell me what I know and don't. RDS is a decade and a half old. I had an RDS tuner in 1995. Nearly every station around here has used RDS for something for nearly a decade...including every station I've produced for in the last nine years ('cept for the AMs). What's different is that RADIOS are finally starting to show up in large numbers with RDS. What was the impetus for that? Satellite, HD, and Internet radio...technologies which use meta-data to provide song titles/etc.

"New Apple Patent for iPod Wireless Transmission"

"According to Macsimum News, Apple has filed a patent for a new wireless VHF/FM/RDS transmitter that will be added to the iPod."

"In Chicago, probably 3/5 of the major FM stations send song title and station ID information over RDS. It’s just a text datastream that’s slipped over the FM signal. A lot of cars already support it, but most people don’t even know it’s there, or know how to turn it on. RDS is also somewhat slow, maybe 20 char/sec on a good day. iPod sending song titles over RDS would be killer, but I wonder if it’s fast enough to handle UI tasks like menus."

http://www.gadgetreview.com/2006/01/new-apple-patent-for-ipod-wireless.html

Has HD Radio missed-the-boat ?

 

[700WLW]

"RDS-FM versus AM-SS - Data steam systems for radio More options"

"The unit was a Sangean WR-2 which was designed for table-top usage in the home. It is a robust device, that includes PLL tuning, memory present, external AMand FM antenna connections. What was most novel about the unit was it's inclusion of RDS - Radio Data System - for stations in the FM band. I had never heard of RDS before, and was fascinated to learn about this intriguing option which provides analogue (and Digital) radio signals with a complementary data stream which will display text information about the station your listening to on a digital display dial for radios."

"I'm sure Europe's Eureka 147 system (used on VHF/UHF) also has data functions. In both cases it's not technically RDS but serves a similar purpose. Here in the States, we have (unfortunately) a digital radio system called "IBOC", alternately "HD Radio". It contains provisions for "Program Associated Data" which is the digital equivalent of AMSS/RDS. A limited amount of data is available for MW IBOC stations - so far all I've seen is display of the station name (call letters). Ironically, while only maybe 1% of analog receivers sold in the US can receive the RDS transmissions of analog stations, in my experience 100% of the new IBOC receivers can!"

"In my experience with rental cars I have found that most GM cars have RDS radios. Pretty much all car radios from recent years are RDS compatible. It's uncommon on home receivers though. LW reception is now also fairly common on car stereos."

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....9461f8decd8c0?lnk=raot&hl=en#a0e9461f8decd8c0

"RDS ??"

"My car radio is RDS equipped and here in the DC suburbs there are maybe 10 stations on which I've seen RDS messages. Just call letters or nickname, like "98Rock" or "99.1HFS" and sometimes format info on the next "page". The reach of a station's RDS seems to be much shorter than the radio station's signal. Also, I have been tuned to one station (non-RDS) and had the data from another RDS-broadcasting station whose transmitter was within a mile show up on the display. It can get confusing sometimes if you're listening to a news station and you happen to notice the display saying "Religious" or "Classical".

http://groups.google.com/group/rec....b?lnk=gst&q=rds&rnum=5&hl=en#0f38b18c1a20902b

 

[EasyPeazy]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

 

[700WLW]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver..."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

Sure, doesn't look that way - they sure aren't going to be installing HD Radio !

 

[EasyPeazy]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver..."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

Sure, doesn't look that way - they sure aren't going to be installing HD Radio !

All I can tell you is my 2007 Toyota doesn't have RDS. I didn't notice until after I had bought it and I was a little surprised.

I did some checking and found out 2005 was the last year for RDS in many Toyota models - including mine.

Say whatever you want guy - that's an indisputable fact. My brand, spankin' new Toyota doesn't have RDS.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver..."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

Sure, doesn't look that way - they sure aren't going to be installing HD Radio !

All I can tell you is my 2007 Toyota doesn't have RDS. I didn't notice until after I had bought it and I was a little surprised.

I did some checking and found out 2005 was the last year for RDS in many Toyota models - including mine.

Say whatever you want guy - that's an indisputable fact. My brand, spankin' new Toyota doesn't have RDS.

Much more to the main topic point of this board, your 2007 "brand, spankin' new Toyota" does not have HD Radio!
Will Toyota make HD Radio standard in the 2008, or even the 2009 models?
Doubtful as well. So spank Toyota.
As with all HD supporters, your posts are contradictory, and just intended to peddle an incompatible, unnecessary, destructive product to the public.
Stop air pollution! Tell the iBiquity/HD radio cartel to BUZZ OFF!
You are apparently burning CD's of HD Radio from your indoor HD Radio, to listen in your car, (no car HD Radio) so what is the difference if you burn them from an indoor HD Radio, or direct from the webstream?
Most of the analog and HD stations webstreams are available on the web, as well as tens of thousands of other internet audio choices.

 

[EasyPeazy]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver..."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

Sure, doesn't look that way - they sure aren't going to be installing HD Radio !

All I can tell you is my 2007 Toyota doesn't have RDS. I didn't notice until after I had bought it and I was a little surprised.

I did some checking and found out 2005 was the last year for RDS in many Toyota models - including mine.

Say whatever you want guy - that's an indisputable fact. My brand, spankin' new Toyota doesn't have RDS.

Much more to the main topic point of this board, your 2007 "brand, spankin' new Toyota" does not have HD Radio!
Will Toyota make HD Radio standard in the 2008, or even the 2009 models?
Doubtful as well. So spank Toyota.

Oh, but my Toyota does have HD Radio. The factory radio didn't last long.

HD Radio will become standard just as soon as iBiquity opens up the checkbook and writes Toyota a big, fat one.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver..."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

Sure, doesn't look that way - they sure aren't going to be installing HD Radio !

All I can tell you is my 2007 Toyota doesn't have RDS. I didn't notice until after I had bought it and I was a little surprised.

I did some checking and found out 2005 was the last year for RDS in many Toyota models - including mine.

Say whatever you want guy - that's an indisputable fact. My brand, spankin' new Toyota doesn't have RDS.

Much more to the main topic point of this board, your 2007 "brand, spankin' new Toyota" does not have HD Radio!
Will Toyota make HD Radio standard in the 2008, or even the 2009 models?
Doubtful as well. So spank Toyota.

Oh, but my Toyota does have HD Radio. The factory radio didn't last long.

HD Radio will become standard just as soon as iBiquity opens up the checkbook and writes Toyota a big, fat one.

No chance of that happening.
Nor a big check from Cheap Channel, either.

So now you are saying your new Toyota does have RDS?
The point is that your new 2007 Toyota did not come standard with HD Radio (the main topic here) and you agree that HD Radio's will not be standard on Toyotas anytime in the near future, unless "iBiquity opens up the checkbook and writes Toyota a big, fat one."
Corruption, bribery, lobbyists, influence peddling, all hallmarks of a seriously deficient, incompatible, HD Radio technology that customers simply do not want.

 

[700WLW]

Toyota is phasing out RDS. Many models that had it in 2005 do not have it in 2006 or 2007.

Being one of the world's top automakers, what do you suppose the future holds for RDS?

"Kensington® Unveils the World's First RDS FM Transmitter for iPod®"

"According to Kensington's Sena, "RDS is now available in most vehicle models offered by leading US and foreign automakers. Our research indicates that over 80% of all new cars being sold in the US include RDS enabled stereos. RDS is a hugely popular feature and is quickly becoming mainstream. The new Kensington RDS FM Transmitter is the first to allow iPod consumers to take advantage of this exciting car stereo technology."

http://www.cardcam.com/html/11431.html

"What is RDS ?"

"Now in 2006 the forecast is that each year more than 100 million new RDS radios will be sold worldwide. RDS has by now conquered all receiver price classes and one can easily imagine that it will soon be part of the standard equipment of any radio receiver..."

http://www.rds.org.uk/rds98/whatisrds.htm

Sure, doesn't look that way - they sure aren't going to be installing HD Radio !

All I can tell you is my 2007 Toyota doesn't have RDS. I didn't notice until after I had bought it and I was a little surprised.

I did some checking and found out 2005 was the last year for RDS in many Toyota models - including mine.

Say whatever you want guy - that's an indisputable fact. My brand, spankin' new Toyota doesn't have RDS.

Much more to the main topic point of this board, your 2007 "brand, spankin' new Toyota" does not have HD Radio!
Will Toyota make HD Radio standard in the 2008, or even the 2009 models?
Doubtful as well. So spank Toyota.

Oh, but my Toyota does have HD Radio. The factory radio didn't last long.

HD Radio will become standard just as soon as iBiquity opens up the checkbook and writes Toyota a big, fat one.

Then your HD Radio is after-market - no car manufacturers, outside of BMW, offer HD Radio as standard, or optional equipment - as the article pointed out, HD Radio has had little success getting in-dash.

 

[chriscoxradio]

Then your HD Radio is after-market - no car manufacturers, outside of BMW, offer HD Radio as standard, or optional equipment - as the article pointed out, HD Radio has had little success getting in-dash.

Exactly. HD Radio is going to take a while to get in cars. You can't just expect instant success. Personally, I like my HD Radio. I like the fact that I can get FM radio in even better quality than it is. Also, except for the title streaming, RDS is nowhere close to HD Radio. And how about this, WLW, why not get an HD radio, try it out, and post what you think about it instead of badmouthing it.

 

[Mike Walker]

AM Stereo was approveded in 1982...(although the FCC approved ALL FOUR competing systems, preventing all from really "taking off" in this country. But AM stereo is doing just fine in other countries. Many of 'em). It was about 1984 when it appeared in GM cars. It took XM and Sirius a lot longer than that to reach agreements with many car makers. "Under the table" tends to be how these things happen, unfortunately. There is no consumer demand for a product UNTIL THEY'VE BEEN EXPOSED TO THE PRODUCT. GM knows that.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

Then your HD Radio is after-market - no car manufacturers, outside of BMW, offer HD Radio as standard, or optional equipment - as the article pointed out, HD Radio has had little success getting in-dash.

Exactly. HD Radio is going to take a while to get in cars. You can't just expect instant success. Personally, I like my HD Radio. I like the fact that I can get FM radio in even better quality than it is. Also, except for the title streaming, RDS is nowhere close to HD Radio. And how about this, WLW, why not get an HD radio, try it out, and post what you think about it instead of badmouthing it.

The local electronics dealers can't get AM or FM digital HD radio reception to work inside, even with a store full of antennas to choose from, and within sight of the broadcasting towers. So I think I'll pass on your ridiculous "challenge".

You don't have to buy a Yugo to know it is not reliable transportation (thank goodness). Any intelligent person learns from the experiences of others. Dummies don't.

Peddle your defective, problematic, destructive, incompatible, unnecessary, unwanted, HD radio system elsewhere.

Consider your product "EXPOSED".

 

[chriscoxradio]

The local electronics dealers can't get AM or FM digital HD radio reception to work inside, even with a store full of antennas to choose from, and within sight of the broadcasting towers. So I think I'll pass on your ridiculous "challenge".

You don't have to buy a Yugo to know it is not reliable transportation (thank goodness). Any intelligent person learns from the experiences of others. Dummies don't.

Peddle your defective, problematic, destructive, incompatible, unnecessary, unwanted, HD radio system elsewhere.

Consider your product "EXPOSED".

The electronics dealers can not get the stations to work because of the same reason FM can barely work in buildings - the signal can't penetrate through the building. I'm 40 miles from the FM's here in Chicago, and I have no problems getting all of the FM stations in HD, on the Accurian, using the stock antenna.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

The local electronics dealers can't get AM or FM digital HD radio reception to work inside, even with a store full of antennas to choose from, and within sight of the broadcasting towers. So I think I'll pass on your ridiculous "challenge".

You don't have to buy a Yugo to know it is not reliable transportation (thank goodness). Any intelligent person learns from the experiences of others. Dummies don't.

Peddle your defective, problematic, destructive, incompatible, unnecessary, unwanted, HD radio system elsewhere.

Consider your product "EXPOSED".

The electronics dealers can not get the stations to work because of the same reason FM can barely work in buildings - the signal can't penetrate through the building. I'm 40 miles from the FM's here in Chicago, and I have no problems getting all of the FM stations in HD, on the Accurian, using the stock antenna.

The local electronics stores have no problems getting all the local analog FM stations indoors, but no HD digital reception.
Some of the low power AM stations are a little noisy. But again, no AM HD on the higher powered AM stations within a few miles of their transmission towers.
No indoor AM or FM HD reception, even in a single story masonry building, with all their equipment off, just before closing up, and setting the burglar alarm.

iBiquity/HD is just a bad joke.