Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Here's a recording I made THIS MORNING of the AM audio from the Grundig S350. I never make claims I can't back up. This is what WKSK (West Jefferson, NC) sounds like on MY Grundig S350 in Boomer, NC...Wilkes County, about 30 miles away (WKSK is 5kw on 580khz. Though a small station in the NC mountains, they have a BIG-ASS SIGNAL...any radio dude knows that 5kw on this end of the dial goes like 50kw at the top!) Their audio is state of the art. Their air chain is pristine. Their processing is via a spankin' new digital Optimod, into a brand new 5kw Harris transmitter, and a brand new tower/antenna system, replacing the one that had stood on "radio hill" for more than four decades.

http://www.theproductionroom.net/wksk.wma

As I said...the audio quality on AM is reason enough to own it! Audio recorded from the line output into an Archos Gmini 402 digital recorder as uncompressed wav, transferred to my PC via usb, edited and compressed to wma with Adobe Audition in my studio.

Yea, the S350 does have excellent audio, and is very sensitive on the AM band, so if one can put up with all the other flaws, then I'll give you that ! I'm just partly giving you a hard time, so I guess we can be friends over here, since you are a fellow AM DX'er, but enemies on the HD Board ! So, do you just support IBOC on the FM band, and not on AM (I get that impression) - if so, it seems hard to support just one, since iBiquity comsiders it a failure, if IBOC is not implemented 24/7 on both bands. But, you know, as well as I do, that we can kiss this hobby good-bye, if nighttime AM IBOC get approved, and some AM stations actually sign-up for IBOC - it's off to Canada I go !

http://www.northpine.com/broadcast/50kwam.html

Luckily, there are plenty of Canadian stations, in reach of Maryland...

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

I wouldn't call the S350 "excellent" in any respect other than audio quality and sensitivity. And if you want to nitpick, I suppose sensitivity could be brought down to "very good".

They DID solve the drift problem in later models. Mine drifts by maybe 1khz (sometimes, sometimes not) the first half-hour or so (on AM), and then is rock solid the rest of the day.

I notice the Sony ICF-SW7600GR and Grundig YB400 BOTH made the "most overrated" list, as did many other excellent radios. The problem with lists like this is the same as with "most admired" and "most hated" lists of politicians or other favorite people. Since these radios are best-sellers, hence well known, your favorite/my favorite is likely to turn up on both lists.

Case in point...Hillary Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and probably Jimmy Carter would almost certainly turn up on any "most admired", AND "most hated" list. Popular shows like "American Idol" would also likely turn up on any "best" list, as well as any "worst". The problem with fame is, it cuts both ways!

Before you get rid of any other radios 700, drop me a line. You know what they say..."one man's trash is another man's treasure".

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

I wouldn't call the S350 "excellent" in any respect other than audio quality and sensitivity. And if you want to nitpick, I suppose sensitivity could be brought down to "very good".

They DID solve the drift problem in later models. Mine drifts by maybe 1khz (sometimes, sometimes not) the first half-hour or so (on AM), and then is rock solid the rest of the day.

I notice the Sony ICF-SW7600GR and Grundig YB400 BOTH made the "most overrated" list, as did many other excellent radios. The problem with lists like this is the same as with "most admired" and "most hated" lists of politicians or other favorite people. Since these radios are best-sellers, hence well known, your favorite/my favorite is likely to turn up on both lists.

Case in point...Hillary Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and probably Jimmy Carter would almost certainly turn up on any "most admired", AND "most hated" list. Popular shows like "American Idol" would also likely turn up on any "best" list, as well as any "worst". The problem with fame is, it cuts both ways!

Before you get rid of any other radios 700, drop me a line. You know what they say..."one man's trash is another man's treasure".

All analog radios drift - that kludged fix for the S350, just causes ergonomic problems, because it is always a race with the lock mechanism, and one has to fight to get it off the stations, then the dial zooms past, and the radio still drifts. The only others, I now have, are some RS digital PLL radios, but they are on the shelf, due to my excellent $10 Sony ICF-S10MK2. The S350's tuning mechanism is neanderthal, as it is totally outdated - even my $10 Sony, has a tuning strip, so it doesn't suffer, as the S350. 86 people responded to the RadioIntel survey, and after owning the piece-of-garbage S350 myself, I'll take their word, over yours. Sony receivers are far superior to Grundig/Tescun/Eton chinese-made, over-priced garbage - remember, the Degen 1103 is virtually the same radio, as the Eton/Grundig E5/G5, and is $45 + $25 shipping - the E5/G5 is $150 ! The S350 is cheap, low-grade plastic, plastic speaker grill, smelly imitation-leather handle, cheap dials and switches prone to breaking off, low-resolution display, glitzy filters that do nothing but muffle the excellent audio, and a cheap single-conversion superhet filled with images and birdies:

http://www.radiointel.com/results2.htm

With the Sony 7600GR, all that is being complained about, is that the sync/det is not all, that it is cracked up to be - look at the comprehensive list of complaints for the S350 ! For $25 more, the Sony offers dual-conversion, PLL, sync/det, and SSB with USB/LSB, and is much better quality !And what, do the Presidents have to do with this discussion - slick move ! Sony rules !

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Electrically yes, there are great similarities between the Kaito 1103 and the Eton E5/Grundig G5. The Eton/Grundig is based upon the earlier (but still current) 1103. But operationally the Eton E5/Grundig G5 is in a completely different league. There is a dedicated volume control. Sounds like a laughable claim...after all, what radio doesn't have a dedicated volume control? Atwater Kent had that in 1923! Well I'll tell you...the Kaito 1103 doesn't have a dedicated volume control! That's one of the many oddities of the user interface on the 1103...which must have been designed as a test-bed for a Candid Camera segment ("our cameras filmed as people tried to figure out how the hell to work this confusing radio!")

With the E5/G5 the user interface is so improved that, even though the radio has many tuning modes, is technically sophisticated, and has many features, I have NEVER needed to crack the owner's manual in order to accomplish a task. That's a pretty good test for whether your user interface is well designed.

I get that you don't like the Eton E5/Grundig G5...but please don't call it junk. It is a recommended product in Passport to World Band Radio, can be demonstrated to have better fm reception and sound quality than the ICF-SW7600GR, is at least it's equal in terms of shortwave and am sensitivity (mine is more sensitive than my ICF-SW7600GR), has a cleaner, wider range audio amplifier (no bass rolloff through headphones...important to ME, because I do most of my listening through headphones), etc. Also the Kaito has an electronic pushbutton "step" volume control which many people don't like as well as a rotary potentiometer, but I like it better BECAUSE, again since I listen mostly through headphones, left/right balance are perfect to the lowest level...rare on an analog control in an inexpensive radio.

If you listen to lots of talk radio at night, or in an area where the AM dial is pretty full, then the sync detector, and sync-selectable sideband in the Sony can be useful. If, however, you listen to MUSIC on AM, and do that primarily in the daytime (as I do), then the Eton E5/Grundig G5 is hands down a better performer...particularly in a rural area like mine where the AM dial is anything but full. Sound quality on AM is simply better than the Sony, and bass is VERY extended through headphones (ALL Sony shortwave portables in my experience rolloff bass for some reason. NOT true of their other portable radios, like the SRF-M35 Walkman, which has great bass response).

So perhaps our impressions of the Eton/Grundig model are different because our priorities, listening habits, and locations are so different, 700. But just because you don't like a particular radio doesn't make it "junk". And the term "Chinese Junk" is kind of offensive...especially since any objective look would confirm that Chinese made radios are leagues better than those of just a few years back, and close to the very top. THE TOP RATED PORTABLE in Passport to World Band Ratio, the Eton E1, is made in China! It has THE best performing sync detector of any portable, outstanding audio, is at the top in all performance specs (sensitivity, selectivity, filter characteristics), and even receives XM. When the best radio made is made in China, it's time to stop bashing Chinese radios as a group!

I almost never use my ICF-SW7600GR any more because my Eton E5 gives more pleasure to me, the way I listen. So for me, it's certainly not junk. And the user interface is critically important to me, because I'm legally blind. I have HORRID eyesight...so the extra money over the 1103 is certainly not "wasted". It's the difference between being able to use the radio easily, and hours of frustration trying to sort through key-pushes, squinting to see what I'm doing. Don't dismiss the specific preferences of others, 700. Neither you, nor I, are the ultimate judge of what is trash and what is treasure. I own most of the radios in that list of "most overrated". While I can see the point of people who complained, the list actually includes some of the BEST (performing...objectively, through measured results) radios made. Hence my claim that the best known models will usually make both best AND worst lists. I stand by that. It's true with radios, and people.

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Electrically yes, there are great similarities between the Kaito 1103 and the Eton E5/Grundig G5. The Eton/Grundig is based upon the earlier (but still current) 1103. But operationally the Eton E5/Grundig G5 is in a completely different league. There is a dedicated volume control. Sounds like a laughable claim...after all, what radio doesn't have a dedicated volume control? Atwater Kent had that in 1923! Well I'll tell you...the Kaito 1103 doesn't have a dedicated volume control! That's one of the many oddities of the user interface on the 1103...which must have been designed as a test-bed for a Candid Camera segment ("our cameras filmed as people tried to figure out how the hell to work this confusing radio!")

With the E5/G5 the user interface is so improved that, even though the radio has many tuning modes, is technically sophisticated, and has many features, I have NEVER needed to crack the owner's manual in order to accomplish a task. That's a pretty good test for whether your user interface is well designed.

I get that you don't like the Eton E5/Grundig G5...but please don't call it junk. It is a recommended product in Passport to World Band Radio, can be demonstrated to have better fm reception and sound quality than the ICF-SW7600GR, is at least it's equal in terms of shortwave and am sensitivity (mine is more sensitive than my ICF-SW7600GR), has a cleaner, wider range audio amplifier (no bass rolloff through headphones...important to ME, because I do most of my listening through headphones), etc. Also the Kaito has an electronic pushbutton "step" volume control which many people don't like as well as a rotary potentiometer, but I like it better BECAUSE, again since I listen mostly through headphones, left/right balance are perfect to the lowest level...rare on an analog control in an inexpensive radio.

If you listen to lots of talk radio at night, or in an area where the AM dial is pretty full, then the sync detector, and sync-selectable sideband in the Sony can be useful. If, however, you listen to MUSIC on AM, and do that primarily in the daytime (as I do), then the Eton E5/Grundig G5 is hands down a better performer...particularly in a rural area like mine where the AM dial is anything but full. Sound quality on AM is simply better than the Sony, and bass is VERY extended through headphones (ALL Sony shortwave portables in my experience rolloff bass for some reason. NOT true of their other portable radios, like the SRF-M35 Walkman, which has great bass response).

So perhaps our impressions of the Eton/Grundig model are different because our priorities, listening habits, and locations are so different, 700. But just because you don't like a particular radio doesn't make it "junk". And the term "Chinese Junk" is kind of offensive...especially since any objective look would confirm that Chinese made radios are leagues better than those of just a few years back, and close to the very top. THE TOP RATED PORTABLE in Passport to World Band Ratio, the Eton E1, is made in China! It has THE best performing sync detector of any portable, outstanding audio, is at the top in all performance specs (sensitivity, selectivity, filter characteristics), and even receives XM. When the best radio made is made in China, it's time to stop bashing Chinese radios as a group!

I almost never use my ICF-SW7600GR any more because my Eton E5 gives more pleasure to me, the way I listen. So for me, it's certainly not junk. And the user interface is critically important to me, because I'm legally blind. I have HORRID eyesight...so the extra money over the 1103 is certainly not "wasted". It's the difference between being able to use the radio easily, and hours of frustration trying to sort through key-pushes, squinting to see what I'm doing. Don't dismiss the specific preferences of others, 700. Neither you, nor I, are the ultimate judge of what is trash and what is treasure. I own most of the radios in that list of "most overrated". While I can see the point of people who complained, the list actually includes some of the BEST (performing...objectively, through measured results) radios made. Hence my claim that the best known models will usually make both best AND worst lists. I stand by that. It's true with radios, and people.

Well, to spend $150 for an over-priced Eton E5/G5, versus $65 for the Degen 1103, just because it has an improved software interface, it just plain foolish - they are basically the same radio:

http://www.radiointel.com/review-etone5.htm

These are cheap plastic throw-away receivers - it is not like the quality receivers of the 70s/80s, such as, the RS DX-440 and the Sony ICF-SW2010 ! See, one can buy two Degen 1103s, for the price of one Eton E5, because when the Eton shatters from being dropped, or just stops plain working, there would be a second Degen 1003, as a backup. The Eton E1 is another over-priced totally plastic (with wobbly knobs) receiver, that for $400 - $500, doesn't even come with internal ferrite-bar, or Satellite Radio antennas - ridiculous, at that price ! Sony is the only manufacturer that makes quality receivers these days - Grundig/Tecsun/Eton are over-priced plastic garbage, especially the S350 ! To be able to get sync/det, PLL, and USB/LSB for SSB, for as little as $125, is unbeatable in the Sony 7600GR ! My $10 Sony ICF-S10MK2 is, as sensitive as, my now-returned $100 S350

 

[Mike Walker]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

Yeah these radios are "cheap plastic" as opposed to radios like the DX440 and ICF-SW2010, which everyone knows were made of unobtanium.

I owned a DX440. The E5 is in a different league from the 440, which performed well, but was in fact rather cheaply made (and had, just as with the Sonys, bass that fell like a rock through the headphone jack...even though there was a "bass" control).

It's more than the "software user interface" that's different. Have you compared these radios? The harware buttons are completely different, as is the display...all vastly improved on the E5. The number and placement of controls is different. The size and shape of the cabinet is different. The internal electronics are NOT the same. For one thing, the E5 has A THOUSAND MEMORIES. Now how many does that Sony have? And they're randomly assignable...not "10 am, 20 shortwave, 10 fm" like many shortwave portables, whose designs haven't been updated in years. And have you held an E5 or G5 in your hand? There's a luxurious, rubberized feel that is actually warm to the touch, and comfortable, rather than hard/cold/cheap plastic. It feels good in your hand. Another aesthetic touch, but these things add up. As I'm fond of advising headphone buyers (I'm a bit of a headphone expert, having spent 8 or more hours a day for more than 30 years wearing them)..."if it isn't comfortable, it makes no difference what it sounds like...you won't use it."

So, being legally blind (as I explained) you still call me "foolish" for choosing a verion of the radio with a user interface that I can actually use with my limited vision? I explained to you why it's worth the extra money TO ME, with my disability, and in return was called "foolish". May you never have to find out how much something like a clean, simple user interface is worth when you lose your vision. Honestly, 250 dollars wouldn't be too much for a product I can USE. Blindness certainly changes your perspective about value!

 

[romer979fm]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

[What, a piece-of-work !

I think you'd still slam anything IBOC even if it was proven to cure cancer.
Every post.
Every time.
No matter what the subject...you're in to slam IBOC.
Someone mentions a beautiful sunset...the reply is "but after sunset AMs turn off the IBOC"
You get the idea...we all get it. Repeating the same info...even if it's correct...it mind-numbing.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

reduced frequency response, high distortion, poor stereo separation, (in the case of AM Stereo R.I.P),.

WRONG. AM stereo suffered from none of the problems you listed. In fact, a significant number of AM stereo listeners - myself included - preferred AM stereo sound quality to FM stereo. If a stationhad both FM and AM stereo outlets playing the same programming, I would tune in the AM stereo station, particularly in the fringes where AM stereo reception was much more robust than FM.

Just setting the record straight ---

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

IDEA - let's have the shortwave band convert to IBOC! And see how many people don't care about adjacents.

 

[Len14043]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

reduced frequency response, high distortion, poor stereo separation, (in the case of AM Stereo R.I.P),.

WRONG. AM stereo suffered from none of the problems you listed. In fact, a significant number of AM stereo listeners - myself included - preferred AM stereo sound quality to FM stereo. If a stationhad both FM and AM stereo outlets playing the same programming, I would tune in the AM stereo station, particularly in the fringes where AM stereo reception was much more robust than FM.

Just setting the record straight ---

You have got to be kidding. I won a AM stereo radio from a station that was heavily promoting AM stereo back in the 80s. This station was a graveyard on 1230. I remember the massive co-channel interference and lightning static - in stereo. Increasing the frequency range of a noisy signal makes it sound worse. There is a good reason why AM radios are typically limited to 5khz response. AM stereo is the best example of putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[Len14043]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

IDEA - let's have the shortwave band convert to IBOC! And see how many people don't care about adjacents.

If the all-digital mode was allowed, people probably wouldn't care.

 

[700WLW]

Re: The problem with HD detractors here -Short Wave

IDEA - let's have the shortwave band convert to IBOC! And see how many people don't care about adjacents.

If the all-digital mode was allowed, people probably wouldn't care.

With the lack of consumer interest in digital radio, that will never happen.