Is it me or is it something being done to "all" the oldies, found on certain stations? If let's say John Doe wants to set up an oldies format, does John simply go to a website/production company that provides OLDIES and he simply checks the boxes next to the songs he wants, (like you do on a I-phone or Android music player to make a playlist)? I would guess that the oldies that this service provides would have "cleaned" or at least provided the latest version(s) available on CD or latest method of broadcast quality reproduction, so therefore the "Sound" will be uniform on all songs and be able to be "tweaked" to make the music sound "fresh" instead of antique sounding having been recorded in 1958, 1962 or later before more uniform standards were set into place. I've always thought that the oldies from the 50's, 60's & early seventies were dropped from oldies formats due to #1 the aging audience, but also due to the overall sound quality. Competitor stations wanted to provide clear well produced music over their stations and therefore the old 45's and 33's were re-mastered and thus the music began to sound different??? Today perhaps a station can decide to run all the music available through their own computer and tweak the overall output to make a casual listener tuning by the station, and get him to stop and give it a chance. Another thing, why did the Beatles re-master their classics? I liked the old "stereo sound" where the voices and musical instruments were separated on the left and right channels. Other artists in the past did it too... Mamas & Papas, Gary Lewis & the Playboys and etc., some recordings are now in "Mono". COMMENTS???
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kenb said:Is it me or is it something being done to "all" the oldies, found on certain stations? If let's say John Doe wants to set up an oldies format, does John simply go to a website/production company that provides OLDIES and he simply checks the boxes next to the songs he wants, (like you do on a I-phone or Android music player to make a playlist)? I would guess that the oldies that this service provides would have "cleaned" or at least provided the latest version(s) available on CD or latest method of broadcast quality reproduction, so therefore the "Sound" will be uniform on all songs and be able to be "tweaked" to make the music sound "fresh" instead of antique sounding having been recorded in 1958, 1962 or later before more uniform standards were set into place. I've always thought that the oldies from the 50's, 60's & early seventies were dropped from oldies formats due to #1 the aging audience, but also due to the overall sound quality. Competitor stations wanted to provide clear well produced music over their stations and therefore the old 45's and 33's were re-mastered and thus the music began to sound different??? Today perhaps a station can decide to run all the music available through their own computer and tweak the overall output to make a casual listener tuning by the station, and get him to stop and give it a chance. Another thing, why did the Beatles re-master their classics? I liked the old "stereo sound" where the voices and musical instruments were separated on the left and right channels. Other artists in the past did it too... Mamas & Papas, Gary Lewis & the Playboys and etc., some recordings are now in "Mono". COMMENTS???
Generally, a station would go to a company that had entire music formats on a library of compilation CDs (anywhere from 20 to 50 CDs or so, and maybe 200-300 songs or more, depending on format). Or the station would order an entire format's worth of songs on hard drive. The station's music director would then pick which songs they wanted from the format, and add those songs to their on-air playlist.
Sometimes a station which purchased a format -- like say, oldies -- would have certain songs they wanted that weren't already on the supplier's 'oldies' format. Then the supplier company would make custom CDs with those songs on them.
The reason the sound changed is because of the CD. The first prominent oldies CDs available for radio stations were taken from records or reel tape. Usually they used the best version they could find. They would be cleaned up if necessary. As the record companies began to release more of their oldies catalog to CD, stations and format supplier companies would use those versions because they were often from the original masters.
Sometimes the songs were in stereo, because stereo is usually preferable on FM radio. Sometimes they would be in mono, to stay true to the original version of the song, as it was originally played on radio when it was a hit. The versions played on the radio usually depended on the wishes of the station's music director.
That at least was the way it was done up until the 2000's. The way music is supplied to radio stations now is probably different. I think now it's all downloaded from wherever.....
As for the Beatles catalog, the first several albums were originally released in mono on CD because that's the way EMI (and the Beatles) wanted them released -- because those particular original British LPs were in mono.
I have a Teenagers w Frankie Lymon LP on Gee, an obvious re-issue, and all songs sound original. However when taping or putting on CD, there is a significant greater output on one channel, easy to correct on my cassette recorder, but not possible without a balance control on my CD recorder. First of all, how did these cuts get in stereo? It is neither the gray or red label listed in guide but a tan label. It's Gee 701. I have no issues with the quality other than it needs more volume boost when listening or recording. Anybody have any comments?
howardm said:I have a Teenagers w Frankie Lymon LP on Gee, an obvious re-issue, and all songs sound original. However when taping or putting on CD, there is a significant greater output on one channel, easy to correct on my cassette recorder, but not possible without a balance control on my CD recorder. First of all, how did these cuts get in stereo? It is neither the gray or red label listed in guide but a tan label. It's Gee 701. I have no issues with the quality other than it needs more volume boost when listening or recording. Anybody have any comments?
Sounds like that reissue is in reprocessed simulated stereo, with the high frequencies equalized on one channel and the bass frequencies equalized on the other.
And Roulette who owned Gee, Rama, & End records was never the best company for quality mastering and vinyl (it was ran by mobsters!)
howardm said:Not that nice man, Morris Levy, owner of Roulette. I'm shocked. Ha.
LOL Tommy James has written a nice book about him and his company ;D. I remember picking up a couple of Alan Freed and Golden Goodies albums reissued on Roulette in the 70's and though they never said it on the cover, they were all in simulated stereo.
billyg said:howardm said:Not that nice man, Morris Levy, owner of Roulette. I'm shocked. Ha.
LOL Tommy James has written a nice book about him and his company ;D. I remember picking up a couple of Alan Freed and Golden Goodies albums reissued on Roulette in the 70's and though they never said it on the cover, they were all in simulated stereo.
Roulette wasn't the only record company that reprocessed mono into fake stereo. Most companies did it, and most listed in on the cover. RCA used "electronically reprocessed". Capitol used "Duophonic". It was strictly a marketing ploy. 45 rpms were king in the '50s and early '60s. and the songs were recorded in mono. Record players were mono, juke boxes were mono, and AM radio was mono. FM stereo and LPs didn't really take off until the mid-'60s. Then stereo became a factor. Record companies wanted to sell their older music to people who had just bought stereo players, so they invented fake stereo. In the day, it was a novelty and sounded better than mono. Now we know better.
TheFonz said:Roulette wasn't the only record company that reprocessed mono into fake stereo. Most companies did it, and most listed in on the cover. RCA used "electronically reprocessed". Capitol used "Duophonic". It was strictly a marketing ploy. 45 rpms were king in the '50s and early '60s. and the songs were recorded in mono. Record players were mono, juke boxes were mono, and AM radio was mono. FM stereo and LPs didn't really take off until the mid-'60s. Then stereo became a factor. Record companies wanted to sell their older music to people who had just bought stereo players, so they invented fake stereo. In the day, it was a novelty and sounded better than mono. Now we know better.
True, fake stereo was a gimmick to sell more records. And before smart CD mastering engineers like Bill Inglot (of Rhino Records) came along in the 80's who insisted using original mono master tapes almost all record companies used horrible fake stereo mixes for 70's-80's vinyl. Playing a song in fake stereo on Am radio easily wound up a muddy or echo-ey mess.
It was a revelation to me to hear Beatles songs like "I Feel Fine" in true stereo than the Duophonic mess Capitol made of them.
Actually, true 2 and 3 channel recording began in earnest in 1958. MGM and Capitol Records invested heavily in it, to the point it began bringing in its' artists to re-record their back catalogs...think Tommy Edwards and Sinatra. MANY of the great do-wop hits (58-62) are surprisingly, in true stereo. My Seeburg Jukebox is a '59 model (the one on the Chantels greatest Hits LP cover) and is stereo www.bing.com/images/search?q=seebur...C8DEEB3858C788F299D06786AFD618269F332&first=1.
FM Stereo was approved in '62, using the Zenith System of Multiplexing (it's not actual stereo, it's L+R & L-R).
Although indie labels like Roulette, Chess, Laurie and others had limited resources, their artists rented time in pretty sophisticated studios to record, stereo studios. This was made clear in the Tommy James book. Roulette didn't own a studio, just pressing plants. The exception was Cameo-Parkway...all mono except Rydell LIVE LP.
FM Stereo was approved in '62, using the Zenith System of Multiplexing (it's not actual stereo, it's L+R & L-R).
Although indie labels like Roulette, Chess, Laurie and others had limited resources, their artists rented time in pretty sophisticated studios to record, stereo studios. This was made clear in the Tommy James book. Roulette didn't own a studio, just pressing plants. The exception was Cameo-Parkway...all mono except Rydell LIVE LP.
amfmsw said:Although indie labels like Roulette, Chess, Laurie and others had limited resources, their artists rented time in pretty sophisticated studios to record, stereo studios. This was made clear in the Tommy James book. Roulette didn't own a studio, just pressing plants. The exception was Cameo-Parkway...all mono except Rydell LIVE LP.
Tommy used Allegro Studios in NYC for most of his recordings. There are some fun photos of the band recording there on the "Best Of Tommy James" LP.
Chess had their own studios at the famous 2120 South Michigan Avenue location in Chicago for many years, but they didn't start pressing stereo records until 1959.
I do have one Dee Dee Sharp album in stereo on Cameo. But it's a gospel album called "Songs Of Faith". Wonderfully recorded in nice wide stereo. If they only spent that much money and time when they recorded her big dance hits!
From what I read C/P used various studios around Philadelphia (Virtue Studios) before building their own studios in the early 60's. But they were like so many small indie labels who felt teenagers would only buy mono albums.
amfmsw said:MANY of the great do-wop hits (58-62) are surprisingly, in true stereo.
I'm not sure that there were a lot of doo-wop hits in the time period you mentioned. Most of the doo-wop I remember was pre-'58 (I hope this doesn't lead to a discussion about what is doo-wop). But if there were stereo recordings from '58-'62, they weren't being released as singles. Very few people had stereo players at that time.
TheFonz said:amfmsw said:MANY of the great do-wop hits (58-62) are surprisingly, in true stereo.
I'm not sure that there were a lot of doo-wop hits in the time period you mentioned. Most of the doo-wop I remember was pre-'58 (I hope this doesn't lead to a discussion about what is doo-wop). But if there were stereo recordings from '58-'62, they weren't being released as singles. Very few people had stereo players at that time.
True, a lot of them were mixed and released only in mono in 58-62 but they were recorded on stereo 2-track or 3-track multitrack recorders. Thankfully record companies like Roulette, Jubilee and Laurie kept their master tape libraries, so years later they could be remixed and released in true stereo.
For Stax/Volt afficianados (like me): Bear in mind that all of the songs recorded at their main East McLemore St. studio in Memphis (the famous converted movie theater) were in rather murky mono until the labels signed the Atlantic-Atco distribution deal in early 1965.
With this agreement, Stax gained access to the brilliant, legendary Atlantic engineer Tom Dowd, who over the course of several visits to Memphis whipped Stax into shape with full stereo capabilities. Note on the Atlantic CD "The Best of Sam and Dave," everything ahead of "Hold On, I'm Comin'" is in mono...after the first Dowd visit, everything else beginning with "Hold On..." is in stereo.
There's a book ("Sweet Soul Music") that relates Dowd's first visit to Stax, working on the old Ampex recorders while a fascinated Steve Cropper looks on.
With this agreement, Stax gained access to the brilliant, legendary Atlantic engineer Tom Dowd, who over the course of several visits to Memphis whipped Stax into shape with full stereo capabilities. Note on the Atlantic CD "The Best of Sam and Dave," everything ahead of "Hold On, I'm Comin'" is in mono...after the first Dowd visit, everything else beginning with "Hold On..." is in stereo.
There's a book ("Sweet Soul Music") that relates Dowd's first visit to Stax, working on the old Ampex recorders while a fascinated Steve Cropper looks on.
Is that King Bee, Ron Brittain, Ron Britoni? Formerly of WCFL and later AM 1690. Always enjoyed your personality on the radio. I grew up in Peoria market, but 1st Chgo station to play top 40 was WJJD, 1160, then WLS in 1960, and CFL probably in 63 or so. AM radio had real personality then, many local hits as I collect charts + records, it was exciting to listen to that but times change. My best to you. You may email me if you wish at [email protected]. Wish I'd have gotten that random King Bee call, I would hav known it was you.
Sorry...I am not that King Bee! I'm a broadcast engineer, teacher and musicologist from Louisville.
The King Bee said:Sorry...I am not that King Bee! I'm a broadcast engineer, teacher and musicologist from Louisville.
It's an interesting coincidence that you are not Ron Britain because he lives in Louisville too.
Sorry, so many similiarities in your short bio.The King Bee said:Sorry...I am not that King Bee! I'm a broadcast engineer, teacher and musicologist from Louisville.
The King Bee said:For Stax/Volt afficianados (like me): Bear in mind that all of the songs recorded at their main East McLemore St. studio in Memphis (the famous converted movie theater) were in rather murky mono until the labels signed the Atlantic-Atco distribution deal in early 1965.
With this agreement, Stax gained access to the brilliant, legendary Atlantic engineer Tom Dowd, who over the course of several visits to Memphis whipped Stax into shape with full stereo capabilities. Note on the Atlantic CD "The Best of Sam and Dave," everything ahead of "Hold On, I'm Comin'" is in mono...after the first Dowd visit, everything else beginning with "Hold On..." is in stereo.
There's a book ("Sweet Soul Music") that relates Dowd's first visit to Stax, working on the old Ampex recorders while a fascinated Steve Cropper looks on.
If you ever check out the Stax Museum in Memphis they have a funny video with Steve Cropper talking about the recording equipment at Stax. Basically all they had when the started was a couple of Ampex mic mixers with a 2-track and mono Skully tape decks. The monitor was the original speaker from the movie theater. And they used a weatherproof speaker from a drive-in theater for their homemade echo chamber because moths would eat the regular paper speaker!
And after Tom Dowd upgraded everything to stereo most of the recordings done in 65-66 were live to 2-track, though in very wide primitive stereo.
Stax finally upgraded to 4-Track in late '66-early '67 and Sam & Dave's "Soul Man" was one of the big hits cut on it. A year later when Stax was bought by Gulf+Western (who owned Paramount Pictures and Records) they had a huge upgrading of their studios to 8 track.
One of the original Stax control boards is owned by Conrad Uno of Egg Studios in Seattle. He recorded The Young Fresh Fellows, Mudhoney, The Posies and most famously the Presidents of the USA with it. From Soul to Grunge! So the board they have in the Stax studio is originally from Ardent Studios, but its from the same company and it also has a lot of history (Led Zeppelin, Big Star, The Staple Singers, Issac Hayes, ZZ Top, Booker T. & the MGs..)
http://staxmuseumnews.blogspot.com/2008/10/stax-museum-acquires-famed-mixing.html
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