Which brings me to something I've been wondering considering the 6 week run at #1 on the Hot 100 by both Fun. and now Gotye: What is the most successful rock song on the Hot 100? These have got to be up there.
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ROCK DEAD in 2012...??
- Thread starter Wildstyle K
- Start date
I don't think there's any argument that rock is in bad shape at the moment as far as CHR goes. As far as comparing it to the 70's. Well even if rock didn't crossover from AOR to the pop charts, at least AOR as a format was big. That's simply not true with today's rock formats. Alternative and Active Rock are way down, and many markets have no really current focused rock format anymore. Sure, there are a few tracks here & there that break the mold, but overall, today's pop audience (teens to 40s), really grew up on more rhythmic/dance/hip hop/pop & that's what they prefer.
And the few rock songs that are making a splash, such as Fun, Gotye, Train, One Republic, etc., tend to have electronic and pop elements as integral parts of their hits. Harder, more traditional rock tracks simply aren't charting at CHR.
And the few rock songs that are making a splash, such as Fun, Gotye, Train, One Republic, etc., tend to have electronic and pop elements as integral parts of their hits. Harder, more traditional rock tracks simply aren't charting at CHR.
Looking at the female teens chart on All Access, it looks like CHR is actually representing the tastes of their audience rather well. Sure, Train is #5 and may not be getting its full due, but the chart is a hodge podge of various genres, yet still tilts pop. I wouldn't even say its leaning rhythmic, it has elements of pop/rock; alternative rock, teen pop, so its all over the board. I think there has been a noted shift in both tastes in music and what CHR is playing within the past year.
Will it ever be perfect? Probably not. But then again, tastes are subjective.
Will it ever be perfect? Probably not. But then again, tastes are subjective.
justpassingthough said:
You're killing me here, man...
You originally posted that your average 16 and 17 year olds don't like pop/rock, and that Train's high I-Tunes sales must be due to adult downloads - you then posted that this teenage "aversion" to rock spells out trouble for the genre in the future
Clearly, that's not true - teenagers don't have an aversion to rock - corporate pop radio programmers do, in that they don't want their pop stations programmed the same way as their Hot ACs
BRH said:
That's because there was no such thing as Hot AC in the 70s, and "Rock" wasn't split between 4 different formats - the only choices for current music in the 70s were CHR or AOR, and that was it (as far as pop/rock went)
What was considered "rock" in the 70s would be comparable to what is today played on Hot AC, Alternative, Active Rock, and Triple A - if you add up the ratings of all those formats, they'd certainly match up to AOR ratings in the 70s
But how many markets have all of those formats? A lot of markets in the southeast, especially small and medium sized, just have an active rocker as far as new rock goes. In SC, that format isn't even that huge...atlantaboy said:
carolinaradio said:
That's why most CHRs in the Southeast tend to have no problem playing pop/rock - Look at the spin numbers for Train at WNKS/Charlotte (109x per week), WFBC/Greenville (108x per week), WAEZ/Johnson City TN (89x a week), WRVW/Nashville (85x per week), WKZL/Greensboro (83x per week), WYOY/Jackson MS (82x per week), WHQC/Charlotte (77x per week), WNFN/Nashville (77x per week), WDCG/Raleigh (72x per week), etc.
Since there are so few Alternative, AAA, and Hot ACs in the Southeast, rock on CHR isn't even an issue
It's a shame IMO. KZQ/Myrtle Beach sounds really good whenever I stream it. And 99x/ATL isn't all that bad, save for the grunge overkill.carolinaradio said:
Wow.
I'm not really sure what's going on here because I noticed that not much has changed since the last time I posted here. I *thought* that things were beginning to look up for alternative / rock the last time I posted here, but I look back and nothing's really changing at all! It seems to be the same type of soft alternative pop rockish "almost not alternative" sound that keeps popping up and somewhat making a dent in the chr world.
I'm even more shocked with how hip hop seems to be "hanging in there" and refusing to be pushed aside as much as everything else was pushed aside by hip hop throughout the mid 00's.
Still hoping that Coldplay picks up more. The only time I hear it on local top 40 is during the syndicated top 40 countdown shows. The Train record is nice. Gotye doesn't exactly sound alternative anymore. What's taking M83 so long to pick up? What happened to Daughtry? And where is P!NK? Still waiting for that 2010 or 2011 album Gwen Stefani was promising. Maybe Ke$ha should mysteriously reappear with an alternative pop album.
I'm not really sure what's going on here because I noticed that not much has changed since the last time I posted here. I *thought* that things were beginning to look up for alternative / rock the last time I posted here, but I look back and nothing's really changing at all! It seems to be the same type of soft alternative pop rockish "almost not alternative" sound that keeps popping up and somewhat making a dent in the chr world.
I'm even more shocked with how hip hop seems to be "hanging in there" and refusing to be pushed aside as much as everything else was pushed aside by hip hop throughout the mid 00's.
Still hoping that Coldplay picks up more. The only time I hear it on local top 40 is during the syndicated top 40 countdown shows. The Train record is nice. Gotye doesn't exactly sound alternative anymore. What's taking M83 so long to pick up? What happened to Daughtry? And where is P!NK? Still waiting for that 2010 or 2011 album Gwen Stefani was promising. Maybe Ke$ha should mysteriously reappear with an alternative pop album.
BTW, I'm actually shocked that Fun and Gotye have charted of Train. I love "Drive By" and think it's more mass-appeal than those two. It seems to fit with the rest of what CHR is playing more.
As far as Daughtry, why can't they have any kind of variety? I loved them at first, but if you aren't listening carefully, a lot of their songs sound identical. That trend continues with them. I can't put my finger on it, but all of their songs seem to run together. P!nk had 2 big hits last year.
As far as Daughtry, why can't they have any kind of variety? I loved them at first, but if you aren't listening carefully, a lot of their songs sound identical. That trend continues with them. I can't put my finger on it, but all of their songs seem to run together. P!nk had 2 big hits last year.
carolinaradio said:
I feel the same way about Katy Perry, Jessie J., and Carly Rae Jepsen - all the songs run together and sound the same
All it is IMO is a question of musical taste
I agree with both atlantaboy and carolinaradio. The Dr. Luke Katy/Jessie/Britney stuff all sounds the same, and a lot of the stuff from Daughtry and their contemporaries sounds the same. The difference? Pure pop is in right now, and grunge-lite is out across the board.
Rock has definitely hit its nadir at CHR, but I think it can regain some influence as the pure pop craze dies down. If Fun., Gotye, Foster The People and so forth can break through during such a rock-averse phase, it demonstrates that the pop audience is receptive to that style...they just need to hear more of it and wait for the tides to turn a bit at radio. The likes of Daughtry and Nickelback, however, will probably never be successful again at Top 40. That style has fallen out of favor and doesn't cultivate much passion amongst the young females whom CHRs court. Personally, I liked Daughtry and Nickelback at one point, but they failed to evolve and I find their new material hopelessly boring.
Rock has definitely hit its nadir at CHR, but I think it can regain some influence as the pure pop craze dies down. If Fun., Gotye, Foster The People and so forth can break through during such a rock-averse phase, it demonstrates that the pop audience is receptive to that style...they just need to hear more of it and wait for the tides to turn a bit at radio. The likes of Daughtry and Nickelback, however, will probably never be successful again at Top 40. That style has fallen out of favor and doesn't cultivate much passion amongst the young females whom CHRs court. Personally, I liked Daughtry and Nickelback at one point, but they failed to evolve and I find their new material hopelessly boring.
Could not agree with you more.TheMusicMan said:
Another thing... although artists like Nickelback and Daughtry have been displaced and deservedly so, I do think CHR can and should make room for HAC-leaning artists like Andy Grammer, Matt Nathanson and so forth. They put out relevant and catchy material, and females are passionate about them. Just because they have guitars or pianos doesn't make them passe. I actually think part of the reason they only do *somewhat* well versus being huge at HAC is because CHR doesn't really support them.
I miss hearing guitars on CHR. Rather than ignoring ALL Hot AC and rock-based artists, CHR needs to only ditch those who have let themselves become uninteresting. It's promising that Gavin DeGraw went Top 10 and Train went Top 15 with their latest releases, but there's even better HAC material out there.
As for pure rock, it was also just a few years ago that songs like "It's Not My Time," "Second Chance," "Addicted" and "Never Too Late" - all fantastic songs in my opinion - became sleeper Pop hits. A smattering of that at CHR would be great, but those sorts of artists need to meet radio halfway and bring A-game material that's on par with, but NOT identical to, their prior hits. Daughtry and Nickelback met their current fates because they released samey-sounding songs with boring melodies and uninteresting lyrics.
I miss hearing guitars on CHR. Rather than ignoring ALL Hot AC and rock-based artists, CHR needs to only ditch those who have let themselves become uninteresting. It's promising that Gavin DeGraw went Top 10 and Train went Top 15 with their latest releases, but there's even better HAC material out there.
As for pure rock, it was also just a few years ago that songs like "It's Not My Time," "Second Chance," "Addicted" and "Never Too Late" - all fantastic songs in my opinion - became sleeper Pop hits. A smattering of that at CHR would be great, but those sorts of artists need to meet radio halfway and bring A-game material that's on par with, but NOT identical to, their prior hits. Daughtry and Nickelback met their current fates because they released samey-sounding songs with boring melodies and uninteresting lyrics.
TheMusicMan said:
I wouldn't say "Lullaby" by Nickelback has a boring melody, and it defintely doesn't have "uninteresting lyrics" - but teens/early 20s pop listeners know their parents love Nickelback/Daughtry/Goo Goo Dolls etc., so they want to hear something different
I don't think there's any generation in the past 50 years that's had similar musical tastes to their parents' generation
Katy Perry, Karmin, Carly Rae Jepsen, Jessie J., etc. all sound just as identical as Nickelback songs - the difference is that their sound is relatively new, rather than having a sound that goes back 15 years
atlantaboy said:
A lot more songs than that sound the same these days. Some of Katy Perry's stuff sound similar to Kelly Clarkson, etc. It's funny how it all sounds relatively new when it pretty much has the same generic pop formula as many of those other straight up pop songs that have been released in time. I guess they don't sound like New Kids On The Block or Backstreet Boys, Nsync and Spice Girls, etc., so it does sound new and different. But flash back to today a few years from now and it will have that sound than many past pop songs have.
^Definitely agree with that
What I think is weird is that a lot of new pop does sound like stuff from the 90s - it's just that LaBouche (i. e. GaGa) and the Backstreet Boys (i. e. One Direction) weren't played to death as recurrents/gold like the Goo Goo Dolls/Matchbox 20/Nickelback/Lifehouse-type bands were, so the new pop sound seems "new," just cause the current teen generation doesn't know about the pop stuff from the 90s
What I think is weird is that a lot of new pop does sound like stuff from the 90s - it's just that LaBouche (i. e. GaGa) and the Backstreet Boys (i. e. One Direction) weren't played to death as recurrents/gold like the Goo Goo Dolls/Matchbox 20/Nickelback/Lifehouse-type bands were, so the new pop sound seems "new," just cause the current teen generation doesn't know about the pop stuff from the 90s
wxman76 said:atlantaboy said:
Keep in mind that internet radio will be a very huge factor to what's going on in the radio and records world by then and things wont be the same way as they are today. Who knows how music charts and trends will be done at that time. You may have "split trends", where a couple of genre sounds may equally trend amongst different groups of people within the same age groups, or maybe internet radio may go the same route as today's terrestrial radio and have one or two genres dominating at a time. Maybe there's even a possibility that trends may somewhat disappear all together and a bunch of people will listen to and love different things and top 40 will be hugely diverse. But then again, there's also the possibility that things may not change as much as we expect and around the late 10's through the early 30's there will be an increase in pop rock leading to harder alternative then leading to more pure rock on the charts. ...and then maybe people will want to rap on that, too.
....Or a new style of Jazz may unexpectedly come back out of the blue and dominate everything the same way hip hop did through the 00's and dance did through the 10's. Who knows. We'll have; The MTV top 30 Jazz countdown; Power 106 Where Jazz Lives!; Z100 Today's Jazz & All The Hits; B96 Hits & Jazz, Hot 97 is Jazz, R&B & Hip Hop. Don't say it can't happen.
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