jimbo said:
And Ingstad bought it back for $14M less than he sold it for.
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Rush Limbaugh and Fargo
- Thread starter NE Miss Radio
- Start date
And Ingstad bought it back for $14M less than he sold it for.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
And the fact that Ingstad made a profit of $14M means what, relative to radio programming or the significance of the tiny little Fargo market?
I mean, it's all well and good that the guy made a good business deal. I just don't see what that has to do with radio news/talk programming. Will we next be told that Ingstad also cooks a great bowl of chili? Or that he's a good guitar player?
I mean, it's all well and good that the guy made a good business deal. I just don't see what that has to do with radio news/talk programming. Will we next be told that Ingstad also cooks a great bowl of chili? Or that he's a good guitar player?
Radio_Realist said:And the fact that Ingstad made a profit of $14M means what, relative to radio programming or the significance of the tiny little Fargo market?
I mean, it's all well and good that the guy made a good business deal. I just don't see what that has to do with radio news/talk programming. Will we next be told that Ingstad also cooks a great bowl of chili? Or that he's a good guitar player?
Well, it was brought up. And Ingstad's purchase of CC's Fargo stations is basically the reason why this very thread exists.
Granted, Fargo may not mean a whole lot to a radio snob like you, but keep in mind, people living in small markets in what you Easterners call 'fly-over country' do listen to radio as well. And small market radio is more important than you may think. Where do you think many of today's big-name talkers got their start? In markets like Fargo, of course.
Since you've really added nothing to the thread besides ranting that Fargo is insignificant, you should be the last to talk about going off topic.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Granted, Fargo may not mean a whole lot to a radio snob like you,
As I said before, small-market radio as a whole is very important. But each individual piece is not. It is only their collective mass that makes small market radio (or small markets for any industry) significant.
The thing is, given the size of the Fargo market, the fact that Rush isn't there anymore doesn't really mean diddly-squat. And that is what this thread is about.
As I said before, small-market radio as a whole is very important. But each individual piece is not. It is only their collective mass that makes small market radio (or small markets for any industry) significant.
The thing is, given the size of the Fargo market, the fact that Rush isn't there anymore doesn't really mean diddly-squat. And that is what this thread is about.
Yes, it was $46 mil and change... but $46-14 = more than 14. $32.3 mil, in fact. Plus interest on the $46 mil over the years.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Where do you think many of today's big-name talkers got their start? In markets like Fargo, of course.
Maybe that was true back in the day, but now that the consultants have taken over and pretty much killed small-town radio, the only thing coming out of radio stations in markets like Fargo are techies who know how to turn on and maintain the syndication feed links.
Maybe that was true back in the day, but now that the consultants have taken over and pretty much killed small-town radio, the only thing coming out of radio stations in markets like Fargo are techies who know how to turn on and maintain the syndication feed links.
E
evnlee
Guest
Radio_Realist said:Where do you think many of today's big-name talkers got their start? In markets like Fargo, of course.
Maybe that was true back in the day, but now that the consultants have taken over and pretty much killed small-town radio, the only thing coming out of radio stations in markets like Fargo are techies who know how to turn on and maintain the syndication feed links.
brother, ain't that the truth!
Radio_Realist said:Where do you think many of today's big-name talkers got their start? In markets like Fargo, of course.
Maybe that was true back in the day, but now that the consultants have taken over and pretty much killed small-town radio, the only thing coming out of radio stations in markets like Fargo are techies who know how to turn on and maintain the syndication feed links.
You are correct.
OFTEN that's true...BUT...
One problem with grousing in generalities like that, about markets you're unfamiliar with?
YOU MIGHT BE WRONG.
With the exception of Sean Hannity, ONE station there is all-live-and-local-all-day.
And GROOMING NEW TALENT (what a concept), such as the faces/voices you'll see/hear @:
http://members.aol.com/cookeh/news.html
Scroll down to "Trend: 'Real People' Hosts."
NOT non-local-programming-off-a-satellite.
And NOT actresses from the movie "Fargo."
But SO local-sounding that the accents are, as locals would say, "pretty darn close..."
Good afternoon from Starbucks, 22nd and K NW, Washington, where WiFi is SO-blazing-fast, Email just jumps-off-the-screen.
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
Radio_Realist said:the consultants have taken over and pretty much killed small-town radio, the only thing coming out of radio stations in markets like Fargo are techies who know how to turn on and maintain the syndication feed links.
One problem with grousing in generalities like that, about markets you're unfamiliar with?
YOU MIGHT BE WRONG.
With the exception of Sean Hannity, ONE station there is all-live-and-local-all-day.
And GROOMING NEW TALENT (what a concept), such as the faces/voices you'll see/hear @:
http://members.aol.com/cookeh/news.html
Scroll down to "Trend: 'Real People' Hosts."
NOT non-local-programming-off-a-satellite.
And NOT actresses from the movie "Fargo."
But SO local-sounding that the accents are, as locals would say, "pretty darn close..."
Good afternoon from Starbucks, 22nd and K NW, Washington, where WiFi is SO-blazing-fast, Email just jumps-off-the-screen.
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
ONE station there is all-live-and-local-all-day.
One whole station. An entire station! Out of thousands of small-market stations in America, you can point to one whole station that actually has live people instead of syndication feeds.
Wow!!!!
The thing is that I am aware of more than a few small market stations that maintain local programming. They're easy to identify. There the few where the actual station owner makes the decisions, not some hired-gun consultant.
One whole station. An entire station! Out of thousands of small-market stations in America, you can point to one whole station that actually has live people instead of syndication feeds.
Wow!!!!
The thing is that I am aware of more than a few small market stations that maintain local programming. They're easy to identify. There the few where the actual station owner makes the decisions, not some hired-gun consultant.
YOU picked the shot...
Me again, the hired gun.
Whereas this thread is about Fargo, and I'm-the-gun-they-hired, I offered that particular example.
And I did so without saying "Gotcha!" Because SOME of us here really are more interested in having-the-conversation than just tossing anonymous zingers.
Were this thread about, for instance, Wilmington DE, I'd cite WDEL replacing Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity shows that defected to a competitor with local hosts. But there already is a thread about that here. Between the snipes, there's some thoughtful dialogue too.
My point being: The view Fargo from Monroeville, or Mount Lebanon ("Go Lebo!"), or Squirrel Hill might not be in-crisp-focus.
NO ARGUMENT with the generalities.
But the example you've chosen doesn't make your point.
And THIS hired gun is workin' dang-near non-stop coaching local talent.
Good evening from Pawtucket RI, birthplace of the Industrial Revolution,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
Me again, the hired gun.
Whereas this thread is about Fargo, and I'm-the-gun-they-hired, I offered that particular example.
And I did so without saying "Gotcha!" Because SOME of us here really are more interested in having-the-conversation than just tossing anonymous zingers.
Were this thread about, for instance, Wilmington DE, I'd cite WDEL replacing Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity shows that defected to a competitor with local hosts. But there already is a thread about that here. Between the snipes, there's some thoughtful dialogue too.
My point being: The view Fargo from Monroeville, or Mount Lebanon ("Go Lebo!"), or Squirrel Hill might not be in-crisp-focus.
NO ARGUMENT with the generalities.
But the example you've chosen doesn't make your point.
And THIS hired gun is workin' dang-near non-stop coaching local talent.
Good evening from Pawtucket RI, birthplace of the Industrial Revolution,
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Because SOME of us here really are more interested in having-the-conversation than just tossing anonymous zingers.
And some of us find "zingers" to be an integral part of conversation, the part that makes it interesting. Some of us don't insist that "conversation" can only exist if everyone agrees with everyone else. That's what makes most radio so mind-numbingly boring -- the insistence that everything must be vanilla and inoffensive. That's also why news/talk most often succeeds, because it is an alternative to pablum.
My point being: The view Fargo from Monroeville, or Mount Lebanon ("Go Lebo!"), or Squirrel Hill might not be in-crisp-focus.
I recognize your point. The thing is, any broadcaster on any station in Fargo, ND (or any other really small market) isn't reaching very many people, no matter what his percentage share of his market might be. Statistically, any time you have a very small sample to work with, the chances of getting non-typical results from any study increases.
This thread is about the fact that Rush Limbaugh was dropped in the a market that's not even in the top 200. That fact means nothing, because Fargo is such a very small market. It is statistically insignificant. The fact that Rush isn't on in Fargo anymore doesn't mean that he's "slipping". It's not the beginning of a trend. It doesn't mean that he's close to dropping into obscurity.
This is what the launch post of this thread says:
For awhile, there's been a reference on Rush's site about a Fargo station not being an affiliate anymore. I would have thought that affiliates come and go over time, anyone know what the big deal is about this one?
My posts add up to answering that last question thusly: "There is no 'big deal'. Rush wasn't dropped by an affiliate of any importance. He was only dropped by a station in Fargo, ND. Pretending that losing clearance in Fargo, ND is a big deal is Rush's idea of making a joke. It's an example of Rush being sarcastic. One could even accuse Rush of making the whole incident into nothing but a 'zinger'."
And some of us find "zingers" to be an integral part of conversation, the part that makes it interesting. Some of us don't insist that "conversation" can only exist if everyone agrees with everyone else. That's what makes most radio so mind-numbingly boring -- the insistence that everything must be vanilla and inoffensive. That's also why news/talk most often succeeds, because it is an alternative to pablum.
My point being: The view Fargo from Monroeville, or Mount Lebanon ("Go Lebo!"), or Squirrel Hill might not be in-crisp-focus.
I recognize your point. The thing is, any broadcaster on any station in Fargo, ND (or any other really small market) isn't reaching very many people, no matter what his percentage share of his market might be. Statistically, any time you have a very small sample to work with, the chances of getting non-typical results from any study increases.
This thread is about the fact that Rush Limbaugh was dropped in the a market that's not even in the top 200. That fact means nothing, because Fargo is such a very small market. It is statistically insignificant. The fact that Rush isn't on in Fargo anymore doesn't mean that he's "slipping". It's not the beginning of a trend. It doesn't mean that he's close to dropping into obscurity.
This is what the launch post of this thread says:
For awhile, there's been a reference on Rush's site about a Fargo station not being an affiliate anymore. I would have thought that affiliates come and go over time, anyone know what the big deal is about this one?
My posts add up to answering that last question thusly: "There is no 'big deal'. Rush wasn't dropped by an affiliate of any importance. He was only dropped by a station in Fargo, ND. Pretending that losing clearance in Fargo, ND is a big deal is Rush's idea of making a joke. It's an example of Rush being sarcastic. One could even accuse Rush of making the whole incident into nothing but a 'zinger'."
OK, never mind.
But merely-my-saying-THAT pushes this back to the top.
Have I mentioned www.HollandCooke.com?
<< That fact means nothing, because Fargo is such a very small market. It is statistically insignificant >>
Mark your calendar.
Check back here on the evening of July 21, 6 months from now.
See if what-this-thread-is-about does NOT become a trend.
Mark your calendar.
Tell me I'm wrong on 7/21.
Mark it.
But merely-my-saying-THAT pushes this back to the top.
Have I mentioned www.HollandCooke.com?
<< That fact means nothing, because Fargo is such a very small market. It is statistically insignificant >>
Mark your calendar.
Check back here on the evening of July 21, 6 months from now.
See if what-this-thread-is-about does NOT become a trend.
Mark your calendar.
Tell me I'm wrong on 7/21.
Mark it.
Limbaugh's people seem to think Fargo is important.
Important enough to post a link to this via the top of his homepage:
Attention Fargo Listeners:
Joining the EIB Network is no small feat and while we select the next Fargo member of the EIB family, you're invited to use a special Fargo Internet stream with our compliments during the live broadcast from 11AM-2PM CT.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/weekend_sites/attention_fargo_listeners.guest.html
And while stations in Fargo don't reach the same numbers of people that a station in Pittsburgh does, it's still important. People do rely on local radio there, perhaps even more so than in larger media-saturated markets. This casual dismissal of Fargo as irrelevant is pretty shallow and short-sighted. Some big names in the industry have worked in Fargo, including the likes of Bill Lee and Chuck Knapp. And don't forget Ed Schultz, of course. Schultz has gotten offers to relocate his syndicate show to bigger, more media-saturated markets (Al Franken recently offered him his Minneapolis production facilities, and he considered Albuquerque and Denver), but prefers to live in Detroit Lakes, MN and work in Fargo.
Important enough to post a link to this via the top of his homepage:
Attention Fargo Listeners:
Joining the EIB Network is no small feat and while we select the next Fargo member of the EIB family, you're invited to use a special Fargo Internet stream with our compliments during the live broadcast from 11AM-2PM CT.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/weekend_sites/attention_fargo_listeners.guest.html
And while stations in Fargo don't reach the same numbers of people that a station in Pittsburgh does, it's still important. People do rely on local radio there, perhaps even more so than in larger media-saturated markets. This casual dismissal of Fargo as irrelevant is pretty shallow and short-sighted. Some big names in the industry have worked in Fargo, including the likes of Bill Lee and Chuck Knapp. And don't forget Ed Schultz, of course. Schultz has gotten offers to relocate his syndicate show to bigger, more media-saturated markets (Al Franken recently offered him his Minneapolis production facilities, and he considered Albuquerque and Denver), but prefers to live in Detroit Lakes, MN and work in Fargo.
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
Limbaugh's people seem to think Fargo is important.
So, you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it, either. It strikes me that Limbaugh's people see losing Fargo as something to make fun of. It's a joke, but apparently you just don't get it.
it's still important.
One can make the argument that all markets are important. The thing is, importance isn't a no/no-go thing. It's something measured in incremental degrees. Fargo is important. Larger markets are more important. Smaller markets are less important. It's a question of where do you draw the line? I draw the line at 200. You clearly draw the line much lower. That's a pure judgement call.
Schultz has gotten offers to relocate his syndicate show to bigger, more media-saturated markets (Al Franken recently offered him his Minneapolis production facilities, and he considered Albuquerque and Denver), but prefers to live in Detroit Lakes, MN and work in Fargo.
So? The beauty of being a talk show host (or a novelist, or a songwriter, or any of a number of other jobs) is that you can choose to live and work in some out-of-the-way little backwater if you want to. If someone chooses to live and/or work in an insignificant, sleepy little hamlet that's well off the beaten path, more power to them. That doesn't prove that the insignificant, sleepy little hamlet that's well off the beaten path is not an insignificant, sleepy little hamlet that's well off the beaten path.
See if what-this-thread-is-about does NOT become a trend.
We shall see what we shall see. But if this turns out to be an example of a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy, one would expect you to acknowledge it as such. If Limbaugh loses more affiliates after this event, that doesn't automatically prove that he lost affiliates because of this event.
So, you don't recognize sarcasm when you see it, either. It strikes me that Limbaugh's people see losing Fargo as something to make fun of. It's a joke, but apparently you just don't get it.
it's still important.
One can make the argument that all markets are important. The thing is, importance isn't a no/no-go thing. It's something measured in incremental degrees. Fargo is important. Larger markets are more important. Smaller markets are less important. It's a question of where do you draw the line? I draw the line at 200. You clearly draw the line much lower. That's a pure judgement call.
Schultz has gotten offers to relocate his syndicate show to bigger, more media-saturated markets (Al Franken recently offered him his Minneapolis production facilities, and he considered Albuquerque and Denver), but prefers to live in Detroit Lakes, MN and work in Fargo.
So? The beauty of being a talk show host (or a novelist, or a songwriter, or any of a number of other jobs) is that you can choose to live and work in some out-of-the-way little backwater if you want to. If someone chooses to live and/or work in an insignificant, sleepy little hamlet that's well off the beaten path, more power to them. That doesn't prove that the insignificant, sleepy little hamlet that's well off the beaten path is not an insignificant, sleepy little hamlet that's well off the beaten path.
See if what-this-thread-is-about does NOT become a trend.
We shall see what we shall see. But if this turns out to be an example of a post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy, one would expect you to acknowledge it as such. If Limbaugh loses more affiliates after this event, that doesn't automatically prove that he lost affiliates because of this event.
RE "where do you draw the line?" NOT a judgment call.
Actually, mathematically, the line is drawn between markets #1 and 2.
A New York clear is equal to the-entire-rest-of-the-country.
Unless you have Noo Yawk (and maybe even if you do) your inventory gets aggregated with other independent shows' tonnage in transcactions by specialist rep firms.
This is what makes WOR Radio Network's business model so opportune. Rather than launching programming and trying-like-crazy-for the New York clear, they STARTED OUT WITH the New York clear.
Good afternoon from Tascafe, at Tasca Ford, Cranston RI ("You WILL be satisfied!"); where my lube-and-oil pit stop just turned into a brake job...so they bought me lunch in their swank chowline. Try the snail salad. The brake job is NOT a scam...just part of the overhead of living on an island 12-miles-out-in-the-ocean, very tough on cars. But balmier than Fargo...
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
www.ListenToBlockIsland.com
Actually, mathematically, the line is drawn between markets #1 and 2.
A New York clear is equal to the-entire-rest-of-the-country.
Unless you have Noo Yawk (and maybe even if you do) your inventory gets aggregated with other independent shows' tonnage in transcactions by specialist rep firms.
This is what makes WOR Radio Network's business model so opportune. Rather than launching programming and trying-like-crazy-for the New York clear, they STARTED OUT WITH the New York clear.
Good afternoon from Tascafe, at Tasca Ford, Cranston RI ("You WILL be satisfied!"); where my lube-and-oil pit stop just turned into a brake job...so they bought me lunch in their swank chowline. Try the snail salad. The brake job is NOT a scam...just part of the overhead of living on an island 12-miles-out-in-the-ocean, very tough on cars. But balmier than Fargo...
HC
www.HollandCooke.com
www.ListenToBlockIsland.com
R
Radio_Realist
Guest
A New York clear is equal to the-entire-rest-of-the-country.
So?
So?
And THAT'S...the last word.
;D
;D
T
The Beave
Guest
Herschel Sills said:Radio_Realist said:Where do you think many of today's big-name talkers got their start? In markets like Fargo, of course.
Maybe that was true back in the day, but now that the consultants have taken over and pretty much killed small-town radio, the only thing coming out of radio stations in markets like Fargo are techies who know how to turn on and maintain the syndication feed links.
You are correct.
I take issue with that...
I know I have exhumed some road kill here but it's very clear Rush does have a new home with Scott Hennen in Fargo at WZFG-AM 1100. It's a completed CP with a 50kw nuke for a signal. Scheduled to debut July 1st, 2008.
Fargo has been the starting place for well known former KFYI-AM (Phoenix) Producer/Technical Director Brian Spieker, Scott Hennen who honed his PD/OM/Talk chops in a much smaller station up the highway in Grand Forks, ND.
The big thing there is... it's a rural area of the country where Information, Talk, Politics, and News reign supreme.
Why would anyone give up nature, and a very low cost of living when any show could originate in a smaller community not so far from home with a little investment in ISDN, or even an up-link such as Ed Schultz has done.
Many Fargo personalities have gone to WCCO-AM (Minneapolis) such as Dave Lee and Sandy Butweiler both who have many years invested at KFGO-AM in Fargo.
I'm almost willing to bet (if I were a betting man) that Scott Hennen will probably go national in the next 3 years.
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