Salem stations dropping Dave Ramsey.

[ToddStach]

I see I smoked out another former Cleveland Fish personality.

I can't say what other clusters do, but I know that Salem Cleveland promote the Fish quite a bit. I'm sure that you saw more than your share of RTA busses with Fish advertising when you worked on Summit Park Drive.

Yes, I was smoked out. Although, it took me awhile to get used to radio-info's new format.

I would assume (since I wasn't in the promotions department) that The Fish has a very small shoe-string budget for advertising in comparison to other FM's in the market. The Fish has to advertise to survive. They're doing everything possible (it seems) to grow their audience and impact lives. Christian music radio is a challenging venture. Just look at the stock prices in the last year:

http://seekingalpha.com/by/symbol/salm

My mom was very upset when southern gospel was removed. Plus, Moody started to become more contemporary at the same time. I'm sure a lot of people miss the southern gospel format in NE Ohio. So, I understand your frustration.

But, I gotta tell you that all of Ohio needed to jump into CCM - the message hasn't changed...just the method. I grew up in Canton and had nothing to listen to. Since the early 90's good CCM stations have popped up in Cleveland, Toledo , Cincy, Zanesville, Columbus, Mid Ohio, Dayton...Many more moms, dads and kids are using these stations as the soundtracks of their lives - as they make memories and struggle - and to me that's very powerful...and worth the trade off that took southern gospel off the air in NE Ohio.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Compared to a lot of other stations, WFHM has a pretty large TV advertising run. I know I see the Fish spots more frequently than TV spots for just about any other local radio station!

It's quite possible that there is a trade-out involved with the TV stations. But then again, Salem's also been running spots for WHK/1420 on a number of stations...

-OMW

 

[ToddStach]

Compared to a lot of other stations, WFHM has a pretty large TV advertising run. I know I see the Fish spots more frequently than TV spots for just about any other local radio station!

Maybe I should have said that I *think* that the Fish's overall advertising budget is probably much less than most of the other FM's in town. They seem to do more TV than anything else (billboards, buses, etc.). The Fish seems to place their TV ads very strategically and in heavy spurts.

It could be possible that the other stations tie up most of their money in outdoor and large on-air promotions. Many of the other stations also have weather deals with tv meteorologists which gives them added exposure. TV is very expensive to buy especially when it's a part of a budget where other mediums are cheaper. Really WDOK is the only other radio station that has any kind of TV frequency.

 

[74WIXYGrad]

"My mom was very upset when southern gospel was removed. Plus, Moody started to become more contemporary at the same time. I'm sure a lot of people miss the southern gospel format in NE Ohio. So, I understand your frustration.

But, I gotta tell you that all of Ohio needed to jump into CCM - the message hasn't changed...just the method. I grew up in Canton and had nothing to listen to. Since the early 90's good CCM stations have popped up in Cleveland, Toledo , Cincy, Zanesville, Columbus, Mid Ohio, Dayton...Many more moms, dads and kids are using these stations as the soundtracks of their lives - as they make memories and struggle - and to me that's very powerful...and worth the trade off that took southern gospel off the air in NE Ohio."



I've always liked Comtemporary music. I was born and raised in Northeast Ohio. However, I married into a family of southerners. My Father-in-Law is an ordained Southern Baptist deacon from W.Va. Need I say more? Think mind set in stone. I've had to sit through more than one sermon where the preacher said "gospel rock is of the devil" Does that make these people bad? No. They just are ministered to in different ways. And in those cases we have to "agree to disagree".

Like I posted before, I do listen to WCRF. I like most of the music and I like to be preached to part of the time. I listened to you at times, Todd. I also listened to Elizabeth(both on WCRF, and WFHM). I think you are both tremendous talents, and I appreciate the fact that we could have the civil exchange that we've had the past couple of days.

Have a good one.

 

[radioelizabeth]

Re: props

I listened to you at times, Todd. I also listened to Elizabeth(both on WCRF, and WFHM). I think you are both tremendous talents, and I appreciate the fact that we could have the civil exchange that we've had the past couple of days.

Well...(off thread topic) this is where I step in and remind anyone who cares....

Todd gave me my start in radio. Without that opportunity, I'd probably still be searching somewhere for someplace to spend my time.


thanks for the compliments.


e

 

[smashedcd]

ok guys youre gonna make me cry ...



smashedcd

currently listning to radio margaritaville

 

[dtime]

i'd like to give my two cents on this topic (its in the budget ;D).

i'll admit up front i don't know a whole lot about the issue of paying for clearances, but i think its a mistake that 'the dave ramsey show' won't be paying them for the salem stations, unless the money was so substantial it was to result in the loss of the program altogether, which i doubt was the case.

in the short run, it may look like a good move. dave has even said on air the show is exploding, and i read somewhere else in two markets where the show has already moved to non-salem stations (dallas and kansas city), they have more listeners than the 21 salem stations combined.

i'm assuming here salem was the only christian-format conglomerate that was carrying the show, but in losing the christian listenership on these stations, what would stop cumulus, or whoever else carrying the show, to say to the show, 'hey dave, we don't like you quoting scriptures on your show, please stop', if the majority of the new listenership objects. what choice would the show have? they're no longer talking about merely 21 stations.

i need some enlightment here. let me know especially if i'm off base, or showing ignorance of the situation.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

I don't think the "religious underpinnings" of the Ramsey show are that off-putting to secular outlets, particularly in the Bible Belt - aka the southeast, which has always been Ramsey's power base.

Add to that the fact that he's moved to conservative talk stations where he has moved (WGST, etc.), and it's not like he's being dropped onto liberal talkers. The philosophy is still mostly compatible, and it's not like Dave's show is a preach-a-thon.

As far as the money issues go...Ramsey was right here, IMHO. The show has done very well for some of Salem's outlets, including teaching/talk WHKW/1220 here. He packed it in at a recent public appearance, and his show was always pretty much fully sold (spot wise).

Salem, as a company, decided it needed to sell block time instead of spot time. That's about what happened.

Already, his slot here is occupied three days a week by a local religious-based legal advice show. WHKW plays Janet Parshall when the slot is not sold...as it's free to them, and is basically a filler sitting on the shelf.

 

[74WIXYGrad]

I will add my final 2 cents to this. After giving this much thought, I do feel that Dave does owe Salem a debt of gratitude, as they got him exposed in some markets which eventually took to his teachings. The religious flavor of his show is part of Dave's makeup, just as it is part of someone like Zig Ziglar, who credits his success, both Christian and secular, to not compromising his faith.

If Dave is missed by enough folks in the Cleveland market, he will be back on some other station, who will recognize the potential buying power of commercial time. If not, then it's just not meant to be.

Thanks goes to OMW, for coming over to this board and helping clean up some of my mess. And thanks to the rest of this board for bearing with me as I took time to vent.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

If Dave is missed by enough folks in the Cleveland market, he will be back on some other station, who will recognize the potential buying power of commercial time. If not, then it's just not meant to be.

That's Dave's problem here. He may have won the battle, but lost the war.

His program did very well for WHKW, as I said. But Salem looked at the lay of the land, and decided they'd make more money selling the entire hour...as opposed to even if they sold out Ramsey's local avails, which I think they pretty much did while he was on.

So, he's right about not wanting to pay for a slot when his show was certainly strong enough to stand on its own as a bartered show.

But...his chance of getting a new decent Cleveland market affiliate is rather small. And one of his biggest problems is that his former station's owner has three of the market's better AM signals!

Win the battle, lose the war.

He has, in this entire thing, been grateful to Salem for the exposure his show got on its stations.

 

[OhioMediaWatch]

Oh, and as noted on OMW, Salem is now running its own "Janet Parshall's America" in the old Dave Ramsey slot.

That is...when they don't sell the time. A brokered local Christian-themed legal advice show has already slipped into a two day a week clearance at 3 PM.

 

[smashedcd]

quote:

and decided they'd make more money selling the entire hour


ahh..the ole dollar a holler format ;D

 

[dtime]

a while ago i told a christian friend about dave ramsey and he asked me what station he was on. when i told him whkw, that was endorsement enough for him. now since the recent move, i don't know what to say. i've decided not to go to dave's site to listen to the webcast version of the show.

i guess in a way i saw it coming. its been said here dave is a christian, but his show is not, but coming from a christian perspective, you could see compromise all over the place. from the bumper music (which admittedly in my younger years i used to enjoy), to his endorsement/alignment with suspected apostates such as t.d. jakes, rick warren, and joyce meyer (who used to have a show on the station but also, has since been dropped).

there is a show hosted by pastor ernie sanders called 'what's right what's left' from 9pm-mid weeknights on whkw, on which he frequently takes jakes, warren, and meyer to task for their beliefs/doctrines that center around the prosperity movement. 'wrwl' is the longest-running christian talk show in the nation.

 

[smashedcd]

a while ago i told a christian friend about dave ramsey and he asked me what station he was on. when i told him whkw, that was endorsement enough for him. now since the recent move, i don't know what to say. i've decided not to go to dave's site to listen to the webcast version of the show.

i guess in a way i saw it coming. its been said here dave is a christian, but his show is not, but coming from a christian perspective, you could see compromise all over the place. from the bumper music (which admittedly in my younger years i used to enjoy), to his endorsement/alignment with suspected apostates such as t.d. jakes, rick warren, and joyce meyer (who used to have a show on the station but also, has since been dropped).

there is a show hosted by pastor ernie sanders called 'what's right what's left' from 9pm-mid weeknights on whkw, on which he frequently takes jakes, warren, and meyer to task for their beliefs/doctrines that center around the prosperity movement. 'wrwl' is the longest-running christian talk show in the nation.

i have never heard dave ramsey openly suppport any WOF teaching? as for the not christian show?? he talks about God all the time. how is he not a christian? and whats wrong with the music? do you watch tv? go to movies? shop at wal mart? target? buy cds at record stores? please dont start the secular is satanic bit here..this dog will start barking :

 

[dtime]

dave was recently asked by t.d. jakes to speak at megafest in atlanta, georgia. joyce meyer preached a sermon on finances in which she endorsed dave, for which dave returned the favor on his show. and dave has a link to rick warren's 'purpose driven life' on his website.

the issue is not about the music, or whether or not dave is a Christian, but the expectation of salem and its audience for the show.

yes, i do watch tv, go to movies, shop at wal-mart, etc., but i don't do these things with the primary purpose of finding out how to deepen my relationship with Jesus Christ. when dealing with people who call themselves Christians, and they are teachers, pastors, etc., there is a different expectation, generally higher expectation, whether explicit or implicit, fair or unfair.

i don't know how long dave's show was on salem, but they didn't always require the show to pay for clearances. why are they now, when they didn't before? the argument that all shows are required to pay is a valid one. i see it, in the spiritual realm, as protection money. i'm sure many in dave's secular audience merely want to get out of debt, not be told how to live a Godly life.

i've heard the show on one occasion where the caller asked if they should pay off the debts of a girlfriend he was about to move in with, to which dave replied, you shouldn't be moving in with her at all. it seems lately dave has had to bring more and more callers up short on issues considered 'unchristian' or 'unbiblical', feeling it has a direct tie-in to their financial problems. imo, they could call suzie orman and get better advice, from their perspective.

 

[smashedcd]

well i didnt know about the jakes/myer thing. i did see the endorsement for the pdl which i am dissapointed in. however i am not listning to him for religous leadership if i was and he endorersed myers or jakes i would change the dial in an instant!! but i am getting out of debt. and as simple as his plan is i was to stupid to come up with it on my own. i have paid off 2 cards and i am working on a third. i will be debt free before i am 40! thanks to dave..hey GOD can use a burning bush..how come he coundnt use a doctrinally unsound radio guy? and i thought you were saying he wasnt a christian because of the music..the WOF doctrine is for another board. but i also belive it isnt christian. and before i get flamed i said the DOCTRINE not the people...also referred to as the jesus died spiritually doctrine. listen to afr because they dont let those people have airtime!

 

[74WIXYGrad]

I can see in the two responses above this, that maybe it's a good thing that Dave is going to more of a secular audience. I keep forgetting that when you mention Christian programming, you get into heinz 57 varieties. Having been a Christian now for 27 years, the message still hits home "you can't please everyone."

I think that Dave will reach more people on mainstream talk stations with his financial responsibility message. And I think if he gets the chance to present the gospel, he will utilize it. I am positive that if individual stations are uncomfortable with it they will utilize their "dump" buttons.

 

[neutralobserver]

Alright........what's the supposed problem with Rick Warren?




(Am I about to regret this?)

 

[smashedcd]

Alright........what's the supposed problem with Rick Warren?




(Am I about to regret this?)

i will not go into details..research for yourself...

 

[radioelizabeth]

i've heard the show on one occasion where the caller asked if they should pay off the debts of a girlfriend he was about to move in with, to which dave replied, you shouldn't be moving in with her at all. it seems lately dave has had to bring more and more callers up short on issues considered 'unchristian' or 'unbiblical', feeling it has a direct tie-in to their financial problems. imo, they could call suzie orman and get better advice, from their perspective.

That advice is actually pretty culturally current, considering when it comes to finances, living together or moving in with someone who has these debts would not be the best advice a planner would give anyone.

Just because the bible had it right first, doesn't mean it is only a "biblical" value.

I'm sure some will get what I mean by that...

e