SAVE WLW Night time Signal Petition

[KeithE4]

In WLW's case, there's something to be said for reaching those fringe Reds fans, that they still rely on to stuff a bus full and drive 100 miles to the game. I'm wondering how many new stations would actually start or move, there would still need to be directional signals installed to protect Cincinnati (Albany, whoever) and that's not easy to do anymore.

The Reds are on a network of stations that cover all or parts of 8 states. Outside of metro Cincy, they don't need WLW. Fans in other areas can buy MLB Gameday Audio for $20.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/cin/downloads/y2014/RadioAffiliateMap_Apr-2014_7x6-01.pdf

 

[TheBigA]

Fans in other areas can buy MLB Gameday Audio for $20.

So what you're saying is people really don't need radio. That's certainly a point of view to have.

Try to understand why the companies that own this stations have a different opinion. And why the teams have chosen stations like WLW rather than smaller, more localized stations that only serve the Metro. These teams signed contracts with these radio stations, based on certain signal and coverage expectations. Now, some bureaucrat in DC wants to change that. So the licensees are upset. Do you blame them? Someone's trying to move their cheese.

But sure, the public can spent $20 to listen to the Reds. Heck they can pay $50 for a ticket on Stub Hub and actually sit in the stadium. But maybe they want to listen to it on free OTA radio while driving in their car. What's wrong with that?

 

[K6JHU]

Or maybe just get the game right on the dash via Sirius/XM.

 

[TheBigA]

Or maybe just get the game right on the dash via Sirius/XM.

For free? No. Pay $15 a month. As I said, lots of alternatives. That's not really what this thread is about.

Some politician in DC is trying to revive AM radio, and this is his solution. And the result is that people are bringing up internet and satellite. How do either of those things revive AM?

 

[KeithE4]

Or maybe just get the game right on the dash via Sirius/XM.

$15 a month vs $20 for the entire season, that's why.

 

[KeithE4]

So what you're saying is people really don't need radio. That's certainly a point of view to have.

Outside of the teams' territories, radio is not necessary. This is by design by MLB. Want an out-of-town game? Pay $20 and you get the entire season, and all teams.

Try to understand why the companies that own this stations have a different opinion. And why the teams have chosen stations like WLW rather than smaller, more localized stations that only serve the Metro. These teams signed contracts with these radio stations, based on certain signal and coverage expectations. Now, some bureaucrat in DC wants to change that. So the licensees are upset. Do you blame them? Someone's trying to move their cheese.

These teams sign contracts with the station that gives them the biggest bucks in their home market. Obviously, that's been WLW for decades in Cincinnati. Then they affiliate with local stations within a certain distance of the ballpark, where their fans live. But there is no need for the Reds to be heard anywhere else on radio -- the rest of the country belongs to the other teams. Sure, I could hear them on WLW when I lived in Chicago, but I didn't make a dime for them. When I lived in Bloomington IN decades ago, my local station aired Reds games (still do, in fact). They didn't want me listening to WLW (which put a clear signal into town, day and night). They wanted me listening to them. WLW was unfair competition.

But sure, the public can spent $20 to listen to the Reds. Heck they can pay $50 for a ticket on Stub Hub and actually sit in the stadium. But maybe they want to listen to it on free OTA radio while driving in their car. What's wrong with that?

Nothing, as long as the listener is within the Reds' market. If you're outside the market, MLB expects (read: requires) you to pay. And the fee is miniscule by today's standards. Only the NBA, NHL, and some colleges (free) are cheaper.

BTW, why does any station need to be heard clearly outside of a 50 mile radius of their home city? I can see a few exceptions, such as NY, LA, or Chicago (75 miles, maybe), and maybe some rural stations where it would be expensive to set up a network of FM translators (say, KRVN Lexington NE or KTNN on the Navajo Nation), but not many. I thought specific markets were king, and it's relatively cheap to set up a streaming server for the few hundred listeners out of market that don't make money but don't lose any either.

 

[TheBigA]

Outside of the teams' territories, radio is not necessary. This is by design by MLB.

And yet the majority of the MLB teams sign deals with the most powerful AMs in the market. Quite often, that station isn't even an all-sports station. Why do they get the big bucks from WLW? Because the most powerful station typically can make more money than a 5 or 10KW station in the same market, regardless of format. So now the FCC thinks it's going to help revive AM by restricting successful AM stations so their listeners are forced to use the internet or satellite. Doesn't that seem like crazy thinking? I'm just asking. Seems like they want to kill the golden goose.

 

[semoochie]

And yet the majority of the MLB teams sign deals with the most powerful AMs in the market. Quite often, that station isn't even an all-sports station. Why do they get the big bucks from WLW? Because the most powerful station typically can make more money than a 5 or 10KW station in the same market, regardless of format. So now the FCC thinks it's going to help revive AM by restricting successful AM stations so their listeners are forced to use the internet or satellite. Doesn't that seem like crazy thinking? I'm just asking. Seems like they want to kill the golden goose.

It seems to me that it'll still be the most powerful. It just won't be protected hundreds or thousands of miles away.

 

[Arbitorn]

If the government is trying to improve the AM stations, it should remember: It all comes down to content. Adding more noise to the dial is like fixing the engine by putting sand in the crankcase. If AMs want more listeners, put something worth listening to on the air.

 

[CTListener]

If the government is trying to improve the AM stations, it should remember: It all comes down to content. Adding more noise to the dial is like fixing the engine by putting sand in the crankcase. If AMs want more listeners, put something worth listening to on the air.

I've gone back and forth with BigA on this several times, with the same result. I'm with you: Right-wing talk, ethnic programming and Christian preaching aren't going to attract appreciably more listeners in demos advertisers care about on a cluttered AM band, a less-cluttered AM band, or an FM band crammed with full-power stations and flea-power repeaters of struggling AMs that don't really want to be AMs anymore. But this argument seems to get me nowhere; it's always "Programming is irrelevant; clean up the band first then worry about what to put on the air." Well, at some point, the AM broadcasters -- whether they're on their assigned range of frequencies or invading another -- are going to have to come up with competitive programming, aren't they? All I want to know is what that programming might be.

 

[TheBigA]

If the government is trying to improve the AM stations, it should remember: It all comes down to content.

The government is not in the content business. And for good reason. We don't want our government telling us what we should listen to. But obviously there's a problem with AM that isn't content-related. Anyone who listens can tell you: The audio quality is crap compared to all of the other options. That wasn't a problem 50 years ago when you didn't have digital options, but it is now. To be competitive, you need more than good content.

But this argument seems to get me nowhere; it's always "Programming is irrelevant; clean up the band first then worry about what to put on the air." Well, at some point, the AM broadcasters -- whether they're on their assigned range of frequencies or invading another -- are going to have to come up with competitive programming, aren't they? All I want to know is what that programming might be.

Here's the situation: When AM stations didn't have competition, they were fine. When FM came along and offered the same content, listeners went to FM. That's why there are so few AM stations programming music. When people have a choice between great content on AM and the same great content on FM, they choose FM. So it's obviously more than just having great content. We have a situation now in some places where AM all-news stations like KYW are delivering great exclusive content, but the audience is aging and shrinking. So the content isn't getting bad, the audience is simply going away. How do you solve a problem like that when the content is not the problem?

AM radio isn't programming right wing talk, ethnic programming and Christian preaching because they want to. They're doing it as a last resort. It's the only way to make money with signals that listeners deserted when the programming was good. Clearly there are other factors besides content that guide listeners today.

The point of this thread is that owners of heritage clear channel stations, built on quality live local programming like WLW, are concerned that they will lose listeners when they lose skywave protection. That's what we're talking about.

 

[klutch00]

If someone sings one station's petition, does that mean it applies to all?

 

[microbob]

Here's an interesting opinion on this from former WLW programmer Darryl Parks.

https://darrylparks.com/2016/03/02/am-revitalization-destroying-am-radio/

 

[TheBigA]

Interesting that the former WLW PD can't attack his own station. Because the fact is that WLW does a lot of original local programming. Instead picks on WGY in a much smaller market. WGY is a heritage station in a medium market. They could do more local programming if they were in a Top 25. But they're not. So OK, take away the skywave from medium market heritage stations like WGY. But why does the FCC have to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

 

[MarioMania]

How about for Daytimers Only

Will they beable to stay on at night, If this passes?

 

[FreddyE1977]

They bought stations that were licensed to do a certain thing, which included skywave protction. Now the government is changing the deal.

Imagine the government lowering your Social Security payment after they promised you something else.

The government has every right to do BOTH.
Previous Supreme Court rulings have confirmed it.

Despite what most people think, their Social Security check is NOT guaranteed!
And neither is skywave protection.

 

[TheBigA]

The government has every right to do BOTH.
Previous Supreme Court rulings have confirmed it

Sure. Better than that, past FCC rulings have proven the FCC and Congress have the right to destroy the AM band if they wish. And their decisions over the last 30 years show that.

What this petition is about is preventing the government from further bureaucratic stupidity. Whatever happened to "less government?" Isn't that what the people want?

 

[KeithE4]

What this petition is about is preventing the government from further bureaucratic stupidity. Whatever happened to "less government?" Isn't that what the people want?

It may be what the people want, but it's not what the Federal Government and its corporate donors/lobbyists want. What we want hasn't mattered since at least the LBJ administration.

 

[TheBigA]

It may be what the people want, but it's not what the Federal Government and its corporate donors/lobbyists want.

Who are the lobbyists who want to cut skywave protection? I'm not aware of any.

 

[ContinuousWave]

They bought stations that were licensed to do a certain thing, which included skywave protction. Now the government is changing the deal.

Imagine the government lowering your Social Security payment after they promised you something else.

Skywave was needed in the early days of radio....but not now......Its outdated........for MW AM that is......They stay protected in their primary coverage area...thats all they need now...want to listen to them farther? Listen to their stream...I have WLS FM on its stream right now.....so whats the problem???