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Saving AM Radio

There is NO SAVING AM RADIO. Period. End of story.

Oh, Congress can mandate AM in cars. However, you can't force people to listen to AM. After the last few AM devotees die off, who the Hell is going to be around that cares enough to listen? A few DX'ers? Without listeners, it's dead. Truthfully, the main reason 90% of AMs still broadcast is to feed an FM translator. Other than a certain nameless owner from Western New York State and a loudmouth conservative billionaire with more money than brain cells, no one is running around proclaiming AM as a veritable cash-generating venture in 2024 and beyond. No broker I know has their phone ringing off the hook with buyers lining up to acquire AMs. As it should be.

briancraig said:
CBS did a story the other day on WWNC AM in Asheville, NC. Story said that after Hurricane Helene, more than a million people had no power and spotty cell service, but what they did have was the radio which was the only connection to the outside world.

For days, WWNC was a lifeline, “serving as a proxy dispatch service to help coordinate wellness checks and connect the stranded with nearby resources.”
Click to expand...
And there is absolutely no way for anyone to quantify how many people actually listened to WWNC after the storm, or were even aware of the station unless they had been listeners in the past. Plenty of people born in the last 40 years have never even tuned in to an AM station, so they almost certainly didn't tune in this time. It's great that the resource was there, but even if someone tuned in for information immediately after the storm, chances are 99% of them won't tune in EVER again.

If Congress ever offers tax breaks for turning in AM licenses, there's going to be a crap ton turned in immediately, and the numbers will astound even seasoned industry veterans. Maybe the band would be opened up so much that the remaining stations could get some significant power increases that may actually help them survive a few more years, and would be more useful than legislation the average person isn't aware of and couldn't care less about.

By the way, this argument about saving AM Radio is going to be revisited in about 20 years, except it will be titled "Saving RADIO".
 
BruceB said:
It's just silly to say AM is going to be gone in two years. Tell that to the listeners of WBBM or KCBS or WABC or WLW. I could go on but you won't listen.
We get it. You don't listen to AM. That's your choice but you don't have the right to mock those who do.
AM will still be here in two freaking years,
Period
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Don't confuse programming with delivery. Those station all stream and if listeners like the format they'll find it there when AM shuts down.
 
wadio said:
Don't confuse programming with delivery. Those station all stream and if listeners like the format they'll find it there when AM shuts down.
Click to expand...

There's no point in shutting down the AM. If they play music, they receive a discount in their streaming royalty. In order to subscribe to Nielsen, they have to broadcast on something. Streaming alone won't qualify, as the folks at KRTY discovered. They need Nielsen for advertising. People sometimes forget that advertising pays for radio.
 
TheBigA said:
I'm pretty sure that's not a consideration of Brendan Carr.
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Since it was the increased appeal of Trump among Hispanics and Blacks that "won him the election" I think that ethnic groups may be of greater importance than you think.
 
briancraig said:
Almost 20 years ago during and after Hurricane Katrina, WWL AM was the only communication source for a wide area of the Gulf Coast for weeks. WWL’s daytime signal is listenable from Beaumont, TX to Panama City, FL.

2005, I know ancient history for the AM is no longer relevant crowd. What about 2024?

CBS did a story the other day on WWNC AM in Asheville, NC. Story said that after Hurricane Helene, more than a million people had no power and spotty cell service, but what they did have was the radio which was the only connection to the outside world.

For days, WWNC was a lifeline, “serving as a proxy dispatch service to help coordinate wellness checks and connect the stranded with nearby resources.”
Click to expand...
Immediately after the disasterous hurricane that hit Puerto Rico in 2017, there was one source of communication. All the phones were down. All cellular was down. Electricity was down. All TV stations were off, with the major ones having lost their whole 1000 foot tall towers. There was, though, one AM station, WKAQ AM 580 which kept on the air with its generator working and studios hastily moved to a part of the building that still had a roof.

Many people did not get electricity back for as long as several months. Cellular came back within the week in the big urban areas in most neighborhoods. Landlines were gone for months in most areas outside three or four of the bigger cities.

No single FM comes even close to covering all of Puerto Rico. But WKAQ on its low frequency could be heard, maybe not perfectly, but still "heard" all over the Island.
 
exdjted said:
And there is absolutely no way for anyone to quantify how many people actually listened to WWNC after the storm, or were even aware of the station unless they had been listeners in the past. Plenty of people born in the last 40 years have never even tuned in to an AM station, so they almost certainly didn't tune in this time. It's great that the resource was there, but even if someone tuned in for information immediately after the storm, chances are 99% of them won't tune in EVER again.
Click to expand...
But neighbors told each other.

And AM, nationally, is used every week by over a third of all people in rated markets. That is more than the dismal 1% you mention.
exdjted said:
If Congress ever offers tax breaks for turning in AM licenses, there's going to be a crap ton turned in immediately, and the numbers will astound even seasoned industry veterans.
Click to expand...
Nope. So many translators depend on their AM to sustain the translator on FM that they will continue to operate them until the FCC gives full "licensed station" status to translators.
exdjted said:
Maybe the band would be opened up so much that the remaining stations could get some significant power increases that may actually help them survive a few more years, and would be more useful than legislation the average person isn't aware of and couldn't care less about.
Click to expand...
Nobody buys radios. Brazil expanded the FM band, and allowed AMs to move there. Terribly unsuccessful.
 
exdjted said:
There is NO SAVING AM RADIO. Period. End of story.

Oh, Congress can mandate AM in cars. However, you can't force people to listen to AM. After the last few AM devotees die off, who the Hell is going to be around that cares enough to listen? A few DX'ers? Without listeners, it's dead. Truthfully, the main reason 90% of AMs still broadcast is to feed an FM translator. Other than a certain nameless owner from Western New York State and a loudmouth conservative billionaire with more money than brain cells, no one is running around proclaiming AM as a veritable cash-generating venture in 2024 and beyond. No broker I know has their phone ringing off the hook with buyers lining up to acquire AMs. As it should be.


And there is absolutely no way for anyone to quantify how many people actually listened to WWNC after the storm, or were even aware of the station unless they had been listeners in the past. Plenty of people born in the last 40 years have never even tuned in to an AM station, so they almost certainly didn't tune in this time. It's great that the resource was there, but even if someone tuned in for information immediately after the storm, chances are 99% of them won't tune in EVER again.

If Congress ever offers tax breaks for turning in AM licenses, there's going to be a crap ton turned in immediately, and the numbers will astound even seasoned industry veterans. Maybe the band would be opened up so much that the remaining stations could get some significant power increases that may actually help them survive a few more years, and would be more useful than legislation the average person isn't aware of and couldn't care less about.

By the way, this argument about saving AM Radio is going to be revisited in about 20 years, except it will be titled "Saving RADIO".
Click to expand...
I think most were listening to 100kw FM 99.9
 
TheBigA said:
Why would they do that? Please explain that concept.
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This came about years ago during a meeting between some legislators and industry professionals. It was just one of many ideas thrown about to clean up the glut of stations on BOTH bands. Certainly, it will never happen, mostly because of funding.

DavidEduardo said:
And AM, nationally, is used every week by over a third of all people in rated markets. That is more than the dismal 1% you mention.
Click to expand...
I said 99% of the people who listened DURING the hurricane were unlikely to tune in again. Do you really think people who get their facts from Facebook and TikTok are going to tune in to an AM station and become loyal listeners because they tuned in a couple of times during an emergency? Please.

Yeah, AM is SO healthy that a station owner I talked to last month isn't seriously considering selling his tower site to the city for a cemetery expansion, turning in the license and getting out of Radio completely. Maybe I misheard him.
 
exdjted said:
This came about years ago during a meeting between some legislators and industry professionals. It was just one of many ideas thrown about to clean up the glut of stations on BOTH bands. Certainly, it will never happen, mostly because of funding.
Click to expand...

Plus there is no benefit to the government for privately run radio stations to shut down. It's not like the government has better usage for the spectrum. They don't. Same thought with having stations with FM translators shutting off the AM. No benefit to the government in allowing that to happen. The station made a deal to get the translator. They are contractually obligated to keep their side of the deal. To quote incoming FCC chairman Carr: Broadcasters have the privilege of using a scarce and valuable public resource—our airwaves. In turn, they are required by law to operate in the public interest.
 
TheBigA said:
Plus there is no benefit to the government for privately run radio stations to shut down. It's not like the government has better usage for the spectrum. They don't. Same thought with having stations with FM translators shutting off the AM. No benefit to the government in allowing that to happen. The station made a deal to get the translator. They are contractually obligated to keep their side of the deal. To quote incoming FCC chairman Carr: Broadcasters have the privilege of using a scarce and valuable public resource—our airwaves. In turn, they are required by law to operate in the public interest.
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In a captive regulatory situation, "public interest" means only whatever three majority commissioners decide it means.

FCC rules have never been carved in marble. I'm sure the BigA of 1950, if one existed, would have been all on about how broadcasters of the era "are contractually obligated" to have a news department, conduct community ascertainment, and whatever other requirements were imposed on broadcasters back then but removed later on.

So it is with the imagined "deal" here. The AM dial in 2024 is neither "scarce" nor "valuable" (source: the zero bids received for the former KZQZ and its sisters in St. Louis).

Whatever scarcity and value still attaches to broadcast frequencies is entirely on the FM dial. As vague and hand-wavey as "the public interest" is, it can easily and swiftly be redefined by a Carr/Trump FCC to be met by a new primary Class T FM that will replace a primary AM license. The FCC regulatory fees might just happen to be the same as they were for the AM plus translator, so no revenue to the Commission gets lost.

Want to make the legal case that such a move would violate the LCRA? Go for it - but in the destabilized legal environment of the Trump courts, who knows how far you'll get? It's a new world coming.
 
fybush said:
Whatever scarcity and value still attaches to broadcast frequencies is entirely on the FM dial. As vague and hand-wavey as "the public interest" is, it can easily and swiftly be redefined by a Carr/Trump FCC to be met by a new primary Class T FM that will replace a primary AM license.
Click to expand...

Once again, how does that benefit the new administration? I remember one former commissioner, when asked what she would do about AM radio, said she'd just let the dinosaurs congregate among themselves and wait for them to become fuel for her SUV. In other words: Do Nothing. That's what I expect here. When you expect nothing, you're rarely disappointed.

On the other hand, if someone goes to them with a proposal where everyone agrees in advance, and all they need is an approval, instant win. Hold a big press conference in the oval office. Hooray. That's how things work in a transactional economy. That's what happened with something called the Music Modernization Act.
 
fybush said:
So it is with the imagined "deal" here. The AM dial in 2024 is neither "scarce" nor "valuable" (source: the zero bids received for the former KZQZ and its sisters in St. Louis).
.
Click to expand...
In a market as spread out as St. Louis, 1430 and 1490 are worthless signals. If 550 or 630 were up for bid or Audacy was selling KMOX, you know someone would buy
 
TheBigA said:
Where are you getting the idea that the government is spending ANY money on AM? As I said, the American system is based on private ownership of radio. The AM stations pay the FCC for the licensing process. The federal government isn't allowed to own any domestic radio stations that aim at the domestic audience. So no money is being spent. One agency we haven't talked about is DHS. They're the ones who spend money on things such as EAS service. But once again, they don't own radio stations. They simply route emergency information into the pipeline, and it's transmitted to all platforms, including AM radio. But AM is just part of the overall distribution.
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I believe that I was clear in stating that I don't want a case where someone claims AM radio must be preserved for the big emergency and the government might decide to go into the business to have a series of big transmitters to broadcast to an audience who can get emergency news elsewhere. It was a statement about the "what if" the last broadcaster sees the future and turns off the last AM station. And that will happen someday.
 
Dondd said:
True.

Not really. I recall someone once placing an FM antenna on a 100' antenna about 70-90 miles from a major Midwestern market oldies FM, to get music not found in most other markets.

Today, it's the opposite, when smaller markets carry oldies from the 60s and 70s.

And look at what happened to smooth jazz, classical and other formats. They rarely move from AM to FM.
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Those are formats that don't attract huge audiences in the advertiser approved demographics. Small stations that can't compete with mainstream programs will go for odies and other less desirable programming. If the formats were profitable they would be broadcast. The music you describe can be found on the internet and elsewhere and that's where they will remain unless a larger demand for it comes in the future. And that is how is should be. The profitable formats will migrate to FM or elsewhere.
I wish your friend with the expensive 100 foot antenna had checked the internet. He could have saved himself a lot of effort.
 
exdjted said:
By the way, this argument about saving AM Radio is going to be revisited in about 20 years, except it will be titled "Saving RADIO".
Click to expand...

Actually, that’s what this discussion should be about NOW. And it should have started 25-30 years ago.
 
exdjted said:
I said 99% of the people who listened DURING the hurricane were unlikely to tune in again. Do you really think people who get their facts from Facebook and TikTok are going to tune in to an AM station and become loyal listeners because they tuned in a couple of times during an emergency? Please.
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That's not my point. As it is, week in and week out, over 30% of U.S. adults use AM radio.
exdjted said:
Yeah, AM is SO healthy that a station owner I talked to last month isn't seriously considering selling his tower site to the city for a cemetery expansion, turning in the license and getting out of Radio completely. Maybe I misheard him.
Click to expand...
There are lots of stations that did not file for translators and who have bad AM facilities or are in markets that today can't support a station.

Any daytimer is going to be unprofitable as a commercial general market station. A few may survive doing religious or ethnic programming, but even those are in jeopardy if they don't have a translator.

Most of the former Class IV stations in metro areas (1230, 11240, 1340, 1400, 1450, 1490) just can't cover enough without high noise levels. A few of those in small markets can make it, but that is a category that is nearly hopeless: high dial positions and low power.

Many regional channel stations licensed or allocated after WW II are so directional that their markets have outgrown them. And even some of the more powerful stations are also so directional as to not cover their metro area day and night.

Example: Cleveland, Ohio. One AM station fully covers the whole market. The others: 850 so directional it misses parts of the market, particularly at night; same goes for 50 KW 1220. 1260, 1300 and 1420 are so directional they miss big parts of the market. 1490 is a (former) Class IV and does not even cover well the Black community it used to serve when I went to work there when I was 13. And 1540, a daytimer, turned in its license.

But that one good station does well in ratings and bills well. So if you look at the viable stations, they still can make money for quite a few years.
 


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