Say Goodbye to the AM Band

[Surfer]

Realistically now...isn't it time the FCC shut down AM radio? It's not good sound quality, it can't compete with other media, and engineers hate to work on the things.

 

[tjthedj]

What are you, 15 years old?

AM RULES in large markets. Look at the Arbitrons. WGN, Chicago made 27 million dollars last year. I say shut down that slob, Howard.

 

[fred flintstone]

AM still has a place - especially in the land between the Appalachians and the Rockies and other not-densely populated areas. In such areas, AM radio's greater coverage is an assett.

What needs to be done is to (1) Unclutter the AM band. Expand the FM when VHF TV shuts down into channels five and six and move most current AM stations off the AM band. (2) Make remaining AMs into regional "superstations" on clear or semi-clear channels at 50k or greater (maybe WLW could dust off the old 500kw transmitter). These stations would operate under the "old rules" and be required to broadcast local-live programming (all or most of the time) and to maintain a regional news operation (within specified standards) and broadcast regional news. Return AM to its roots.

In addition, some current 50kw I-A and B stations might be re-located from the two coast to interior areas. I would see AM no longer operating in major markets, but not elsewhere.

 

[tjthedj]

So - penalize the "little guys" - ROB them of their station! ...HELP the big guys. That's smart- not.

You'd be a great NAB staff member.

Your "news idea" gets into programming. The fcc already meddles enough.

Back to the drawing board, Fred.

 

[fred flintstone]

So - penalize the "little guys" - ROB them of their station! ...HELP the big guys. That's smart- not.

You'd be a great NAB staff member.

Your "news idea" gets into programming. The fcc already meddles enough.

Back to the drawing board, Fred.

Hey, read the post. I moved the so-called "little guys" to an expanded FM band. I was being charitable. Right now all these Class Ds on local channels, daytimers and boondock stations do is clutter up the band and cause interference that hurts viable stations and drives away listeners. I was being charitable. I really think most AM stations should be shut down (my cut off would be any station licensed since the Havana Treaty).

There are a few exceptions, but mostly hick stations serve no useful purpose. Because local is the only distinction they have, they clutter the airwaves with local garbage nobody cares about - except those directly involved (like the owner's friends, local politicians and bureaucrats). If there is a nearby large market, that's what people listen to - not the local boonie station.

 

[Surfer]

I say get out while you can! Radio's dead. Without Martin & Lewis we're all sunk! Bring back Mutual Radio!

Oh, uhhh, sorry. Brief sanity lapse. I like working in a business where my opinions don't count, my programming choices don't matter, the audience isn't there and the government wants to mess with my only way of living. Maybe I shouln't complain.

 

[tjthedj]

Fred, I totally disagree with you. You are as full of bs as your buddy Holland.


I'm glad you are the judge of "hick." My am astation grossed over
300k a year, and was 1 hick thing after another - inbetween 18 minutes of commercials every hour.

By the way, whose gonna pay for "moving to the expanded fm band, and what will people do with all of those USELESS am radios around the house. O wait, I know, listen to a superstation that is 200 miles away. That's really better use of the bandwith.


Surfer, You sound sane to me!

Mutual? BWEEEEE - DOOP.

(time for local stuff inserted here)

- School lunch menus

- run the dairy queen commercial and
the morning news roundup billboard with 8 sponsors mentioned.

Audience isn't there? You've been drinkin' with Barney again?

The morning news on my am station had a 29% audience share, 80 miles from Chicago. It's fm sister (that I also owned) had a 19% share.

 

[Surfer]

To "tjthedj"...

Congratulations! It's nice to hear somebody in radio talk about how they're successful instead of always getting the same lame excuse..."We'll not going to make budget again this year with the crap we've got to sell!"

I truly love radio success stories. It gives me hope that there are still people in the world who "get it".

Have a great day and keep up the good work! ;D

 

[fred flintstone]

I say get out while you can! Radio's dead. Without Martin & Lewis we're all sunk! Bring back Mutual Radio!

Oh, uhhh, sorry. Brief sanity lapse. I like working in a business where my opinions don't count, my programming choices don't matter, the audience isn't there and the government wants to mess with my only way of living. Maybe I shouln't complain.

And this makes radio different from other industries in what way?

Fred, I totally disagree with you. You are as full of bs as your buddy Holland.

(time for local stuff inserted here)

- School lunch menus

If would be a pretty dull board if everybody were in agreement.

School lunch menus? You really read that - on the air? Talk about useless information.
First off, schools post it on websites if anybody cares.
Second, what percentage of your listeners actually have kids in school? And do they all have the same menu or do you have to make people sit through a bunch of them before you tell them the weather forecast?
Third, how does that information matter - even to parents? OK, they are going to feed your kid sloppy joe's today! So what? Is any parent going to anything different with that information - even the helicopter parents?
It seems that radio spends a lot of time talking about stuff that serves no purpose except to give radio people something to talk about.

I also think reading school closings may have made sense at one time but now it is a total waste of airtime. You probably won't agree with that either but we can save it for another discussion.

And under my plan, Evanville would have an AM station with increased power. The other AM stations would go to FM (don't tell me you'd rather stay on AM). Face it, for much of the audience AM does not exist. They didn't grow up with it. They don't even consider it.

 

[clichemoth]

The hometown stations make money because they're the only outlets truly serving the areas they cover. However, they'd make even more money at the left side of an expanded FM band than they do now because they'd be listenable 24/7 with better building penetration and better sound quality.

As for the big boomers, very few of them care about listeners outside their market anyway, so they could also benefit from moving to what used to be channels 5 and 6 or to the HD2 program of another station, which would create a powerful incentive for people to buy new receivers that doesn't exist now.

 

[Yeziknoradio]

I can't speak for everyone, but indeed remember, if you talk...who cares if it's mono or stereo.
The All news formats, and talk radio should continue to do well for many years to come.

Plus, if the music was originally recorded in mono...

 

[fred flintstone]

I can't speak for everyone, but indeed remember, if you talk...who cares if it's mono or stereo.
The All news formats, and talk radio should continue to do well for many years to come.

Plus, if the music was originally recorded in mono...

All news doing well?
There are - what - maybe a dozen or so all news stations in the country.
A new one has not started up in - oh, maybe - 30 years.
And the existing all news stations are sneaking in other types of programming: Play by play sports; evening or weekend talk shows.
AP shut down its All News feed last year due to lack of interest (which rules out the format for all but major market blow-torches which can make up in number of listeners for the short TSLs).

All news demos are old.
Partly because conservative political talk appeals to angry old White people.
Mostly because its on AM which is off the radar for late boomers and post boomers.
Talk formats have already started migrating to FM, as music listeners migrate to satellite, Internet and mp3.

Look for FM to become talk, Urban music and Hispanic music.
Look for AM to become brokered, preachers, foreign language and infomercials.
Until they shut it down, which has already happened in parts of the world.

 

[SirRoxalot]

Look for FM to become talk, Urban music and Hispanic music.
Look for AM to become brokered, preachers, foreign language and infomercials.
Until they shut it down, which has already happened in parts of the world.

Fred, thank you for your view of the future of radio. It fails, however, to take into account a few pertinent facts:

1) The vast majority of markets, from the largest to the smallest, have viable AM stations that have decent numbers in demographics other than 65-Death. Those stations provide a variety of information, including news, talk, sports, etc. The key is that they provide timely information of interest to a large number of listeners. As long as they continue to provide that type of information better than anybody else in the market, people will continue to set a button or find the AM/FM switch.

2) Radio is an ever-evolving medium. There seems to be an innate need for some people to disseminate their ideas to others. AM radio provides an opportunity for those people. Successful AM stations will provide the opportunity to people who can attract enough listeners to interest sponsors.

3) There's nothing wrong with local stations providing local information and entertainment, no matter how "hick" that may seem to you. You might be surprised at the number of people who willingly live in small communities because they don't want, or care about, the problems that come with high population density. They do care about local high school and college sports, sales at local stores, and even issues at the local school board. Those people are called "citizens", and that type of community is very involved in their own governance. AM radio provides a lot of opportunities for the exchange of ideas. In some cases, they're the only local voice in the entertainment spectrum.

 

[tjthedj]

Hey Sir Rox, YOU are correct.

The menus wouldn't be sponsored for 30 years and neigther would pet patrol and trading post, O, and TWICE HOURLY farm markets, amd obituaries 3 times each day, also sponsored.

We haven't yet mentioned the local sports and local preachers, and even "local music groups" that were a regular feature.

How is it the station that all that was on BEAT WGN and WLS (numbers combined)?

"Hick" is what YOU make it. So is local news. The secret is knowing YOUR market. It was "a great place to live."

 

[OldGringo]

1) The vast majority of markets, from the largest to the smallest, have viable AM stations that have decent numbers in demographics other than 65-Death. Those stations provide a variety of information, including news, talk, sports, etc. The key is that they provide timely information of interest to a large number of listeners. As long as they continue to provide that type of information better than anybody else in the market, people will continue to set a button or find the AM/FM switch.

Most markets outside the first 4, have between 0 and 3 viable AMs (covering the market with at least a 5 mv/m signal day and night). Those that exist do sports or n/t almost exclusively.

And the AM band, 12-45, has about a 10 share only. All the "salable demos" that AM has left are 45-54. As we know, except for local direct, there is no agency call for 55+ listeners.

So, as the current 45-54's age, AM will be out of the sales demos in all the larger (rated) markets. In other words, dead as a ratings-getter and relegated to doing religion, certain ethninc formats and brokered infomercials. and such.

2) Radio is an ever-evolving medium. There seems to be an innate need for some people to disseminate their ideas to others. AM radio provides an opportunity for those people. Successful AM stations will provide the opportunity to people who can attract enough listeners to interest sponsors.

There are nearly no 12-45 year olds listening. They did not grow up on AM, and have no interest in it.

3) There's nothing wrong with local stations providing local information and entertainment, no matter how "hick" that may seem to you. You might be surprised at the number of people who willingly live in small communities because they don't want, or care about, the problems that come with high population density. They do care about local high school and college sports, sales at local stores, and even issues at the local school board. Those people are called "citizens", and that type of community is very involved in their own governance. AM radio provides a lot of opportunities for the exchange of ideas. In some cases, they're the only local voice in the entertainment spectrum.

Docket 80-90 pretty much made full service local radio in smaller markets unprofitable.

 

[OldGringo]

How is it the station that all that was on BEAT WGN and WLS (numbers combined)?

Bloomington?

 

[tjthedj]

Noper, not Bloomington. SMALLER market, but the cluster of statins I owned voveref the northern 1/3 of the state.

 

[tjthedj]

Nope, not Bloomington. SMALLER market, but the cluster of stations I owned covered the northern 1/3 of the state.

We had a 29% share on this station, but numbers really didn't matter when I sold ag accounts in Chicago. Relationships with the buyer often meant as much if not more than our good numbers. I brought the rep a "corn stalk" so he would remember who I am. THEY wanted to talk to our "wealthy" farmers and we could deliver - usually got the same buys as wgn.

We concentrated on PROGRAMMING (mostly standards music) and worked hard at sales, and were seldom disappointed. We dropped local names in various ways all over the station, played a few (horrible) local singers, and gave the people what they wanted.

We just "localized" what WGN did for Chicago. We did on-air music research by running 2 daily MUSIC BATTLES, playing 2 songs and having people vote on their favorite (often 20-40 calls per battle). Then the "champion" faces the next challenger. We did that for more than 10 years and kept careful track of things. Incidentally, the "music battle" was sponsored by a "big box" store.

We had a "phone sales department" that sold over a hundred grand a year selling "team boosters" "farm safety" "chamber of commerce promotion" also successfully sold 30+ miles from the station this way.

Add the Cubs, Sos, and Bears to a few local high schools, the Indy 500, even the Metropolitan Opera 20 weeks a year, the county fairs fo4 5 counties, no talk show but "voice of the people" where a question is asked and people call an answering machine that was recorded for on air use.

Sunday was local and national religion sign on to sign off, run by a couple of high school kids (great pr and revennue).

It works for newspapers. It worked just as well on local radio. Jason Jennings is a hero of mine. He helped my stations gain over a million dollars in revenue just on the phone. Now add 2 local salesmen and a national rep selling mostly ag ads and you have my formula for success.

 

[tjthedj]

By the way you guys that have to crunch every number and want to remove the local stuff etc., I DON'T CARE. What I did worked very well at the time for me.

I've been very blessed. Several of my business partners are DEAD. Several of the station owners around me waited MUCH too long to sell, and the guy I sold to (with an anti-local attitude like Fred and using the bird) has a much worse market and in fact, a shrinking market to sell in. I don't care. I got my money.

We are very happy. I did what I dreamed about doing (even more)since I was 12; owning not 1 but 4 places (an am and 3 fm's). My wife and I did a good job, SOLD all 4 places (and more) in 1985 for a million 4 hundred thousand on a rainy Saturday morning, and have moved on to a much better way of life, with holidays, vacations and no more getting up at 3:30am.

That way of life is thanks to God and MY good judgement, our hard work, good timing, and radio. I was at the right place at the right time.

 

[OldGringo]

By the way you guys that have to crunch every number and want to remove the local stuff etc., I DON'T CARE. What I did worked very well at the time for me.

I've been very blessed. Several of my business partners are DEAD. Several of the station owners around me waited MUCH too long to sell, and the guy I sold to (with an anti-local attitude like Fred and using the bird) has a much worse market and in fact, a shrinking market to sell in. I don't care. I got my money.

We are very happy. I did what I dreamed about doing (even more)since I was 12; owning not 1 but 4 places (an am and 3 fm's). My wife and I did a good job, SOLD all 4 places (and more) in 1985 for a million 4 hundred thousand on a rainy Saturday morning, and have moved on to a much better way of life, with holidays, vacations and no more getting up at 3:30am.

That way of life is thanks to God and MY good judgement, our hard work, good timing, and radio. I was at the right place at the right time.

Do you think your model would work today? My concern in many smaller to rural markets is that 80-90 overpopulated the landscape and made the economics of local programming more difficult. Add the gradual ageing of AM appeal, and I kind of think you made a brilliant decision to get out when you did.

I know of several people trying to make the concept work now, one in the IA/WI/IL area called Prairie Radio Communications, and wonder what the prospects are for them.