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Selana on KRTH

Re: Selena on KRTH? OH YES, YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!

> First of all, it's Selena not "Selana."
> Second, Selena is what we called a "bullet" song! When Todd
> Shannon was my boss at KJQY, we played both "Dreaming of
> You," and "I could Fall in Love." When Todd took over Q106,
> the first thing he did was add Selena to the playlist. She
> tests well, and isn't that what it's all about? As I've
> tried to explain previously, Oldies doesn't mean "50s and
> 60s," Oldies means "Former top 40," anything 10 years or
> older is game. And last time I checked, 10 years ago was
> 1996. So what, are we supposed to just focus on 50s and 60s
> and let the next 20 or 30 years of hits collect dust, while
> a whole generation of listeners run to JACK FM or buy Ipods?
> Folks, face it, if KEARTH is to survive (ie, compete with
> JACK), they need to cater to the 80s and 90s crowd (you know
> the 20 and 30 somethings who buy stuff that advertisers
> target). And yes, that means Selena, and yes, that means
> Hollywood.
> Deal with it.
>


Todd Shannon...thats your basis? Oldies doesn't mean "former Top 40"...it means a certain type of pop music catering to a certain (not 20 and 30 something) audience. In fact most oldies stations are geared somewhere in the 35-54 range depending how how they lean. 10 years ago??? Do you really picture an oldies station in 2006 playing... "Ironic" from Alanis, "Just A Girl" from No Doubt and "No Diggity" from Blackstreet??? Get real.
 
Re: Oldies are old songs.

>
> Todd Shannon...thats your basis? Oldies doesn't mean
> "former Top 40"...it means a certain type of pop music
> catering to a certain (not 20 and 30 something) audience.
> In fact most oldies stations are geared somewhere in the
> 35-54 range depending how how they lean.

No, not really. Most of the traditional oldies stations that now play fromt he mid-60's to the early 70's are "geared" for 45-65 year olds, with the balance moving to the over-55 demos, which are nearly unsalable in markets like LA. These stations have very few 25-34 listeners and scant few in the 35-44 demo.

> 10 years ago??? Do
> you really picture an oldies station in 2006 playing...
> "Ironic" from Alanis, "Just A Girl" from No Doubt and "No
> Diggity" from Blackstreet??? Get real.

Sure, why not? Those are oldies for 25-44 year olds.

The truest definition of "oldies" for me is "the music you grew up on." So those songs are perfect for a younger demo, so long as they still have acceptance.
 
Re: Selena and KRLA

> >
> > In 1992, KRLA had a 1.1 in Fall, if I recall correctly.
> > About 50% of its cume was Hispanic. KLAX had a 7.2 share.
> > KRLA was never "big" in the Hispanic community.
>
> At one time KRLA had much higher ratings than a 1.1, so to
> say they were never "big" in the Hispanic community is not
> accurate.

As Top 40, in the late 50's and early 60's, KRLA was a huge station. But it was not particularly Hispanic as the market was not very Hispanic then.

By the early 90's, the average annual share of KRLA with oldies was int he mid to low 2 share range, with 1's occasionally showing up. The Hisapanic compositon.

Winter 1995, KRLA had a 1.2 and in 1994 the 4 book average was a 1.4. When it had fallen to the low 1's, nobody but Hispanics were listening... about 70% of the cume was Hispanic. But we are talking of less than a quarter million who used KRLA 11 years ago... against over 4 million Hispanics in the market.

KRLA was a significantly Hispanic station up to its merciful format flip, but only because nobody else wanted to listen and then, few Hispanics litened, either.

It was definitely a "Small" station among Hispanics. In Winter, 1995 KOST had more Hispanic listeners than KRLA. So did KBIG. And KIIS. And KRTH.
>
>
> > Translation: plays stiffs.
>
> David, do you not believe in specialty shows at all?

Not ones that do not have a very strong tug on a segment of the existing audience in dayparts where normal listening and PUR are very low. I have many specialty shows I am involved with and created. But they are based on really compelling music and content in the time slot, not tertiary songs that nobody wants to hear.
>
> The old Johnny Hayes countdown show on KRLA sometimes played
> stiffs and did quite well. Dick Bartley will play some
> obscure oldies on his shows and he's been in syndication for
> 25 years.

And I always wondered why. I think the answer is that it was a better show than what local stations could do on a Saturday evening. You know, AT40 got on stations at the beginning by pitching that "its recorded, but it is better than your Sunday morning part timer."

> American Top 40 was successful for years and a
> lot of the songs between 40 and 21 would have been stiffs.

They were "moment of fame" songs. And they were embedded in some very compelling content. I work with the creator of AT40 in one of my outside gigs, and I will ask this very question.
>
 
What about the late 70s/early 80s top 40/oldies version of KRLA? I thought Art Laboe starting in 1976 always had english dominant Hispanics as his target audience for the station.

12+ ratings for KRLA

Spring 1979 3.5
Fall 1979 3.7
Spring 1980 3.8
Fall 1980 4.1
 
Those songs are 30 years old and hit the bulls-eye for the
desired 45 year olds K-Earth needs to stay alive.

I've tested them, in research(East Coast), and they test top 30 out of 600 titles.

Women love them because they don't listen to Classic Rock stations and they seem fresh to them.

Frampton, Steve Miller Band, even Boston need to be part of their mix.
The 45 year old target also likes Aretha, Stevie Wonder, and Elton John, too.

Based on "Oldies" music testing I've seen in the last 14 months, K-Earth's playlist looks pretty good.

David E. is biased against Oldies. It can be fixed and progress, but he thinks It's toast. He's wrong. (See WRBQ in Tampa, and KONO in San Antonio)

> Now that I'm listening to KRTH again, I do think they need
> to cut out the harder titles that don't seem to fit with the
> station, such as "Sweet Home Alabama." It is a good song,
> but doesn't really fit with the rest of the music.
> Someone else mentioned "China Grove." I have yet to hear
> that one on the station.
 
Bias?

> David E. is biased against Oldies. It can be fixed and
> progress, but he thinks It's toast. He's wrong. (See WRBQ
> in Tampa, and KONO in San Antonio)

David is not biased against Oldies, he has simply taken the perfectly logical position that an Oldies station that remains focused on 50s and 60s titles will gain a demographic that is unsalable to the national advertisers.

The real bias comes from Oldies fans who believe the format must not play newer music. To those fans, progressing the format is anathema. The Oldies board is full of threads in which these fans insist that the format needs to remain unchanged and that the advertising agencies must be somehow "convinced" to market to 55+ listeners.

Those people don't think the format needs "fixing", but if David or I speak the truth -- and we do agree that the format will die unless updated -- we are attacked as being doomsayers.

In any event, I believe you misunderstand David's point of view. <P ID="signature">______________


</P>
 
Re: Sel3na on KRTH

>
> David E. is biased against Oldies. It can be fixed and
> progress, but he thinks It's toast. He's wrong. (See WRBQ
> in Tampa, and KONO in San Antonio)

I am not biased against oldies. I have put 9 oldies stations on the air in the last 6 months, in fact.

I am biased against stations that do not move out of the 60's mindset, as that will kill the format and its potential to grow through moving into the next decade of music. Already, media buyers cringe when they hear the "oldies" term... the reason the Jack type stations asked Arbitron not to be called oldies but "Adult Hits."
 
> What about the late 70s/early 80s top 40/oldies version of
> KRLA? I thought Art Laboe starting in 1976 always had
> english dominant Hispanics as his target audience for the
> station.
>
> 12+ ratings for KRLA
>
> Spring 1979 3.5
> Fall 1979 3.7
> Spring 1980 3.8
> Fall 1980 4.1

That was 25 years ago, so pretty irrelvant. The Hispanic market here has tripled since then... from just over 1.5 million to around 5 million today.

Those Hispanics who have arrived since then don't generally listen to English oldies. In fact, 74% of the Hispanics over 25 in LA were born outside the USA.
 
>
> That was 25 years ago, so pretty irrelvant. The Hispanic
> market here has tripled since then... from just over 1.5
> million to around 5 million today.
>
> Those Hispanics who have arrived since then don't generally
> listen to English oldies. In fact, 74% of the Hispanics over
> 25 in LA were born outside the USA.


David, your original statement was that KRLA was "never big in the Hispanic community." You didn't state they weren't big in the last 25 years, but you said "never."

I'm saying that among the 1.5 million Hispanics in the market in 1980, KRLA was a big station.

Granted that is irrelevant to L.A. radio in 2006. I'm just pointing out that your original statement was not correct.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by briancraig on 02/18/06 03:24 AM.</FONT></P>
 
> David, your original statement was that KRLA was "never big
> in the Hispanic community." You didn't state they weren't
> big in the last 25 years, but you said "never."

It was not big in the Hispanic community EVER based on Hispanic shares. If there are 5 or 6 stations at least with higher Hispanic shares, then KRLA was not big.
>
> I'm saying that among the 1.5 million Hispanics in the
> market in 1980, KRLA was a big station.

It was not even in the Top 5 in reaching Hispanics.
>
> Granted that is irrelevant to L.A. radio in 2006. I'm just
> pointing out that your original statement was not correct.
>

Sure was. The only English stations in the market that have been "big" among Hispanics in the last 25 years are ones like KIIS and KPWR, which serve and served the second generation young Hispanic. There are just not enough Pochos to make a station like KRLA (Or Jammin' Oldies) work. In fact, KRTH always had more Hispanics in its cume than KRLA did.
 
Re: Oldies are old songs.

> Sure, why not? Those are oldies for 25-44 year olds.
>
> The truest definition of "oldies" for me is "the music you
> grew up on." So those songs are perfect for a younger demo,
> so long as they still have acceptance.

Exactly, I've always thought of "OLDIES" as music released during a listener's "impressionable years" - High school and/or college years.

Someone graduating high school in 1965 would be about 60 today... not truly sellable. I think we'll see more 70s and 80s, and quite possibly (hopefully) more 80s and 90s stations pop up in the coming 24 months or so.
 
Re: Sel3na on KRTH

> I am biased against stations that do not move out of the
> 60's mindset, as that will kill the format and its potential
> to grow through moving into the next decade of music.
> Already, media buyers cringe when they hear the "oldies"
> term... the reason the Jack type stations asked Arbitron not
> to be called oldies but "Adult Hits."

Yes, but I think we agree, media buyers don't even look at the FORMAT as long as the numbers are there.

I believe the better format term for an Oldies station, that wants to compete today, is "Classic Hits"...which should cover hits from the 60s(a few titles)to
the early 90s. Pop, Rock, and R&B.

David, I always respect your opinions.
 
Re: Bias?

> In any event, I believe you misunderstand David's point of
> view.

I should have said biased against "tradional" Oldies stations.
And, he's correct.

I progam an "Oldies" station(we don't call it that on-air)
in a Top 50 market that has gone UP 25-54 in the last three "books",
while our average age of listener has gone DOWN! Core music 67-79.

I'm just saying in most markets a new-style Oldies station can compete 25-54.
Check out WRBQ Tampa (like K-Earth, a CBS station).

I hope K-Earth figures out their formula. It'd be a shame if they
went away.
 
Re: Bias?

I can see the point that advertisers don't want older listeners. Absolutely true, just look at TV and movies, dominated by programs appealing to that demographic.

However, I disagree that younger people, even teens, don't like, or can't like, "old" music. A friend of mine has a 14 year old daughter who knows more about the Beatles than I do. The fastest selling CD in Starbucks' new series is the Sinatra one. How many people of any age know the words to (and love) "Respect" or "I Feel Good?" Those songs are timeless (albeit overplayed on K-Earth.)

I am not so sure that 90's tunes are going to last in that way, or 80's tunes either. What's a timeless tune from the 80's or 90's, something that appeals to most anybody of any age? I'm sure there are some but I can't think of one....
 
>
> You just named the 5th, 7th and 9th highest billing radio
> stations in LA. That hardly sounds like a confused set of
> stations. Actually, it sounds like very focused stations.

I'll grant you KOST, but I thought KBIG and Star were having some trouble recently ratings-wise.


> Oldies listeners are not generally classic rock listeners.
> Many of these songs have rested several decades for the
> oldies listener.

You may be right about that. I suppose many people listened to top 40 back in the 70's and then sat out the heavy classic rock years. Still, look at the car ads and such on TV. Zeppelin, T Rex, Dire Straits..... Classic rock gets a lot of exposure...

> >
> > Last point: The Hispanic audience LIKES oldies, the way
> they
> > are. KRLA was huge in the Hispanic community,
>
> In 1992, KRLA had a 1.1 in Fall, if I recall correctly.
> About 50% of its cume was Hispanic. KLAX had a 7.2 share.
> KRLA was never "big" in the Hispanic community. It simply
> had an image of being LA flavored "low rider" oldies.
>

Well, KLAX is tough to beat - little competition and a large audience which wants to hear Spanish-language. However, 50 percent Hispanic for KRLA sounds...pretty Hispanic!


> > Real last point: The average listener has no idea who the
> > K-Earth jocks are, and never has. Don't think the liner
> > cards matter, really.
>
> You are saying that Steele and Morgan and the others were
> not relevant to the KRTH listeners of the 80's and 90's?
> Give me a break.

I think the phrase "never has" is was too strong. I should have said "and hasn't mattered for a while." If you grew up listening to those jocks, then they matter to you. But on the K-Earth of the last, oh, decade, with the jocks not being allowed to really express any individuality, they cease to really matter. No knock against those DJ's. If anything, I think having some jocks with personality would make me want to listen.

It's a little like KLOS: if you grew up listening to KMET or KLOS when classic rock was just called "rock," then the names Bob Coburn, Joe Benson, and Rita Wilde mean something to you. If you're too young, or if you moved here from somewhere else, then those are just names, and it's the music you're listening for.


> >
> > Real real last point: Would it kill K-Earth to at least
> > have a Sunday night show hosted by a knowledgable oldies
> DJ
> > who breaks out the unheard records?
>
> Translation: plays stiffs.


They can just throw us a bone.... KOLA has a pretty good Sunday night show, which I wish I could pick up better....



>
 
> The real question is this.....change to what? From what
> people have said on this board, AAA wouldn't work (I don't
> exactly agree with that statement but to each his own),
> CHR/Top 40 would not, more AC would fragment the market,
> we've all ready got all the spanish stations we can handle,
> etc.
>
>

Excellent point. Perhaps they need to stop trying to make oldies a top 10 format and settle for at least making SOME money. Not every station can be top 10.
 
Re: Selena on KRTH? OH YES, YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!

> First of all, it's Selena not "Selana."
> Second, Selena is what we called a "bullet" song! When Todd
> Shannon was my boss at KJQY, we played both "Dreaming of
> You," and "I could Fall in Love." When Todd took over Q106,
> the first thing he did was add Selena to the playlist. She
> tests well, and isn't that what it's all about? As I've
> tried to explain previously, Oldies doesn't mean "50s and
> 60s," Oldies means "Former top 40," anything 10 years or
> older is game. And last time I checked, 10 years ago was
> 1996. So what, are we supposed to just focus on 50s and 60s
> and let the next 20 or 30 years of hits collect dust, while
> a whole generation of listeners run to JACK FM or buy Ipods?
> Folks, face it, if KEARTH is to survive (ie, compete with
> JACK), they need to cater to the 80s and 90s crowd (you know
> the 20 and 30 somethings who buy stuff that advertisers
> target). And yes, that means Selena, and yes, that means
> Hollywood.
> Deal with it.
>

I disagree. Part of K-Earth's success is its sound, its brand. Certain 70's songs seem to fit in, like Elton, Doobies, some disco... Once you hit the 80's, the "sound" of that era's music is just too different, and in my opinion, is simply not as univerally appealing. People began listening to niche stations, and there just aren't as many BIG songs that everyone remembers.

For example, I am in the demographic that marketers want. I listen to quite a bit of music. However, though I heard of Selena, vaguely, because of the notoriety of her death, I've never heard one of her songs. So if I heard Selena on K-Earth, it wouldn't be nostalgia moment, it would be a "what is this?" moment.
 
Re: Oldies are old songs.

> The truest definition of "oldies" for me is "the music you
> grew up on." So those songs are perfect for a younger demo,
> so long as they still have acceptance.
>

I think some of the currently popular music, especially explicit rap, is no longer going to appeal to young people when they get older. Is the kid listening to Eminem or Jay Z right now going to want to hear that when he turns 35, or 60? Will seniors crank tunes with heavy bass featuring lyrics about shooting your wife and dumping her body in the trunk, or busting caps in yo "m#@$%#$%$#@% a@#$?" Doubt it. Unlike Aretha or Otis Redding, this is music that people will probably outgrow as they mature. Time will tell I guess...
 
Re: Sel3na on KRTH

> > I am biased against stations that do not move out of the
> > 60's mindset, as that will kill the format and its
> potential
> > to grow through moving into the next decade of music.
> > Already, media buyers cringe when they hear the "oldies"
> > term... the reason the Jack type stations asked Arbitron
> not
> > to be called oldies but "Adult Hits."
>
> Yes, but I think we agree, media buyers don't even look at
> the FORMAT as long as the numbers are there.
>
> I believe the better format term for an Oldies station, that
> wants to compete today, is "Classic Hits"...which should
> cover hits from the 60s(a few titles)to
> the early 90s. Pop, Rock, and R&B.
>
> David, I always respect your opinions.

Classic hits, unfurtunately, confuses the buyers with classic rock. But I aree that it is a better name unless the "oldies" position can be changed from "music for 60-year-olds" to something else.
>
 
Re: Bias?

> I progam an "Oldies" station(we don't call it that on-air)
> in a Top 50 market that has gone UP 25-54 in the last three
> "books",
> while our average age of listener has gone DOWN! Core music
> 67-79.

Nobody denies that the average age can not be lowered. My oldies stations have an average age of between 33 (Phoenix) and 37 (LA) and yet they even have a few 50's titles in the library!

But, because of the reticence to change by many stations, we often get lumped in the oldies basket due to format, deespite our demos (in PHX, largest demo owas 25-34). Our McAllen one debuted at #1 25-54, with a #3 in 18-34 with only 7 weeks of the book on the air.
>
> I'm just saying in most markets a new-style Oldies station
> can compete 25-54.
> Check out WRBQ Tampa (like K-Earth, a CBS station).

WRBQ is even top 10 in 18-34, not an often seen thing with that fomrat.
>
> I hope K-Earth figures out their formula. It'd be a shame
> if they
> went away.

Their big problem is that the Hispanic population forms a bubble in the younger dmeos, making penetration of 35-44 hard, and impeding 54-54. With 55% of the 18-34 being Hispanic, there is awall there. And 74% of Hispanics in LA were board abroad, so very very few will be English oldies listeners, as the format is irrelevant to them.

So KRTH has very special challenges due to the ethnicity of the market. The broad assumption is that most immigrants did not grow up on US CHR songs of the 60's or 70's or later.
 
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