SHINING THE SPOTLIGHT ON........

[doowopvault]

On this weeks Rockin Boppin Doo Wop Vault, we shine the spotlight at the start of the show on a very underrated group, Sid King and the Five Strings, plus great rare r&b cuts too!!!. The show is available 24/7 www.doowopvault1950s.podomatic.com while you are there, checkout the archives, they are all free to download, enjoy!!!

 

[Thomps2525]

Since there are two threads referring to the Doo-Wop Vault, I guess I'm justified in posting the same comments twice:

It is my theory that of all the doo-wop shows and channels that have ever existed, 99% were called "Doo-Wop Shoppe."

In 2004-5, KSUR-1260, located in Mission Hills but licensed to the ritzier-sounding Beverly Hills, had a 1950s-60s oldies format, giving heavy airplay to the lower-charting oldies that were being ignored by other oldies stations. On Sunday afternoons, John Regan hosted a show called "Finger-Poppin' & Doo-Woppin'." He loved to play requests and even tracked down a copy of Marie by the Harps, which I had asked him to play. (However, he was unable to find a copy of Ring-A-Ding by Carlo Mastrangelo of the Belmonts.) Doo-wop has not been played on Los Angeles radio since. Four years ago, FM oldies station KRTH dropped all the pre-1964 songs. So...the Doo-Wop Vault is much appreciated!

 

[doowopvault]

Since there are two threads referring to the Doo-Wop Vault, I guess I'm justified in posting the same comments twice:

It is my theory that of all the doo-wop shows and channels that have ever existed, 99% were called "Doo-Wop Shoppe."

In 2004-5, KSUR-1260, located in Mission Hills but licensed to the ritzier-sounding Beverly Hills, had a 1950s-60s oldies format, giving heavy airplay to the lower-charting oldies that were being ignored by other oldies stations. On Sunday afternoons, John Regan hosted a show called "Finger-Poppin' & Doo-Woppin'." He loved to play requests and even tracked down a copy of Marie by the Harps, which I had asked him to play. (However, he was unable to find a copy of Ring-A-Ding by Carlo Mastrangelo of the Belmonts.) Doo-wop has not been played on Los Angeles radio since. Four years ago, FM oldies station KRTH dropped all the pre-1964 songs. So...the Doo-Wop Vault is much appreciated!

Thanks for the support. It really makes me laugh when I hear people on this board say "Doo Wop doesn't sell". Their info, of couse, comes from some useless company whose job it is to tell stations what genre should/shouldn't be played. Funny how the smaller independent stations are doing fine playing 50'S 60'S oldies. Funny how oldies dance nights at various clubs are packed year after year. Funny how the PBS specials are sold out. But.....we are told there isn't a market for it. Btw, I have a copy of Ring A Ding, i'll play it on Wednesday's show. My show has been on WKVA GOLD HITS 920 for some time now, doesn't stream on the web because of having to pay royalties TWICE...once for the terrestrial broadcast and again for the web. So what I do is run the WKVA show on my podcast.

 

[Thomps2525]

We plug radio shows. Can we also plug a book? Doo-Wop, The Forgotten Third Of Rock 'N Roll by Anthony Gribin and Matthew Schiff was published by Krause Publications in 1992. It includes an explanation of the style, a brief history of the music, histories of the record labels, and a huge discography alphabetized by group name. There is also a list of what the authors say are the 500 greatest doo-wop songs. Unfortunately, the list is alphabetical by group name instead of being in numerical order. Oh well.

The book lists six singles by Carlo Mastrangelo: four on Laurie in 1963-64 and two on Raftis in 1970. I mentioned Ring-A-Ding but the title is Ring-A-Ling. I must have been thinking of Sinatra!

 

[wrsg915fm]

My wife bought me that book as a Christmas present, and it's a must-read for doowop fans.

 

[Thomps2525]

You can say that even though the first chapter is titled "A Doo-Wop In The Bucket"? Ouch!

Tony Gribin was a psychologist and Matthew Schiff was a psychiatrist---very unusual for two guys with those occupations to write such a book! But I'm glad they did.

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for the support. It really makes me laugh when I hear people on this board say "Doo Wop doesn't sell".

Doo Wop doesn't sell what? Advertising? Records? Downloads? Concert tickets?

Since we are on a radio board, it can certainly be asserted that doo wop does not help to sell anything but minimal advertising buys. But that is not a comment on whether the music is good or bad... just the reality of the fact that advertisers, mostly, pick their target consumers and doo wop partisans are not generally in that target.

Their info, of couse, comes from some useless company whose job it is to tell stations what genre should/shouldn't be played.

Oh, please.

Radio stations try to get audiences in the broad 18-54 age range. That's because there is nearly no ad revenue for stations catering to 55+ and under 18. Fact of life.

No "company" tells stations what to play and what not to play.

Larger radio stations contract for individualized, market specific research to tell them how to best reach specific groups of people within the "sales demos" and they use the research results to create playlists for their stations.

If no listeners in the target of a station wants to hear any doo wop songs, they won't play them.

Funny how the smaller independent stations are doing fine playing 50'S 60'S oldies.

Generally, those smaller stations are rimshot FMs or suburban Class A FMs or incomplete coverage AMs or AM daytimers that have no other option. Sometimes, when coupled with other programming, some of these stations can eke out a small profit playing 50's and 60's and doing a doo wop show or two.

Significant stations (FM only) with full market coverage are not going to play doo wop. Even those few AMs (less than 175 in top 100 markets) that actually cover their markets day and night are not going to do it.

Funny how oldies dance nights at various clubs are packed year after year.

Yeah, and the Indian Gaming Casinos live off doo wop and singers who look like their idea of good TV is "77 Sunset Strip" but in all these cases, those small groups are not enough to populate the needed cume of a significant radio station.

My show has been on WKVA GOLD HITS 920 for some time now

WKVA is a perfect example of the kind of station that can have specialty shows. Mifflin County is not part of an MSA, so no ratings pressure. The AM, which only covers adequately about 30,000 persons, is owned by a cluster with two nice small FMs that can sustain most of the overhead.

But for most stations, that kind of feel-good specialty show will not work.

doesn't stream on the web because of having to pay royalties TWICE...once for the terrestrial broadcast and again for the web. So what I do is run the WKVA show on my podcast.

You ought to do some research. I believe that the playing live or otherwise copyright music is subject to performing rights fees, and digital is subject to the terms of the DMCA.

 

[TheFonz]

Radio stations try to get audiences in the broad 18-54 age range. That's because there is nearly no ad revenue for stations catering to 55+ and under 18. Fact of life.

Let me try to help the folks with this by using an anology I used about 10 years ago on the '50s '60s Oldies board: Radio is the Pimp, the advertiser is the John and the listener is the Ho. The John is constantly looking for younger Hos. But the Pimp has a problem finding younger Hos..................many have left the Pimpdom. So the John stops doing business with the Pimp and finds other sources to fill his needs. Soon we find the Pimp closing the doors on his business and working at the local car wash. And as for the older Hos, they are doing just fine. They too have found other sources. And they will live happily ever after. The End.

 

[davideduardo]

Radio stations try to get audiences in the broad 18-54 age range. That's because there is nearly no ad revenue for stations catering to 55+ and under 18. Fact of life.

Let me try to help the folks with this by using an anology I used about 10 years ago on the '50s '60s Oldies board: Radio is the Pimp, the advertiser is the John and the listener is the Ho. The John is constantly looking for younger Hos. But the Pimp has a problem finding younger Hos..................many have left the Pimpdom. So the John stops doing business with the Pimp and finds other sources to fill his needs. Soon we find the Pimp closing the doors on his business and working at the local car wash. And as for the older Hos, they are doing just fine. They too have found other sources. And they will live happily ever after. The End.

That has to be about the worst analogy I've ever seen in any context.

First, radio is free. And legal.

Prostitution is illegal, and costs money.

You don't need an intermediary to listen to the radio. You turn it on, you listen. No special tools... er, pimps, required.

It took you 10 lines to explain your analogy.

Here is the reality.

Radio stations try to attract an audience by providing free programming that appeals to lots of listeners. If they succeed, advertisers who want to reach those listeners will pay to put their message on the air. The station makes money, and stays on the air, offering free programming.

Shorter, clearer, more truthful. And zero calories.

 

[oldies76]

Radio stations try to get audiences in the broad 18-54 age range. That's because there is nearly no ad revenue for stations catering to 55+ and under 18. Fact of life.

The fact of radio! Many people over 55 listen to the radio, too bad you refuse to capitalize on them.

In the meantime......back on our local AM, spilling out the music for 55+ listeners 24/7

 

[oldies76]

First, radio is free.

Rent, equipment, transmitter, license fees, maintenance, staff, utilities, auditorium tests (for what it's really worth)...etc..etc.., and the person buying the RADIO to hear radio.

Nothing's free.

 

[davideduardo]

First, radio is free.

Rent, equipment, transmitter, license fees, maintenance, staff, utilities, auditorium tests (for what it's really worth)...etc..etc.., and the person buying the RADIO to hear radio.

Nothing's free.

OTA radio is free to the the consumer.

 

[davideduardo]

The fact of radio! Many people over 55 listen to the radio, too bad you refuse to capitalize on them.

Radio's revenue comes from advertisers. If that group, pretty much universally, does not wish to reach 55+ listeners and will not spend to reach them, then what you have is "reality" and not "refusal".

 

[doowopvault]

Eduardo....I have no idea WHY i'm responding, I guess it's my personality, but.......Doo Wop is being banished from the radio not because there isn't much advertising revenue to be had, what it comes down to is whom has the most desposable spending money and payola. People from 18 to their 20's are generally living with their parents. Not paying rent, mortage, heat, electric etc. They are the group buying the $120.00 sneakers, designer Jeans, CD's etc. they are the group who, when they see an artist wearing a certain style of clothes, they will run out and buy them. So corporate radio will play the artists that the corporate labels have an investment in and are maketing. So they get businesses that also gear their products to that same age group and charge them an arm and a leg to advertise on the stations.


Next we have the connection between corporate radio and the corporate labels.It was discovered in NY about 7 or 8 years ago, how the corporate labels were paying thousands per play to the corporate stations. So here is the problem, Doo Wop isn't played because of a lack of advertisers or listeners, it isn't played because the labels aren't around anymore, the artists aren't around anymore, so where is the payola going to come from? Where do you think all these trips and cruises come from that the stations give away? what...you think the stations are paying for it, PLEASE!!!!!!! So get your Cumes and your PPMS, go in your bathroom, flip up the toilet lid and dump them, because in the real world they mean nothing. read the article http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1506321/sony-bmg-apologizes-payola-practices.jhtml

 

[davideduardo]

Doo Wop is being banished from the radio not because there isn't much advertising revenue to be had, what it comes down to is whom has the most desposable spending money and payola.

The music industry is having more problems than even radio is having. In fact, far from paying for plays, it is lobbying in DC to get radio stations to fork over a percentage of revenues.

In any case, even in the worst eras of payola and alleged payola, labels only pushed current music because that was where the big sales and new artists came from. Labels did not pay to have recurrents played. Labels did not pay to have gold played. And they certainly did not pay to have 50 to 60 year old songs played.

But that little detail aside, the fact is that doo wop appeals to people in their 60s and beyond for the most part. Advertisers look for consumers with easily forged or easily changed buying habits and older consumers are a much harder... often unprofitable... sell. And that's why you may go an entire lifetime selling to agencies and never, ever see one buy that targets 55+. I know I never have, and I made my first ad sale in 1961.

People from 18 to their 20's are generally living with their parents. Not paying rent, mortage, heat, electric etc. They are the group buying the $120.00 sneakers, designer Jeans, CD's etc. they are the group who, when they see an artist wearing a certain style of clothes, they will run out and buy them.

That is exactly why agencies and advertisers target younger consumers. They make an immediate sale, and can create a brand loyalty out of it, too.

So corporate radio will play the artists that the corporate labels have an investment in and are maketing.

Who owns a label is rather unimportant. What matters in radio is whether a format appeals to a consumer group that advertisers are looking for.

So they get businesses that also gear their products to that same age group and charge them an arm and a leg to advertise on the stations.

If you owned a station, would you not try to pick a format that reached a large group of listeners? A consequence of being successful in that endeavor is being able to charge proportionally high ad rates and making a profit.

It beats not making a profit and losing your station.

Next we have the connection between corporate radio and the corporate labels.It was discovered in NY about 7 or 8 years ago, how the corporate labels were paying thousands per play to the corporate stations.

And, in fact, that investigation was headed by the now disgraced Attorney General of New York State.

The practice was not conducted by the labels, but by independent promotion outfits hired by the labels. The practice was not "paying for play" but paying stations a fee to have the right to report the adds to the trades. While the industry is better off without the taint of malfeasance that whole thing involved, it was not, strictly speaking, payola.

So here is the problem, Doo Wop isn't played because of a lack of advertisers or listeners, it isn't played because the labels aren't around anymore, the artists aren't around anymore, so where is the payola going to come from?

Again, labels never paid or attempted to influence the play of gold. they have never cared.

And doo wop appeals to a group that advertisers don't want to target.

It's not about record labels, payola, or anything other than the reality of the fact that advertisers don't pay to reach seniors.

Where do you think all these trips and cruises come from that the stations give away? what...you think the stations are paying for it, PLEASE!!!!!!!

They pay or trade for it... and since the stations that give away cruises are targeting the cruise-appeal demos, they are definitely not getting any record label help. The cruises are the preferred prizing on classic hits and traditional AC stations, not hip hop and CHR stations...

Of course, the labels themselves need help and are not giving anything away today anyway.

So get your Cumes and your PPMS, go in your bathroom, flip up the toilet lid and dump them, because in the real world they mean nothing.

Actually, nearly 100% of transactional radio business is placed using ratings as a metric to establish value and pricing. In the real world, they are a significant component to the agency sales effort of any significant radio station.

 

[landtuna]

I "came of radio age" just when Doo-Wop was fading away but still have good memories of cruising the streets with four-part harmonies ringing in my ears. I am not what you would call a DW "fan" though.

Doo-Wop got its legs on the street corners of Philly and other big eastern cities where amateur singers created their complex harmonies for fun and as a place to hang out. If any money was made in the early days it was tossed into hats.

The sound gradually morphed into what we now call Rock n Roll and the bands that lasted changed their sound. Like Disco, you recognize it when you hear it but you don't hear Doo-Wop very often.

To make a comeback Doo-Wop would have to be featured in a feature length movie staring some performers who the current crop of movie-goers recognize. Something on the order of "Glee" that would attract pre and current teens and maybe young adults as well. Maybe a bio-pic about Dion & The Belmonts or The Diamonds or The Crests or maybe an account of Doo-Wop itself. Given the right vehicle it could create interest in the genre again.

Too bad Travolta isn't available, or young, he'd be a great lead. ;D

 

[doowopvault]

Instead of dissecting it.....the proof would be in playing again on radio and let the listener decide. People don't care about research, cumes and ppm's, all they care about is what comes out of the speakers and is it enjoyable to their ears. Period. The only reason the crap that is played on the radio today is popular is because that's all that is played. Corporate radio and Corporate labels are molding the tastes of people, and they don't even realize it. They think that their tastes, likes etc are their own. Don't make me laugh. As the old saying goes....if a person only eats garbage...then garbage is all they'll know.

 

[landtuna]

Instead of dissecting it.....the proof would be in playing again on radio and let the listener decide. People don't care about research, cumes and ppm's, all they care about is what comes out of the speakers and is it enjoyable to their ears. Period. The only reason the crap that is played on the radio today is popular is because that's all that is played. Corporate radio and Corporate labels are molding the tastes of people, and they don't even realize it. They think that their tastes, likes etc are their own. Don't make me laugh. As the old saying goes....if a person only eats garbage...then garbage is all they'll know.

You are correct of course but it is also true that it costs money to exhibit music on the radio. Until someone can either spend their personal fortune to do that or a business person sees revenue potential in promoting Doo-Wop (or any other historic music genre) it will remain a hobbyist enterprise.

Just for grins, not long ago I saw in a catalog a huge collection of Doo-Wop music on CD. I cannot remember who published it but it was the largest collection I had ever seen. If someone was really that big a Doo-Wop fan all they'd need to spend is something like $150 and it would all be theirs forever.

 

[davideduardo]

The only reason the crap that is played on the radio today is popular is because that's all that is played. Corporate radio and Corporate labels are molding the tastes of people, and they don't even realize it.

The script calls for the entrance of the black helicopters now, but for budgetary reasons all the rotary wing aircraft have been grounded.

Your conspiracy theory about music tastes and airplay are ungrounded.

In the last decade... roughly coinciding with the introduction of the iPod and iTunes... and synchronized with YouTube and other streaming and video options... music tastes are formed by a variety of sources of which radio is just one.

Just as, in the prior two decades, MTV and VH1 helped form musical tastes, the Internet today not only exposes more new music than ever before, it also allows sampling of all kinds of retro sounds, from the crooners and big bands to classic country and doo wop and early rock 'n roll and rockabilly, to name a few.

People tend to like music of their generation. It speaks to their mood, their lifestyle and their taste. You are not going to get many young adults to spend time with doo wop.

Some people in their 60's and 70's appear to only like the music of their adolescence. They are quick to point out the year they believe "music died" and reject contemporary music of today. They also seem to post a lot to these boards.

I played Motown and the British Invasion as currents on the radio. I purchased, as a kid, doo wop and Buddy Holly and such. But today I download Pitbull, Shakira, Chris Brown, Train, Ke$sha, Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars, Maroon 5 and such. And I like it better than the old stuff I have in my MP3 collection.

So, while there may be some diehard doo wop fans left, they are few and not sufficient to sustain more than a non-rated specialty show or two. The music form appeals to a group that is not attractive to advertisers, and commercial radio lives off ad revenue.

No conspiracy, not plot against good music... just the reality of what most people want to hear on the radio.

 

[landtuna]

Some people in their 60's and 70's appear to only like the music of their adolescence. They are quick to point out the year they believe "music died" and reject contemporary music of today. They also seem to post a lot to these boards.

I have NO idea of whom you speak! ;D

I played Motown and the British Invasion as currents on the radio. I purchased, as a kid, doo wop and Buddy Holly and such. But today I download Pitbull, Shakira, Chris Brown, Train, Ke$sha, Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars, Maroon 5 and such. And I like it better than the old stuff I have in my MP3 collection.

Oh David! The reports of hearing loss and drain bramage are true then! How sad! ;D