Should channel 2 Worry

[Rick Rose 2.0]

I just saw a promo for channel 46's 11pm news where the weather girl promoted the fact that channel 2 won't have news at 11 tonight but CBS 46 will be on time tonight for news at 11pm. I saw some recent information that 2 has just over 50% of the news audience in this market while 5 has around 25 % of the markets households. I saw that 11 has a bit more than 15% and then 46 has just a little more than 5 % with only the noon and 11pm shows having any audience.

 

[FloydB]

I'm pretty sure WSB considers it a favor to give WGCL some 11pm coverage from time to time. This just goes to show that the new ND of WGCL has a huge mountain to conquer, as their predecessors have gone the other way. The only reason WGCL shows up on the radar is because of their lead-ins with TPIR before the noon and the CSIs on Monday and Wednesday nights.

 

[ClarkKent]

Forgive my apparent ignorance, but why should anybody at Channel 2 worry? They were late to news because of NBA Finals coverage, unless I'm mistaken...I'm betting that drew more eyeballs than anything GCL's bunch had to offer. Besides, it's what, a couple of nights? Hardly enough time for 46 to make an appreciable dent in the numbers.

 

[bpatrick]

Yes, it's the NBA playoffs that have forced Channel 2's
late newscast to air later (sort of off-topic, but I wonder
how well Channel 11 held the U.S. Open's primetime audiences
for its 11 PM newscasts Saturday and Sunday).

But I'm also wondering if Channel 2 has a bigger worry:
some of you are telling me that WSB-DT (Channel 39) does
not have the best reception, particularly on the fringes of
the DMA; one person told me he's had better luck with
WLOS-DT and WJBF-DT for ABC. Does this mean anything
for WSB's future as an ABC affiliate, or might ABC become
interested in WXIA-DT (Channel 10)?

 

[historybuff]

As far as I know WSB DT's antenna is side mounted on the analog tower behind the Carter Center. To my knowlege most of the other DT's are at the top of their towers (candelabra's, etc). My thought is that after the analog sunset next February the channel 2 batwing will be removed and the DT antenna moved up top. Hopefully the signal will then improve. I assume the same is true with WRBL and WTVM in Columbus. I drove past the Cusseta tower a few months back and did not see any evidence of a DTV antenna at any great height. Here where I live just north of Newnan I cannot lock in WRBL however my reciever does occasionally "see" a signal when I point my high gain Winegard antenna to the south. I have no problem with any Atlanta DT's including WSB 39. Maybe I'm on the best side of the tower. I would think that their current configuration is somewhat directional and have always thought it would be corrected after Feb 09. Back to Columbus WTVM DT is supposed to go back to channel 9 after the analog sunset. They may use the existing antenna which is below the WRBL channel 3 batwing. I would think that WRBL DT will move up top next year.

 

[upstate29651]

Does this mean anything
for WSB's future as an ABC affiliate, or might ABC become
interested in WXIA-DT (Channel 10)?

So if WXIA stays on DT-10, that means 11 will be available? Vice versa as well (WXIA goes to DT-11, now DT-10 is available). Shouldn't 2 or 5 be making a play for whichever one comes available?

G

 

[jal41]

No, WSB-TV has nothing to worry about for a little while, until Monica Pearson retires. Depending on how ABC is doing in 2015 or so, I don't see an affiliation swap due to WSB (although WSB would make a strong indie, there is no indication ABC is displeased with WSB after the addition of Jimmy Kimmel). Any swap would occur involving CBS and WGCL.

As for WSB-DT, has anyone called their engineering department? By law, the digital signal must match the reach of the analog signal. I am sure the FCC would grant a waiver if needed to allow WSB-DT more power above the maximum (1000kW). Cable and satellite subscription rates are high in the area (don't have the numbers, but I saw something once about 80-90 percent rate), so I don't think WSB has to panic.

Broadcasting and Cable reported in 2006 that WSB-TV plans to move to the top of the Willoughby tower after the transition (but since they are not changing DTV channels, they will not be in a rush).

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6394584.html

 

[younglee981]

I don't think they would worry. They have to broadcast DTV signals at a lower power to protect analog signals. They may do what they call a Flash-Cut to stay on Channel 2. I know the Same is true here in South GA on WALB they are broadcasting their Digital and Analog signal on Channel 10. WFXL on the other hand the are on channel 12 but you cant see their signal at this time. They may choose to stay on Channel 31

 

[J_Cordova]

Not sure how broadcasting on channel 39 can ever match the reach of channel 2 (54-ish MHz). That's some prime real estate I'm sorry to see them lose. Or am I missing something? Is the Willoughby tower one of the two at Shepherd's lane? (Something I should probably know but don't.)

WXIA did well getting channel 10 with their digital signal. I have trouble with WSB-DT and I have a decent VHF/UHF old style rotor antenna on the roof. Soon to have a new high band VHF and UHF antenna put atop about a 90' pine tree. Any antenna recommendations from any of you?

One thing that irritates me immensly: the secondary digital channels steal valuable bandwidth from the HD signals. Wish XIA would shut off their secondary channel for the Olympics and use the entire 19.2 mbps to broadcast NBC's HD signal. Some things look absolutely horrendous, including NBC's transition graphic to slo-mo replays, which is full of more than noticeable compression artifacts. I'll bet the 42mbps network feed to the locals looks beautiful, and we get the garbage that's squeezed down to what - 15 mbps or so? Arrrgh!

IMO we needed about twice the 19.2 for digital, and I've watched in disappointment for about 10 years as the new standards were developed and evolved down to what I consider below the minimum necessary bandwidth for even one single HD channel consuming the entire 19.2. Gone are the days when we can, with good equipment at home, receive something reasonably close to the originating transmission. Of course, the situation is worse with comcast and directv, where they decode already poor image quality, then re-encode at an even ridiculously lower bitrate. This compounding of compression artifacts if just horrible IMHO. Best HD signal in town by far is Peachtree TV's live broadcasts of the Braves, which use the entire 19.2. Gotta get it off-air, though.

Sorry for the multi-topic rant. I just discovered this site tonight and this is my first post. Great stuff.

 

[RichardWarner]

You have to remember that digital signals behave differently than analog.

The lower the channel number on analog systems, the further the signal travels and with less power required. It's why WSB TV channel 8 made the move to channel 2 in 1951: the improvement in signal was significant (particularly with the less capable receivers of the day).

Digital is different: the lower channels don't perform as well, but the station can fool digital TV sets into thinking the channel number is different, so a station operating on channel 39 can send a signal that makes the digital TV display channel 2. The station's branding will stay the same no matter what station it's on.

The question I had was, given that scenario --- why wouldn't WGCL begin branding itself as "Atlanta's channel 4?" In San Diego, the NBC station is on analog 39 but has branded itself in the past as NBC 7 because that's where the channel appears on cable systems. Presumably after switching to a digital signal, it could actually show up that way on TVs that use over-the-air reception.

 

[J_Cordova]

Thanks, Richard. I'll have to look into the signal propagation of "digital" signals, although any transmitted electromagnetic signal is analog due to laws of physics (at least that's what they taught me at Ga Tech). The digital signal would just be modulated onto the transmitted analog signal. I know about sporadic DX'ing of digital signals over hundreds of miles, but that's hit and miss and my guess due to atmospheric and other conditions. But -- I must be missing something and will do some investigation when I can.

Do you believe WSB-DT would boom into Macon and North Georgia like it did on analog channel 2 (will all those folks with high rotor antennas like my grandparents be able to pull in WSB-DT)? From what I know of wave propagation, no, but I'm more than open to being wrong (and hope I am).

Yes, a digital station can "mask" as any channel it choses to. I don't know the law, but if you're suggesting that WGCL brand as "Atlanta's Channel 4", I agree with you. (You could probably market WGCL better than they do!) -Jay

Oh, thanks for the info on the channel 8 to channel 2 change. I knew they switched way back when but never knew it was in '51.

 

[BarryATL]

If I remember correctly, channel 2 is not available for DTV under the new channel scheme. I read something about the frequency being too low and it causes some sort of propagation problem with the DTV signal. This is fuzzy memory, so if someone knows more, jump in.

 

[ssnake]

Low VHF channels (2-6) are disfavored for two reasons: (1) they are more susceptible to noise, and (2) good reception requires large antennas because of the longer wavelength.

Though DTV works with lower peak power levels than analog, the interference/impulse noise levels at channel 2 would cause a greater disruption to reception than to the analog.

 

[bpatrick]

It's legal for a station to brand itself by its cable
channel; WCNC/36 Charlotte has been calling itself
"NBC6" for years, because most cable systems in the
market carry the station on Channel 6. Likewise, WZVN/26
Fort Myers-Naples, FL, identifies itself as being on Channel 7
(which it is, on most cable systems); I just wonder if anyone
confuses it with WSVN Miami, on analog channel 7.

To add to Richard Warner's mention of WSB's moving from
Channel 8 to Channel 2, the story is this: The Atlanta Constitution
had the Channel 2 license and call letters WCON (which would have
put ABC on Channel 2 from the very beginning); the Journal had
WSB on Channel 8. WSB signed on in September 1948, and before
WCON could get on the air the Cox family, owners of the Journal/WSB,
bought the Constitution and WCON. Since duopolies weren't allowed
then, they sold WCON and got WSB moved to Channel 2. Channel 8
was sold to a group of broadcasters who put it on as WLTV in September
1951. Two years later, Channel 8 was reassigned to the University of
Georgia, and WLW-A (as it was known by then, owned by Crosley Broadcasting
of Cincinnati) was kicked upstairs to Channel 11. 11's pre-cable analog
reception problems are well-known to anyone who lived in their coverage
area between the '50s and the '70s.

Now the question is: is the shoe on the other foot? Is WXIA-DT going to
be more powerful than WSB-DT? That would be something to behold.

 

[Markxxx]

There are a few stations that will broadcast their DTV signals on channels 2-6.

A TV station can call itself anything it wants but it needs to identify itself once an hour by it's call letters. Stations now do this usually in very small type so you don't notice

 

[bpatrick]

And there will be stations broadcasting on Chs. 2-6
with all kinds of signal problems; ask someone in
Chicago who's watched WBBM (analog Ch. 2, digital
Ch. 3).

I wonder if WXIA will be able to continue calling itself
"11 Alive." "10 Alive" just doesn't roll off the tongue
quite right.

 

[jal41]

I wonder if WXIA will be able to continue calling itself
"11 Alive." "10 Alive" just doesn't roll off the tongue
quite right.

WXIA-DT's virtual channel will remain channel 11 after the transition, so the station will remain "11 Alive". WSB-DT's virtual channel will be 2, and so forth.

 

[2, 5 or 11]

Re: Should channel 2 Worry...No

WSB will do what it takes to stay at least 2 steps ahead of the market. When WAGA was making gains in the early to mid 80's, they began raiding Channel 5's talent pool. Most notably, news director Andy Fisher was hired away from TV-5. Some of WSB's production/promotions/programming folks originated at WAGA during that time.

As for digital signals on low band VHF, impulse noise is a huge issue. A simple flip of a light switch or lawn mower starting next door can create severe pixelation. The optimal position for digital is high band VHF and some really low U's. 13WMAZ Macon is using digital channel 4, which is low band VHF 66-72 Mhz at 7Kw. After the 2.17.09 cut-off, the station will return to 13 for its digital signal. Only 10-12% of the Macon market relies on OTA reception, which is about 20,000 homes needing an upgrade. WXIA has a fantastic digital signal on channel 10 but again your digital tuner will ID it, or PSIP it, as 11.1, 11.2 and so on. Stations transmit the Program and System Information Protocol in their 19 megabit datastream that shows your television the program guide information. IIRC, I thought the law indicated stations must continue to use their analog number when identifying themselves even after the changeover. This was to avoid even more confusion regarding the digital switchover. Even though WMAZ uses digital 4, they are still PSIP'd as 13.1 and WSB uses digital 39, they're PSIP'd as 2.1 and so on. WCTV Thomasville/Tallahassee doesn't even mention their channel number anymore. Their analog has been 6 since they signed on in 1955 but their elected digital channel is 46.

The real question is, with WXIA on 10, can some else in Atlanta claim the 11 that is being vacated in February? WPCH 17 and WPBA 30 have consecutive frequencies with their digital assignments, 20 and 21 respectively.

 

[ssnake]

Re: Should channel 2 Worry...No

The real question is, with WXIA on 10, can some else in Atlanta claim the 11 that is being vacated in February? WPCH 17 and WPBA 30 have consecutive frequencies with their digital assignments, 20 and 21 respectively.

WJSP-TV and WTVM in Columbus are both trying to get channel 11.

Actually, there are three consecutive signals in Atlanta - 19 (WGCL), 20 (WPCH), and 21 (WPBA).

 

[daryll]

I completely forgot about WGCL-DT on 19. Thanks for mentioning it. I've gotten WPCH's digital here in Jones County. It comes in pretty regularly with an antenna that's in the crawl space under my house. It's too hot to move it to the attic in summer.

I thought WTVM elected to return to 9 after the switch. Are they using 47 now for interim digital use?